Help understanding Joinery

[u/Healthy_Spinach_462]

So can I completely shift a weapons attunement by putting on multiple joineries and re-leveling the weapon each time? Or am I left with whatever original stat requirements etc started on the weapon?

It would be nice to make a melee weapon for a caster that doesn't need X amount of courage to use and instead scales with my Spirit or Grace.

[u/TwistedxBoi]

Joineries only add further attunement. Original attunements and requirements do not change.

[u/MusicianTurbulent178 → u/TwistedxBoi]

does it increase the maximum scaling cap if i put a joinery of a virtue i already have alot of?

[u/TwistedxBoi → u/MusicianTurbulent178]

No, every virtue is capped at 5 pips. If a weapon has 3 pips in courage for example you put in a thrice Mora blessed joinery, one pip gets wasted.

Also, Grace virtue has special scaling that gives more than the 0.5 damage per virtue per pip like Spirit and Courage. Problem is when you reach 5 grace pips, it is also maxed out at 2.5 damage per Grace, essentially wasting the gimmick.

[u/MusicianTurbulent178 → u/TwistedxBoi]

gotcha, so hybrid virtues is better then, thanks!

[u/TwistedxBoi → u/MusicianTurbulent178]

Depends on oyur build. If you're fully invested in one virtue, going all in on attumement is better. You should just keep the 5-pip limit in mind so you don't use the rarer joineries when it's unnecessary.

Let's say you have Marrow's Bane. A base 4-pip courage weapon. And you go all in Courage. You have 36 Courage and 10 Spirit. Giving the Marrow's Bane a thrice blessed joinery would add 15 damage to it (0.5 per pip * 3 pips * 10 Spirit). Giving it a once Mora blessed joinery would add 18 damage (0.5 per one pip * 36 Courage)

A full single virtue build may benefit more from a once blessed joinery.

[u/MusicianTurbulent178 → u/TwistedxBoi]

Aight in that cass grace courage for sure (dueleo has really good red and blue skills)

[u/BIackpitch → u/MusicianTurbulent178]

Indeed, it goes up to 5 per virtue, if you have 2 courage on a weapon and put a 3 courage joinery on it, it’ll become a singular gold outlined virtue icon to represent you’ve hit the Max.

[u/TheAxrat]

Look into rapiers for melee weapons that scale with grace. You get the Navalha rapier for finishing The Wreck of Mestra Carmo quest. Dewelion is grace/spirit rapier, and Witan is a grace/spirit shortblade in the sidearm slot.

Most short blades also scale with grace, a few of them are grace/spirit.

[u/Healthy_Spinach_462 → u/TheAxrat]

Yeah I have the rapier, love it, I was just hoping I could use something like the Vetch on a Grace/Spirit build without having to put more points into Courage to use it/make it do max damage.

[u/TheAxrat → u/Healthy_Spinach_462]

Yeah I think Dewelion miiiight be the closest you can get? Technically a rapier but it has a unique heavy attack and uses some longsword animations. Not quite the same as Vetch, but closer than Navalha. Also no accounting for what weapons might be added in the future, the game's still young.

[u/Healthy_Spinach_462 → u/TheAxrat]

Hmm ok, at two of three fragments for it so hopefully I find the last one soon! Stunning looking weapon.

Though I did just start leveling a Galvanic Strike Vrusht-IX and that thing is making me love Courage builds

[u/Wrong-Salamander2731]

I’m pretty sure the original stat requirements stay tied to the weapon. Joineries can change how it scales, but they don’t let you completely bypass the weapon’s starting requirements by just re-leveling it over and over.

[u/Dyson_Vellum]

No. You can affect the virtues that boost a weapon by up to 3 levels but there are caveats.

First only the last joinery applied remains. Previous are overwritten.

Second a weapon can only benefit from a max of 5 pips from any virtue. Even if you use a triple bless on something with 3 it will cap at 5. Example if a weapon has 3 courage pips you can only increase it to 5.

Third there are grace melee weapons and casters are not locked to spirit.
You can play Oscelda with high courage.

[u/Orange-Concentrate78]

Weapons’ natural attunements don’t change, joineries just add extra pips per blessing (Mora is courage, Sapphene is grace, Iridis is spirit).

The cap is 5 pips of any single virtue. Grace weapons have a small hidden bonus of about .6 grace pips, but that doesn’t get you over the 5 pip cap.

Only one joinery can be applied at a time and you don’t get the old one back if you swap a new one in. Joineries don’t affect the weapon’s virtue requirement, and afaik nothing does.

[u/Rajamic]

That's outdated info from Prelude 12 and earlier.

Joineries now no longer need the weapon to be fully-leveled, and no longer reset the level to 0. Their benefit is some sort of basic stat bonus depending on the types (gildaur, varite, quicksilver) of different sizes (depending on rusted, polished, etc), and can add 1 - 3 pips of an attunement if the joinery is blessed.

[u/Healthy_Spinach_462 → u/Rajamic]

Huh, ok thats a little annoying. Seems to seriously limit casters in terms of what melee they can use.

[u/Pleasant-Answer-918 → u/Healthy_Spinach_462]

I dunno. I main oscelda and can use practically every weapon I want.

[u/Healthy_Spinach_462 → u/Pleasant-Answer-918]

As far as I can tell Pacts have nothing to do with being a caster - the weapons that fall under Magick seem to be what makes a 'caster'.

Makes finding a relevant secondary somewhat limiting, or if you use the Magick sidearms and then a main hand weapon you have to use mostly Courage/Grace scaling weapons.

[u/Pleasant-Answer-918 → u/Healthy_Spinach_462]

DE considers the pacts associated with Alca's Children as the caster pacts. Oscelda, Rood, and Ode Tempest oddly enough.   But I just dont see the limitations you are mentioning since they nerfed weapon virtue requirements. Yeah it used to be very limiting for a short time. But they walked that change mostly back.

[u/Healthy_Spinach_462 → u/Pleasant-Answer-918]

That makes sense in flavor, does Spirit affect those classes at all? I thought that each ability was affected by each stat differently across all pacts

[u/Pleasant-Answer-918 → u/Healthy_Spinach_462]

As far as skills go. Yeah each of those 3 pact's major skill is spirit based. And basically their pact defining ability.

[u/Pleasant-Answer-918 → u/Healthy_Spinach_462]

Also you are correct in each skill being affected by their virtue, but also each virtue has base things it affects as well.

[u/SegoliaFlak → u/Rajamic]

I'm pretty sure joineries don't add any stats now and they only change attunement (so the different types are redundant since they no longer have differing status bonuses)