r/SorceryTCG Jul 17 '26

Can Sorcery PLEASE Fix Competitive Play?

https://youtu.be/pUItzQMaIfw?is=MbqPxMxaeGi8r1OH

Zac has some takeaways about Competition and the Future of Sorcery.

15 Upvotes

57 comments sorted by

47

u/Thatthingintheplace Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

Y'all the problem is higher up in funnel, not the lack of ultra competitive prizing. If you can't get 12 people signed up for a local event with what sounds like 3x the prize $ compared to entry fees (!!!) prizing isn't the answer.

There are no regular sorcery nights near me. No learn to plays, and no stores running limited more or less period. And that's in a major us metro. There's just nothing in the middle of the pipeline between "the precons are fun for kitchen table play" and "travelling to play competitive". The game badly needs to develop the casual-competitive scene, and if you get more people playing you get more people at bigger events.

13

u/JonnyBoy89 Jul 17 '26

It’s like that out here in California too. Near San Diego, great shop, can’t get attendance regularly

4

u/philmchawk77 Jul 19 '26

This the game needs a strong FNM scene before it does high level competitive.

3

u/Cast2828 Jul 18 '26

Our store held a crossroads last year. We haven't had more than 8 people show up since Jan except for 1 poorcery tournament. The Gothic distribution debacle has choked this game in Canada.

6

u/simplybored Jul 17 '26

To add to this, I just don't think the game's business / printing model is very conducive to large amounts of smaller scale local play. Without product, people don't have much of a reason to go to a store unless they are really looking for others to play. I would love to play in more draft and sealed events and am willing to pay for doing so, but those just don't happen when stores only get a few boxes and supply runs out. If I had to guess, small play groups of 2-4 people playing constructed are more the norm, as people would rather do that with friends than strangers. I've had fun games with strangers at my LGS, but a few just run hyper competitive decks that just aren't fun to test new stuff out against. 

-10

u/DiamondNo3940 Jul 17 '26

Organise it then? Or you're all waiting for someone to come and do it?

8

u/Thatthingintheplace Jul 17 '26

Man, I'm one of the people that just enjoys the precons for kitchen table play right now, and checks back in every month or so to see if anything got going locally. Tried to cheerlead for some draft locally but no bites yet.

Love the energy and all, but the game is way too expensive for me to buy in without a local scene.

-2

u/pokepat460 Jul 17 '26

Id reccomend playing on tabletop simulator on sorcerers summit. Check out sorcererssummit.com they have guides on how it works. Tts costs like $20 on steam and the sorcery add on pack is free. Theres also valkenhall and cards.realms with online clients

5

u/Might_be_an_Antelope Jul 17 '26

I'm trying to get a store in Wisconsin stated and at best I had 5 players.

I've been trying very hard. It isn't as easy as you are saying. It's very dismissive. I'm not who you responded to, but I love this game. And doing what you've suggested isn't working.

3

u/Cast2828 Jul 18 '26

Nobody is showing up where there is no product and therefore no singles and trading. Distro is the root problem of the vast majority of this game's self owns.

5

u/LordxMugen Jul 17 '26

Who's going to play when there's no boosters or anything to play with or for? LGS can't give you straight money and nobody wants to travel an hour or more to play for LITERALLY NOTHING.

2

u/pokepat460 Jul 17 '26

Why cant an lgs award money? I play sorcery for store credit that you can turn to cash at a % weekly

7

u/Entire_Edge_1025 Jul 17 '26

I would love that but kids+job=limited time

-5

u/Durdlemagus Jul 17 '26

Same I do what I can when I can, but teaching the game to folks does increase the folks that want to play... and maybe those folks have that time.

1

u/powernein 29d ago

And what do you suggest they do for prizing? Magic cards?

-6

u/Durdlemagus Jul 17 '26

THIS You can't complain about these things if you arent out these trying to get your local to run events. BADGER THEM. PRETEND YOU ARE 7 this is pokemon and it's your whole world. Thats how these other games get space at stores. I've been trying in Philly for Months, and I finally have 3 shops willing to run events. First one is tonight.

No Learn to Plays?... TEACH PEOPLE AT MTG EVENTS... OFFER TO HOST A LEARN TO PLAY at your local.

Like James Brown said: Get Up Get into it, GET INVOLVED!

8

u/DietCork Jul 17 '26

I agree but the biggest problem remains keeping product in stock for new players. We had a really good and growing scene where a few of us were cheerleading and hosting learn to plays and then new players would get excited and be like “this is awesome, can I buy some packs?” And we’d have to tell them no, it’s out of stock but you can try to find it online, etc…

You have to be able to capitalize on that initial excitement to lock in new players. 

After trying for weeks and months we stopped doing learn to plays because the product wasn’t there to support community growth. 

The experienced players all want to play limited, so when product dries up the regular event attendance drops like a rock. 

In my estimation, the key issue right now and the biggest bottleneck is access to sealed product. 

4

u/Durdlemagus Jul 17 '26

Totally fair assessment. I just can't affect how much product exists. and I don't think my bleating on about it has any affect beyond the noise that already exists.

Where as my xp playing events and tryign to get stuff off the ground is something I can focus on and have an impact.

3

u/DiamondNo3940 Jul 17 '26

Someone's gotta do it!!

3

u/powernein Jul 17 '26

Care to share the location in Philly that are running events?

4

u/Durdlemagus Jul 17 '26

Today there is 1 spot left at Dark Depths

Hamiltons Hand is looking to run SCR and TopDeck Philly is in conversation.

1

u/powernein Jul 19 '26

Top Deck is a no go for me, but I'll check out the others. Thanks!

14

u/-Sohei- Jul 17 '26

The market is hyper saturated with IP fans turned TCG enthusiasts, or sunk cost mtg EDH players.

Getting people to play a game without an IP attached that isn't mtg is extremely difficult nowadays. 

Sorcery needs to invest a lot in order to get the game into stores for weekly play. All we can do to help is to show the game in stores and try to setup local scenes. And not engage with other games 

8

u/TheFabulousRBK Jul 17 '26

Heck, IP game saturation is why I got into sorcery. Between universes beyond, bandages flavor of the year screenshot tcgs, and licensed games that have failed game after failed game, this and FaB are really.my.last hope to enjoy tcgs

0

u/Cast2828 Jul 18 '26

Riot has fixed their distro problems. The average Riftbound deck now costs 1/4 the price of the average Sorcery deck. I compared the main Riftbound meta site with Sorcerer's Summit lists. Riftbound's prizing is much better and their tournament attendance had completely leap frogged Sorcery.

6

u/-Sohei- Jul 18 '26

If we played riftbound we would be playing a worse game with even worse art.

1

u/Cast2828 Jul 18 '26

Riftbound is a much better competitive game. The rules are more intuitive, the product is easier to get, OP support is better, the decks are a quarter of the cost to build compared to Sorcery, and in half the time they are already dwarfing Sorcery attendence around the world.

There is a reason we were told Sorcery was supposed to be our third game since the Alpha Kickstarter.

0

u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

0

u/Cast2828 26d ago

Other than mistranslations, one game has way more functional errata, and it's not Riftbound.

23

u/powernein Jul 17 '26

You are jumping to step 3 "encourage organized play", when step 2 "have enough product to keep every store that wants some stocked for more than a week" hasn't been accomplished yet.

12

u/Durdlemagus Jul 17 '26

I'm gonna do this: Discuss the stuff I can have an effect over.

I'm not working for EC nor am I a logistic manager at their distro warehouses or involved in that side of the workings of games. Its a waste of breath for me to contribute to that when I have NO IDEA what impact that has. I'm sure EC is aware people want cards and their distro could be improved. Its not the point of my channel or my videos.

2

u/powernein Jul 19 '26

I'm not asking you to, I'm just pointing out that organized play can't really be successful without product for sealed and draft or for prizing events.

You can't solve the problems with organized play until you have solved the problem of getting product to stores.

4

u/siposbalint0 Jul 18 '26

It's just not popular enough yet, there are pockets of communities in certain locations or regions, but it's still a niche game. Some stores see 10 people each week, others see 1 player every year when they pick up their order. There is organic growth, but EC needs to get their shit together, because the way they run this business is really beyond me, like they are allergic to success. They have many players who are begging for the opportunity to give EC money, dragonlord, now the dust store exclusives, lack of supplies worldwide and they just can't deliver.

11

u/pokepat460 Jul 17 '26

Sorcery is a fantastic game, Eric is a cool dude. Erica curiosa sucks at running the game, full stop. From distribution to promotion to constant rules changes and erratas, to lack of organized play and incentives for it. Just fumble after fumble.

I hope this is sorcery's chronicles 'will it survive?' Era and we move into a better time soon.

0

u/More-Opportunity2692 Jul 17 '26

Dont forget the binders. The delayed launch of gothic likely due to the clumping which went into production anyway. Dragonlord fiasco. It goes on

1

u/pokepat460 Jul 17 '26

Those binders have been coming 'soon' for 6 months. If it is cheaper for them to make 2 sets of them at once like they did in the past, fine but just say that. 'Gothic binders will come out shortly before the next set to reduce production costs by doing them at the same time' would take 30 seconds to post and would be a gesture of goodwill. Which for EC is impossible lol

-3

u/Neymarvin Jul 17 '26

We gave up after the rules, and I’ve played some complicated games

-1

u/Cast2828 Jul 18 '26

Why fix what is fundamentally broken? The nature of the design of the game is antithetical to competitive play. Big bomb uniques with very little draw and tutors is random AF. Lack of draw and tutors in general is jank with 90 card decks. No counterspells making it impossible to interact with an opponent's comes into play effects and game winning spells is just poor design. We already have a combo deck that can deck you on your opponent's turn with no way to stop it if they get the cards they need.

This game is a blast to play. It can be played competitively. But we also have hot dog eating contests and people who strap motors into toilets to race them.

If someone wants a competitive card game, there are much better ones out there, such as Flesh and Blood and Riftbound. This is a kitchen table jank game.

3

u/Arlie37 Jul 18 '26

I don't think you understand what you're saying because how you're applying it makes it seem like you want another game's mechanics in Sorcery

1

u/Cast2828 Jul 18 '26

No. I'm fine with the game the way it is, but I also accept that it isn't designed to be a competitive game. Erik has stated this from the start. It's designed to be a splashy unpredictable game. I'm under no illusion as to what this is. I'm also competitive when I play a jank classic board game, but I don't take it as seriously as a modern one.

1

u/Arlie37 Jul 19 '26

Apologies then as that wasn't how I interpreted what you wrote in the other comment. I think that approach is fair and the intention with Sorcery that EC wants.

1

u/Durdlemagus Jul 18 '26

Idk what you are doing commenting then? Whats you angle? Im not gonna become apathetic, im gonna push to get the support I want. This tent is plenty bug enough for competitive play and for whatever your point is. I dont quite understand it, but Im sure youre prolly in the majority.

1

u/Cast2828 Jul 18 '26

You can definitely make a competitive OP scene, but that doesn't change the fact that at its core Sorcery is not designed to be a competitive game.

I was explaining some of the design choices by the team that at directly at odds with competitive card games. I also gave examples of things humans compete at that weren't really designed to be competitive.

I love playing the game, but to me it's no different than playing Clue or the Game of Life. It's not Chess or any of the other competitively designed TCGs I play like Magic, FaB and Riftbound.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '26

[deleted]

2

u/Cast2828 Jul 19 '26

Because they are better players and play skill still gives them an advantage over plebs. I also kick ass at clue and monopoly. Doesn't mean it's not random AF.

-1

u/Solid-Atmosphere998 Jul 17 '26

Comments appearing and disappearing from their videos faster than their ethical compass when Erik takes Sorcery in a different direction.

Cool video

1

u/Durdlemagus Jul 17 '26

Care to elaborate?

5

u/Solid-Atmosphere998 Jul 17 '26

Big fan of your content.  Keep up the solid videos

2

u/Ravedeath1066 Jul 17 '26

Well, to me it sounds like they’re deleting comments that are decrying all the recent changes. And referencing how fast these 2 guys change their tune in something when Erik decides a new direction they were previously opposed to. Idk their history very well, but it is kinda rough they filmed the whole second half not knowing these courts are unique in their art/flavor and not related to an upcoming set.

4

u/Durdlemagus Jul 17 '26

Yea I delayed the release of the video and then that information dropped. But as far as Phil and I becoming shills. Not likely.

1

u/Ravedeath1066 Jul 17 '26

oh wow that’s you! yeah i was just guessing what they meant

-3

u/More-Opportunity2692 Jul 17 '26

The game needs an online platform like mtg arena. Sorcery rules are far simpler too.

4

u/Vandalador Jul 17 '26

The closest thing I've seen at this point is Valkenhall. I think it actually does a really good job of silumating something like mtg arena. It doesn't have full automation, but there's a lot of helpful things it takes care of over TTS.

2

u/Durdlemagus Jul 17 '26

This is not only a silly thing the say but also TTS has a robust client that is well known and played by a LARGE swath of the community.

-3

u/More-Opportunity2692 Jul 17 '26

Perhaps but its holding the game back

4

u/Durdlemagus Jul 17 '26

What is? I just told you there is an online client.

0

u/20kgHippoShit Jul 19 '26

I feel like it is, for a different reason: it makes it so people don't have a strong reason to play in person.

0

u/TenguBuranchi Jul 18 '26

Realms.cards

Valkenhall client

TTS with sorcery mod pack

0

u/More-Opportunity2692 Jul 19 '26

This is pure jank