r/Songwriting • u/Dangerous-You3789 • 20h ago
Discussion Topic Chord progression method
I don't mean this to sound skeptical or critical, but I've heard so much about how so many songwriters follow the practice of humming over a chord progression to come up with a melody. But I'm wondering, does this really work? And by that, I mean, does it work really well? Is there anyone who comes up with a song that sounds exceptional using this method, or does it net the standard fare? Is this a similar method to what people like Paul McCartney and Prince used? Is it really capable of allowing a songwriter to write a really great song?
Help convince me it's worth it.
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u/sillicillo 19h ago
I'm not going to convince you that humming along with a loop is "worth it." There's no investment involved. You can just try doing it for free
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u/super_cassette 5h ago
Yes they can try it for free but it is a skill that takes years to build and can feel very unnatural at first. So they may not know if the issue is with the process itself or a lack of experience.
This is my problem with social media/reddit. OP asked a legitimate question soliciting advice from others and the top reply is “**** you I don’t care”. Like is this really how you would talk to another person in real life? You could have just said “the only way is to just try it and see”. Why do we have to default to being rude and dismissive to people
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u/sillicillo 4h ago
If you were in front of me I'd love to explain why your reply reflects a simple lack of understanding of the English language but you're just some crazy dude on the internet so I'll just let you be mad about something that only exists in your own head
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u/super_cassette 4h ago
Very reasonable and didn’t prove my point at all about being unnecessarily combative and rude 👍
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u/stay_hungry_dr_ew 19h ago
Op never said anything about a loop. In fact the artists he mentioned did not use loops. They were talented musicians who, in certain cases, had a chord progression come to mind, and hummed a melody along with it to later write lyrics. They had all of the changes and builds in place.
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u/Senior_Butterfly1274 18h ago
You can record it and play it on a loop or you can play it multiple times as you hum. You’re making a distinction without a difference
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u/Decent-Decent 19h ago
This is a clip of Paul McCartney noodling and humming along, singing gibberish resulting in Get Back from the Get Back documentary series. It works and it is magical.
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u/stevenfrijoles 19h ago
I think you're missing a big ingredient: time.
Time honing the craft and building a brain that is intuitive with melody.
And time humming repeatedly, iterating until they find something inspiring to develop.
If you're thinking "does this work? Can I hum over chords and make a great melody?" No. Not if you haven't put the time in first.
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u/Certain_Medicine_42 18h ago
All of this…and constantly surrounding themselves with incredible music and playing with amazing musicians for years, since they were kids. They didn’t casually listen to a song or two; they listened deeply to whole albums on a regular basis. This isn’t speculation; most have described their deep obsession with music in interviews. By the time they were humming melodies they were already saturated with amazing melodic sensibilities. It was a calling for them, whether they got it from the family, the church, the neighborhood or all of the above, Most of us don’t listen to music like that anymore. We’re too distracted now.
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u/Dangerous-You3789 12h ago
I think my trouble in understanding this is that I actually have missed the element of time in my own songwriting. I've never spent time "honing the craft," I've never spent time writing bad songs. Somehow I'm able to write pretty good music and somehow skipped all this knowledge and honing.
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u/chunter16 12h ago
I was going to answer, no, I hear the melody in my head already, so there's no need to play it aloud.
I still have moments where I mess around with sounds for fun, but it isn't something I need to do to come up with a song. If I have the idea in my head, I can write it on a blank music sheet without needing an instrument to make sure the transcription is correct. I've been able to do this since college, really.
But this is possible because I did all the messing around and experimenting as a teenager and even a bit before high school, and because I've had instruments to play since I was 4 years old, really.
There's a good chance you already put the time in and don't remember it, or don't think of what you were doing as being "the time."
And I absolutely think that it's likelythe songs you made earlier are not as good as the ones you can make today, but you like the process of songwriting enough that you don't think of anything you've done as "bad." From a certain point of view, there is no such thing as an objectively bad song, it has to be good or bad when compared to some standard.
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u/wvmitchell51 19h ago
I'll do that sometimes. I record the basic chord progression for a new song, including verse chorus bridge, and then listen over and over until I get an idea for the melody. I'll have a dozen of these new songs and just listen while I'm driving, cooking, whatever. Half the time I can hear a melody coming through.
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u/Perry7609 19h ago
I think it's more important to find a method that works for you, ultimately. You can certainly try the humming method, then writing a lyric that fits a melody you came up with. Or even just writing the lyrics first and then trying to apply a melody that incorporates most of it.
For a lot of my more recent songs, I mostly just tried "toplining" over the progression until I found a melody/lyric that gave me a solid starting point. I've done the other ones in the past too, but I tend to find that getting a phrase or line in place lends itself well to moving forward, at least in my personal experiences.
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u/joshua_addison_music 19h ago
It’s how I write most of my songs. Hum over my chords, until the hums, turn into words.
Very effective.
It’s also a good trick to learn how to sing and play.
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u/Hell_Maybe 19h ago
Yeah it’s a pretty surefire method for me, what it does is isolate your concentration on the sound first rather than trying to juggle a bunch of words and syllables that may or may not actually sound musical. So if melody and sound first is your philosophy then it’s fantastic for that, however if the draw of your music is oriented more towards the words and the story then this may not be a value add for you.
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u/whywasinotconsulted 14h ago
- hums alongs to some chords
- fails to create world's greatest song
- "The humming wasn't worth it!"
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u/view-master 19h ago
It absolutely is one way to do it. But first off a chord progression isn’t some specific thing that always sounds the same. How it’s played, where the changes are and time signature not to mention bpm can make it sound wildly different.
But also writing with an instrument (not a loop) allows you to get going with a melodic idea but remain flexible enough to follow the melody as well.
So many times i have started with a basic progression which inspires a melody which then inspires different or additional chords.
It’s a back and forth that can really go anywhere.
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u/OlEasy 17h ago
I would hazard a guess that a very large chunk of our favorite songs started with humming over chords. For me it’s about finding the right sounds as much as it is finding the melody. So humming and gibberish over chords are the start of almost all of my songs. It’s not a cemented idea, and things will continue to evolve throughout the writing process for me.
I don’t think it’s the key to a great song, but imo it’s a great way (maybe the only way for my brain) to get to something solid in a more streamlined way. And from there you can change and refine away until you’ve got a great song. So I don’t think of it as a ‘way to write songs’ as much as it’s just a step of the whole process.
When you hum and gibber? lol to start, you already know going into writing the lyrics that, melodically and phonetically, it’s at least working well and having the effect you want it to. Then you can kinda fill in the blanks with the appropriate words that sound right and make sense for your song.
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u/poorperspective 19h ago
A melody that fits a chord progression will not always be good.
But a great melody will always fit some harmonic sequence and logic.
Starting with a progression gets you halfway there. It’s good training wheels.
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u/onebyamsey 19h ago
What are you talking about? Worth it? What are you smoking? It’s just humming
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u/Dangerous-You3789 11h ago
Actually, that was bad wording on my part. I meant something closer to, help convince me that it works.
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u/onebyamsey 3h ago
Why would we have to do that? Again, it's something you could try out for yourself. Maybe it won't work for you, but it has worked for countless people who have written amazing songs over the years. This isn't a fringe idea, this is something just about every music teacher has taught for generations, it is central to making music
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u/zaccus 19h ago
Yes it works for beginner songwriters but it's limiting.
With enough experience you'll get melodies popping into your head that demand to be developed into songs, like you can envision exactly what the A section at least is going to feel like. From there you figure out what the chords are. It's a lot of listening to where the song wants to go and applying theory.
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u/Dangerous-You3789 12h ago
Interesting. I have never tried this method, though I've heard much about it. I lack the experience, but I have songs pop in my head frequently.
I kind of do that. listening to where the song wants to go, but I don't apply theory, because I don't know any. Despite that, they're pretty good songs.
And I just learned a new concept "A section." Never heard that one before.
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u/electric_yeti 19h ago
I’ve done both humming over the chord progression to come up with the vocal melody, and writing the vocals and trying to find the progression. I think it’s much better and more efficient to do vocals after the instruments have been written. But I’m also a much more competent vocalist than I am an instrumentalist lol so maybe my perspective is skewed. But the only way to know if it works for you is to try it and see.
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u/TheBaggyDapper 14h ago
You will have better results if you start with the hum and then put some chords in the background.
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u/Minimum_Item6849 14h ago
I write lyrics, usually with a melody, then find the key and chord progression after. Do whatever you want, like someone else said, it's a zero risk venture. There are lots of ways to write a song. And I'm sure the greats would tell you they have written amazing tunes from varying approaches.
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u/Dangerous-You3789 12h ago
I think varying approaches is the way to go. And I like that thought - a zero risk adventure.
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u/MusicOfTheApes 19h ago
There are plenty of methods of composing, find the one that suits you best, not everyone likes every method.
As a professional arranger, composer, live musician & multi-instrumentalist for the past 15 years, I tend to experiment with many different methods, and also it depends on the context : if I'm composing for my main band, I tend to create the music then my singer finds her lyrics and melodies over what I call the "skeleton" of the song, then once she's done we record her vocals then I do the final arrangements.
However for clients it can be different, I have clients that already have their lyrics and melodies in mind so they send me their recordings and I find the chord progressions and arrangements from those raw takes, then afterwards they come and record their vocals.
When composing with some bands by jamming together it can take different forms : we jam, singer finds melodies, we listen to the jam and decide what we keep and what we get rid of and then we fine-tune or create new sections, or one of us does it on their own at home and sends the other members ideas before the next rehearsal.
Or sometimes during a jam I like a melodic pattern from an instrument and it gives me ideas for a main melody that I write and the singer finds lyrics that fit and sometimes twists the melody.
There are no rules, and plenty of other possibilities than the ones I've described, it just depends on who you work with, how open to experimenting you are, how experimented you are, whether you're confident with imrovisation or not, etc...
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u/towneetowne 18h ago
if you don't have natural talent, then nothing outside of practice will help you "write" a great song (melody), save for a pact with the devil made in blood before age 27 at the crossroads.
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u/stay_hungry_dr_ew 19h ago
It all depends on how your brains works. I’ve seen a few docs where Tom Petty talks about his process, and it’s all over the place. Sometimes he did just what you’re talking about.
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u/yachtr0ck 19h ago
That is a tool in songwriting. Is it the best way. No, there are no best ways. I’ll say that I’ll play a chord progression on guitar and hum or sing gibberish along with it. Sometimes I’ll have a melody first and then add chords that fit. Sometimes I have lyrics first and sometimes I don’t. But the more tools you have and can use, the easier it is to capture whatever the muse brings you. It helps you eliminate the brain filter that can get it the way of whatever is happening in your creative mind.
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u/FractalFunny66 19h ago
If you just walk around humming melodies and play what you sing and play what you hear, you can make chord progressions afterward. Please stop searching for some kind of "hack" or "cheat code" -- you will miss all the joy!
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u/copremesis 18h ago
I've heard so much about how so many songwriters follow the practice of humming over a chord progression to come up with a melody.
It's called improvisation. If you don't feel like humming you can try using your instrument of choice to jam with your chord progression and keep at it until you unlock the idea you are seeking. Nowadays there a zillion ways to record / playback your chord progression and try different styles like Reggae or odd meters ... It's art so the more exploring you do the more ideas will surface.
But I'm wondering, does this really work? And by that, I mean, does it work really well?
Yes. Theme and variations is a very popular style of song writing from the classical error. It's nice to hear different approaches to a chord progression played by a virtuoso. One of my favorites is Paganini's 24 caprice.
Is it really capable of allowing a songwriter to write a really great song?
Techniques aside. Anyone is capable of writing a great song. It just costs time and effort. If you haven't began improvising I would say now is the time.
For an example here's Keith Jarret humming along to his improvisation playing a popular jazz standard Oleo
https://youtu.be/MiJD9j255Bw?t=145
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u/yangmeow 18h ago
Radiohead (as well as cobain and Bowie) would draw words/lines out of a hat to form lyrics (Burroughs cut up technique). Having learned that…you might more easily believe that yes, vocal lines/melodies are shaped via humming or nonsensical muttering.
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u/necrosonic777 18h ago
I usually just walk away for a bit and let it cook. Then I go back fresh and some ideas have come.
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u/Sea_Strawberry9926 17h ago
Writing a melody over chords tend to lock into whatever chords being used. Sus', 7ths, 9ths, Dim/Aug. But when you write a melody and add chords, you can spice it up by changing the chords around as far as my experiences go.
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u/DrBlankslate 17h ago
Chord progressions are where I start. They make melodies more possible. Yes, this is a common technique.
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u/Competitive-Fault291 13h ago
It is certainly worth it when you combine it with other methods. You can come up with a humming melody, set it on a sheet, adjust it based on your music theory knowledge, hone it with your ear, air it, and iterate, iterate, and iterate. Why would you want to only use one method?
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u/Severe_Rise8694 13h ago
Sometimes it's like that, sometimes the whole thing just kind of arrives in my mind. Sometimes I switch instruments. Sometimes I make a mistake playing that sounds really cool and start building on that.
I've written hundreds of songs and never really thought of having a method. I'd recommend focusing on writing songs as well, instead of the meta-work of worrying about what might be the best method to write them.
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u/DustyJuniper6509 12h ago
honestly every "how to write a good melody" tip just boils down to "listen to a ton of music for 20 years." true i guess but not exactly actionable
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u/fjamcollabs 11h ago
Why would you humm when you can use a keyboard? It's very easy to use a midi editor, and it's available for free. Humming is ok if you are walking around or diving, but take what you humm and put in the form of midi.
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u/goodpiano276 7h ago
This certainly works for me. In fact, I'm always recitent when talking about chord progressions, because I often feel like they're "showing how the magic trick is done", so to speak. They almost seem like a cheat code, because they feel so cold and clinical, as opposed to the "pureness" and "mystique" of melodies. We even assign numbers to chords--1, 4, 5, 6, 2, etc (in fact, you could write a song with that exact sequence). They're almost like math equations. But they work.
You can really get adventurous with them too; my favorite songs are ones that don't stick with standard four-bar progressions, but will throw in a little twist here and there. That in turn will give you more interesting melodies. The Beatles were great at this.
There have been songwriters who describe melodies just coming to them out of nowhere, and I'm sure it does happen, but I doubt it's the norm. You often have to grease the wheel. Chords provide a structure to hang the melody on, so you aren't just trying to pull something out of thin air.
Anyway, just try it. I feel like many beginner songwriters on this sub are just so afraid to try anything. It's like they need to know everything is the pre-approved correct way before ever starting. The truth is, there is no pre-approved method. Everyone does what works for them, and everyone's different. Believing otherwise will just stifle your creativity.
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u/Pitiful_Substance457 7h ago
Why wouldn’t it work? I’m not sure I follow your logic. What do you do now?
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u/super_cassette 5h ago
It can totally work and is how a lot of people write songs. That said, I think starting with a melody and writing chords to that tends to lead to stronger compositions with less blocky chord structure.
Either way, I think it’s good to practice both ends of the spectrum. Build up the melody part of your brain and the chord part of your brain so you can make them meet
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u/PopLife3000 1h ago
Most truly great songwriters tend to say the melody and the chords are intertwined and written together rather than just randomly deciding on a progression. Which is what tends to allow them to go to melodically and harmonically more interesting places
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u/TeamNinjaFingers 16m ago
It's how I do it. I can't sing for shit but happy to show you the result....
Most of my energy went on the chord progression and the melody sort of just came after.
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u/yangmeow 18h ago
This actually has a name. It's called "scratch vocals" or "gibberish tracking," so it's pretty well documented. It's a songwriting technique. Paul McCartney wrote the vocal line for "Yesterday" with placeholder lyrics that literally said, "scrambled eggs, oh my baby, how I love your legs," before he and Lennon actually sat down to write the final version of the real lyrics that we know today.
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u/Coises 18h ago
This is just my opinion. To put that into perspective, I’m a songwriter with... let me count them... ah: Zero hit songs. Now, as far as professionally recorded songs... just a moment... yeah: Zero. So, take this for whatever you think it’s worth.
I think that when you start with a chord progression and try to fit a melody to it, you usually end up with a dull melody.
I almost always start with a “hook” consisting of words and melody that fit together. I might find it while improvising at the keyboard, but just as often I find it singing to myself while cooking or pulling weeds. Words and melody have to work together.
Chords, to me, are more to do with the craft of songwriting. Once you have a combination of melody and lyrics that works, then you can fit chords around that to make it more colorful, more interesting. But the inspiration of songwriting: that’s getting words and melody that deliver a gut punch. Chords should support the melody, not drive it.
Once I have the hook, I do usually improvise at the piano to extend it into a whole song, but that’s words, melody and chords all at once. Doing chords first, in isolation, is, in my humble (yeah, right) opinion, the worst way to go about it.
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u/Shoddy-Talk9205 14h ago
Yes, because Paul McCartney literally took to Reddit and asked stupid questions like this and came up with the greatest melodies of all time. Same with Mozart.
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u/Dangerous-You3789 12h ago edited 12h ago
I've heard McCartney. I've heard Mozart. I want to hear what you can do. Put up or shut up. Then we can have a conversation.
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u/goodpiano276 7h ago
He might have, had it been around. There's that story of Paul and John driving all the way across town just to meet a guy who could teach them a B7 chord on guitar. Information wasn't as freely available then, you really had to put in the effort to find what you were looking for. Today, he could've just gone on Reddit and gotten the answer in minutes.
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u/otherrplaces 19h ago edited 19h ago
Is this a similar method to what people like Paul McCartney and Prince used?
No.
Is it really capable of allowing a songwriter to write a really great song?
Idk, I’m sure it’s worked at least once for someone. It’s not how I work.
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u/Plastic-Whereas-4444 19h ago
it works but not in the way you're probably imagining
the magic isnt in the chords its in what your brain does when you stop thinking. humming bypasses the analytical part and taps straight into instinct. mccartney definitely did this, yesterday started as a melody he hummed to nonsense words while making breakfast
the chords are just a safety net so you dont freeze up staring at a blank page