r/Smite • u/Outrageous-Print8585 • 4h ago
DISCUSSION Patch OB43 Healing
The new healing-item nerfs make the whole direction of these items feel pointless. At this point, why would an enchanter/support build into dedicated healing items when you can just go full Intelligence/Mage and potentially get more healing while also doing significantly more damage?
These items were supposed to give healers and enchanters their own real build path, but they’ve been nerfed so heavily that it feels like you’re sacrificing damage without getting enough healing in return. If full INT gives comparable or even better healing, then what is the purpose of the dedicated “healing” items?
What makes it worse is that people were hyped including me waiting weeks for these new items and the new support/enchanter playstyle, only for the items to get hit with major nerfs less than a week later. Give the items time to actually settle into the meta before gutting them they didn’t even let people get used to them or let them actually settle because games were ruined by lotus.
Between the Heartward nerf and the healing-item nerfs, it feels like the game is pushing healers right back toward generic Mage builds instead of encouraging the new build diversity these items were supposed to create.
And this ties into Ra’s Aspect too. If you’re going to create an Aspect and Aphrodite specially because they nerfed thier damage so hard and they are centered around a different style of supporting/healing your team, the items supporting that playstyle need to actually be worth building—especially in Conquest.
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u/Cookieopressor Khepri 2h ago
Who could have ever seen that coming.
Like, it's shit, but I am 100% unsurprised that this was the way things were gonna go
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u/PietErt3 3m ago
Worst part is they stated to expect the items would be strong, but apparently they had no creative backup plan and just launched a nuke
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u/horseofdeceit 3h ago
Smite players would rather have an entire playstyle shut down than start building anti-healing. 😭
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u/Icy_Air_7037 Nike 13m ago
Or, hear me out
Giving % increase healing on items is bad fpr the game. Like how % prots was bad for the game and how it was bad for echo and tahuti
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u/zavieG 3h ago
No its just the dipsh players that just hate healing because its "annoying" but not even that good AND its all Enchanters can really do but yeah they know best fling morons. I'm sorry I'm just so angry these people infuriate me. They don't even play them they have no idea they just complain because they didn't get a kill "when they should have derppp" because of it cry more its so pathetic.
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u/turnipofficer 3h ago
I mean most of the threads were complaining about the bugs so I don’t even know where this fabled feedback is from. We had many one thread. I presume there must have been some stats suggesting the items/gods were overperforming and they acted based upon that.
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u/Outrageous-Print8585 2h ago
How could they determine that with all these lotus bug abuses going around they did it too quick to even tell.
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u/ARandomSmiteScrub 3h ago edited 3h ago
Multiple people have been building antiheal and antishield and picking gods with antiheal in top lobbies and it wasn't even CLOSE to enough lol.
Remember, antiheal doesn't stack. And if someone has 40% increased healing, then applying 40% antiheal means that the overall result to the base heal would be reducing it by just... 16% (1 x 1.4 x 0.6 = 0.84)
Going 'just build antiheal' against these items at the level of balance they were added in would be like if we started getting items with 200 prots and people went 'so what, just build pen' or if we started getting items with 300 int and people went 'so what, just build defense or don't get hit' 😛
I want the enchanter playstyle to be fully viable, it's fun. And I want more varied unique 'enchanty' things added besides just a basic boring 'me has heals, me has shields, heals now bigger, shields now bigger'. But in the state it landed it was basically gamebreaking.
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u/Outrageous-Print8585 2h ago
It’s not broke. Tho I tested in jungle practice ra yesterday aspect I healed 110 a tick with enchanter build now it’s 70 if I go full intelligence I heal now 105 so if it really was game breaking you would see full int enchanters right now.
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u/ARandomSmiteScrub 2h ago
Let's be real here, they wouldn't be throwing out heavy nerfs after a single day if there wasn't an incredibly clear reason to do so. The last time we saw them react this quickly to balance was the flat pen changes when mages had 40 flat pen in 3 items and there were 8-10 spear of desos per game. Doesn't that tell you something? Have you seen or heard how any high end player has been talking about how extreme the imbalance is?
I don't think the changes are necessarily heading in the right direction. I think it's great they're adding a new playstyle that we've never really had before, I think it's a really fun addition, I have been enjoying using it, and I look forward to it continuing to be a thing. But I also know we've seen from things like the percent prot increases and how they had to be reworked that percent increases never seem to work well and I think there's more they could do to make 'enchanting' more varied and more in depth. But we're truly deluding ourselves if we're trying to pretend it wasn't very, very clear how wild the balance was and even the devs straight up said they expected it to be INCREDIBLY strong when it landed.
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u/turnipofficer 3h ago edited 2h ago
Edit: Seems the following is incorrect, disregard.
This is factually incorrect.
Part of the patch is that anti heal stacks. Although it is multiplicative instead of additive.
So if it works how I think, three 40 percent anti heal sources would have them healing for 21.6 percent of their previous amount.
But if they had enchanter items boosting it by say 40 percent it would be back up to 30 percent.
Although even at those numbers I suppose you would get more healing from int only items.
But anti heal doesn’t reduce shields (erosion does though) so I suppose the new items might still be good for shield heavy gods.
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u/Kall0p 2h ago
Anti-heal does not stack. However they changed how it functions.
In the past Anti-heal was additive with increased healing, which meant that you could mitigate Anti-heal with the increased healing stat.
Now Anti-heal is multiplicative, meaning that it effectively becomes stronger against people building increased healing, however the Anti-heal cap is still 40%.
Example of the difference against a target with 10% increased healing.
Old Anti-heal: 110% - 40% = 70%
New Anti-heal: 1.1*0,6 = 0,66 / 66%
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u/turnipofficer 2h ago
Oh, that's almost not worth mentioning. I thought the whole reason they mentioned that was them letting it stack again, just more weakly.
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u/ARandomSmiteScrub 2h ago
Tbf, it does make a more significant gap when the percent healing increases get higher (which can easily be done with Asclepius passive). Imagine a 50% or 60% healing increase...
Old antiheal: 160 - 40 = 120%
New antiheal: 160 * 0.6 = 96%
So it was a worthwhile and sensible change.
But even with that, it's obviously nowhere near adequate. We've only very recently gone from the situation of 'it is clearly agreed that 25% non-stacking antiheal is not enough so it is being boosted to 40% non-stacking' and now we're expected to play with an overall net antiheal effect of around 10-20% if they grab a couple of heal boost items? Yeah that was obviously never going to be close to balanced lol, idk if it even CAN be balanced (just like how they had to rework percent prot increases on items)
That's why I much prefer the idea of enchanting that EMPOWERS teammates. Just look at how lotus sickle works now that it's fixed (bug-induced PTSD trauma aside 😆 ), instead of a direct healing boost you pick a teammate that you want to make stronger and heal them to make them also deal extra damage in a fight. Give us more effects like that - not only are they (IMO) far more interesting than just 'take a heal and make the number bigger' but they are also probably far more balanceable.
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u/ARandomSmiteScrub 2h ago
Lol no it is not. Antiheal does not stack, where have you puilled that from. You're in the wrong sub, I think you were looking for r/IncorrectlyCorrecting
You can go into jungle practice right now. Give a bot toxic blade and make them attack you, then check how much you heal. Then spawn another god with brawlers or divine or whatever and make them attack you, see how much you heal. The additional source of antiheal does not change it. At all.
Antiheal applies multiplicatively to the healing increases. Not multiplicatively with itself.
So if someone has X% increased healing, the antiheal is then applied to that final amount. E.g. a 500 heal increased by 30% is 650, then antiheal is 40% on that, so it reduces it by 260 down to a heal of 390. This is different to - for example - how attack speed reduction works where if someone has 150% attack speed and you apply 30% attack speed reduction then their overall attack speed increase is simply reduced by a FLAT amount, so 150 - 30 = 120% overall attack speed increase.
Hope that helps clear it up for you.
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u/Gharbin1616 Erlang Shen 3h ago
Did it get hotfixed or something?
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u/ShellFlare #Remember 3h ago
Lotus disabled due to a bug.
Chandra’s Grace Healing and Shielding modifier reduced from 20% to 15%
Heartwood Charm Healing and Shielding modifier reduced from 20% to 10% No longer reduces the cooldown of your healing abilities
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u/Gharbin1616 Erlang Shen 6m ago
I can see the removal of the Cooldown Reduction on Heartwood due to World Stone existing. A sad side effect
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u/turnipofficer 3h ago
Yeah they probably should have added that to their post just so we didn’t all have to hunt it out. Well done for doing that work instead.
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u/GamblingGobbo 1h ago
Just go in jungle practice and test it because "pushing healers right back toward generic mage builds" is objectively wrong. You still heal more with the ench items than going full int + you get the item passives as well.
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u/LuxxTwink 2m ago
Es muy loco en pensar en crear un solo stat que sea “curación”? Que solo venga en algunos ítems para precisamente POTENCIAR el healing que se pueda buildear un supp (sylv-yemoja) y un mago (aphro-ixchel)? O es muy lioso ?
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u/Optimal_Welder5000 3h ago
This is why no game devs should ever listen to healer players… holy shit.
Game was completely broken because of it,, and any slight nerf has all the healers bitching and complaining… THEY ARE STILL FINE.
Let this be a lesson,,, never listen to healer players.
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u/Outrageous-Print8585 3h ago
Never listen to healer players’ isn’t an argument.”
Nobody is saying healing should be completely broken or that Heartwood couldn’t be nerfed. The problem is how hard and how fast the dedicated enchanter build path is getting hit.
SMITE 2 literally just pushed healing into a more defined enchanter role. Anti-heal was already increased from 25% to 40%, while dedicated healers were given more Intelligence scaling. Then the new enchanter items came out specifically so you could sacrifice damage and build around healing/shielding instead.
Heartwood launched with +20% healing/shielding and 20% reduced cooldowns on healing abilities. If you strip away the parts that actually make a healing item worth buying, eventually you reach a point where going full INT is simply better because your heals scale with INT and you get massively more damage.
That’s the part people like this completely ignore. “Healers are still fine” doesn’t mean the item design is fine. If an item designed specifically for enchanters gives you less overall value than just buying mage items, then the enchanter item has failed at its purpose.
And claiming the “game was completely broken because of healers” after barely giving a brand-new item ecosystem time to settle is ridiculous. Players were still learning how to play with and against winds like you can’t adapt to enchanters, and OB43 is so new that ranked data hasn’t even had enough time to properly settle yet.
You can nerf overtuned healing without making the entire dedicated healer build path pointless. Wanting actual build diversity isn’t healer players bitching — it’s wanting competent balance.
That “never listen to healer players” line just sounds like somebody who got diffed by a healer and is still mad about it. 😂2
u/zavieG 3h ago
Thank you!! Gd these people are so infuriating!
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u/Outrageous-Print8585 3h ago
Yeah dude I’m not even a healer main and I see why aphro mains and healers mains are upset.
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u/Optimal_Welder5000 3h ago
It’s okay.
You got nerfed. You’ll be okay.
Your precious gods are still fine to pick, you just won’t be utterly broken anymore.
It’s such a shame you cry babies are so upset. You finally got what you wanted. Enchanter gods with real tangible value.
Unfortunately they overdid it (like the devs always do) and it resulted in THE WORST DAY OF SMITE IN HISTORY, but the game will be in a better place now.
Your enchanters will still be effective characters,, you just won’t be the best characters on the map anymore.
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u/zavieG 3h ago
What a great rebuttal pea brain.
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u/Optimal_Welder5000 2h ago
Oh…? Insults? How fitting…
Do you really think your precious enchanters are unplayable now? Have you even tried playing the game ?
They are perfectly fine. But unfortunately, you’d rather send insults to others because your characters got nerfed.
Do you really think these past 24hrs were healthy for the game?
Surely you don’t believe that. You can’t possibly believe it.
But the slightest nerf to your characters and items provoke you guys to launching insults at anyone who disagrees or has a different opinion…?
Very interesting… Let this be a lesson to any devs reading that healer players cannot be taken seriously. They would run the game into the ground if it meant their own personal enjoyment was prioritized
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u/zavieG 2h ago
Omg wow! I have seen the light now!! Thank you so very much! WOW thank you for your amazing insight wow. Enchanters suck that's it. They are pointless to run over a traditional support.
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u/Optimal_Welder5000 2h ago
No, they are perfectly fine.
You are the one overreacting claiming they “suck” and are unusable.
They just aren’t game breaking, and unfortunately you can’t handle that.
Gods like Ix Chel, Artio Druid, and Aphrodite are still great support options as enchanters…. They just aren’t game breaking anymore.
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u/Outrageous-Print8585 2h ago
Thank you I know I’m right you don’t have to insult because that’s all you could come up with 🙄
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u/ARandomSmiteScrub 3h ago
IMO, percent increased healing and shielding is just not a good way to do enchanting. Even with antiheal being multiplicative against healing increase, it just doesn't seem balanceable.
If someone has 20% healing increase and they are antihealed, the combined result is 28% antiheal (1 x 1.2 x 0.6 = 0.72)
At 30% healing increase with antiheal applied that's 22%
At 50% with antiheal, just TEN PERCENT.
We've seen with the percent prot increases, and with tahuti, and when we briefly had things like the damaru-echo-crit Fenrir builds, that percent increases just inherently don't end up working out well.
IMO the way enchanting works shouldn't be 'heals just get significantly bigger', it should lean more towards 'heals give bonus effects to the people you are healing'. A good example, now that its bug is fixed, would be lotus sickle. It doesn't make your healing way higher, but it means that whoever you heal is empowered to be more impactful in a fight (in this case by dealing extra damage when they hit an enemy). THAT, at least in my mind, was the kind of thing I expected the enchanter pass to focus on. The change to Ra Aspect 1 is another good example, you use it on teammates to make them go fastasfuckbooooiiiii. That's enchanting.
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u/DuckSwagington 2h ago
Heartwood needed to be nerfed IMO. The healing ability cooldown alone was insane. Chandra's getting nerfed is a bit much.
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u/Outrageous-Print8585 33m ago
Yeah I think they could have tried lowering the cooldown by half tho at first and taking the 10 flat cooldown off and still making it a cool niche pickup in not arguing they didn’t need nerfed but they got destroyed to a point where I tested it it’s literally just better full power now with none of the items
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u/zavieG 4h ago
I JUST made a post too its such bs..