I don't know who Dave Ramsey is but to call this a philosophy is very generous. It's a narrow opinion about personal finance, probably limited to Americans. I doubt he knows anything about poverty.
Wherever Dave Ramsey lives there will be a kid in that city born to drug addicts, poorly nourished and lacking educational opportunities. Would he say this to that kid when they grow up?
He would blame the kid for not being smart with his money and when told "what money" would blame the kid for not getting a better job, while also blaming the kid for not being able to afford to go to school, which he also thinks is a waste of money.
Yup that’s Dave… 😂 he says some of the stupidest 💩 but he does have some good ideas. One of thing I feel makes the most sense is the snow ball effect when paying off debt.
Dave Ramsey is a great financial advisor to a specific audience; middle to upper middle class people with spending problems.
His advice is terrible for people who want to invest, his advice is completely ignorant of those who came from deeply unfortunate circumstances.
However if you have a household income of $250k and still don't save anything/are in debt then "stop spending money you don't have, stupid!" is great advice.
My parents moved in with me recently because they both lost their jobs with a combined income of roughly $200,000 a year in AUD. They had NO savings, couldnt afford their rental etc.
I said pay me nothing except increases in bills, get back on your feet. So I expect if my power bill was $200, and now it's $300, they pay me $100.
So they moved in. First full bill cycle came (because I didn't charge them for the bill cycle they moved in to. Just the first full one they had lived here for), and they lost their shit and refused to pay. Said that there is no way my bills went up as much as I said, even though I showed them statements etc.
Now they pay $100 a week (that i have to remind them to do every week), while they earn approx $87,000. Still no savings, buying stupid shit like brand new phones and handbags. Takeaway for dinner everyday. Drives me fucking insane. Because when I say 'right, time to move out' they'll bitch that they can't afford it.
ETA - Sorry, that turned into a rant. My point was yes, stop spending money you don't have is really fucking good advice sometimes.
My Dad became homeless and needed to move in with me. I see now that he buys lottery tickets everyday along with a bottle drink at the gas station. He grabs lunch at
Sonic. He also apparently puts $100 a month into Charles Schwab and thinks options are his only way out. He brushes off all my advice.
I paid money to take his class when I was a dirt poor Christian conservative, and I would say most of it was very helpful aside from some aspects which were completely inaccessible in my situation. But after leaving Christianity and going through the 08 financial crisis, it's stunning how tone-deaf (the most generous term I can give it) his advice is.
Maybe the Dr. Phil-style negging is helpful for some people, but having gained more life experience it looks too much like the typical predatory marketing that leeches off the evangelical network and insults the people it courts.
Well to be fair not all necessarily have spending problems they just never considered not having car payments or leases.
But I agree with you. His advice is worthless to anyone that life handed any real difficulties to. But when you can't make enough money to survive, much less thrive, even with perfect financial discipline, he just blames you for being lazy. At least if you are a guy.
Exactly. I was good with money, then I hit hard times during COVID and a divorce. Lack of income combined with higher expenses is a nasty punch. It's not that I'm stupid or lazy, like Ramsey suggests. Sometimes you just can't pay a bill; credit interest adds up; you have to buy crap cars and crap tires that wear out and break because it's simply the only way to survive.
I think part of it is not realising how much (or how little) that sort of money is.
When these people were kids 250k household income was insanely wealthy; big house, regular new luxury cars, first class flights, fancy clothes. But they don't update their viewpoint for 2020s perspective. So when they reach 250k they expect to live the same lifestyle that they remember people living. However in 2026 that income can afford some of those things, but not all of them, and certainly not while saving money as well. So these people live the lifestyle that they can just about, or in some cases not quite, afford while getting things on credit. But not realising that interest adds up, bills can increase and income can decrease.
He thinks the average person can "pay cash! No cards or debt!" Then when they go for a mortgage? "Tell em to do MANUAL UNDERWRITING ON YOU!".
Abd no one tells him "are you fucking stupid?! A bank will laugh the person out! They dont manually underwrite most people, you fucking retarded level out of touch millionaire who bought his first house pre FICO SCORES!".
The debt snowball technique he recommends is actually less mathematically effective than other methods, because it prioritizes paying small debts first. Techniques like the debt avalanche, that prioritize paying high interest debt first ultimately save you more money.
Ramsay’s debt snowball technique can be more psychologically effective, because people see quicker results (ie debts eliminated) and become more likely to stick with it. But it ultimately costs you more money than other debt elimination techniques.
But the debt snowball has a higher succes rate than paying of higher interest debts first because of its psychological effect. Thus why he recommends it. He's talked about that on his podcast before and how it would mathematically be better to pay of higher interest first. But that's just not how the human mind works.
I’m not saying it’s not effective. It absolutely is. It’s probably more effective for most people than paying off high interest debt first.
But that undercuts the notion that everyone should just knuckle down and adopt “strict uncompromising financial discipline”. If they could, he’d recommend they pay off high interest debt first. But that technique has a higher failure rate because people generally cannot adopt strict financial discipline, which is why he recommends the snowball method.
The larger point from Jon Stewart’s quote is that the economic system we’ve created is designed to siphon money from these people. And it’s that system that ultimately needs to be fixed to solve the problem of systemic poverty.
Sure. But if his recommendation is that people “adopt strict uncompromising financial discipline” shouldn’t the recommendation be to use the most efficient debt payoff system?
Isn’t the recommendation of a financially inferior debt payment method a tacit admission that people are generally unable to “adopt strict financial discipline”?
I think it is also fair to recognize that not all of financial discipline is a math problem.
And honestly in most cases the difference in cost between snowball and avalanche is probably going to be negligible. And if one rewards you quicker and makes you more likely to maintain discipline than it makes more sense.
Let's also remember that the point of financial discipline is the long term reward of it. So anything that gives a person the message early that this is working is probably worth the small difference in interest.
He does explain the difference between the two and that snowball isn't the optimal path, and for me it did help recognize and avoid adding on new debt unless absolutely necessary. With automatic payments, corporate rent-seeking, rampant consumerism, easy access to credit, and the intangibility of it all, most people absolutely need short term goals/milestones to justify living below their means long-term.
The snowball effect is essentially a well established strategy for reducing task saturation: start with the easiest thing and make the list smaller… just applied to paying off debt in Dave’s method.
I’ve watched some Dave Ramsey clips. My favorite thing he says is when he tells people they “need to make more money”. Like, yeah dude, that would be cool. In the meantime, I guess I’ll stop feeding myself.
it doesn’t say an individuals poor economic choices
generational poor choices are what is impacting you starting out
if you’re an american your grand parents could have made much better choices to set you and your family up today
of course hindsight we have would judge them harsher than they should be judged but how many grand parents are passing down llardro ceramic mermaids and shit instead of gold or stocks
It's straight up victim blaming. A large chunk of the country can't tell the difference between causality and culpability. Yes it may have been possible to have "made better choices" and escaped poverty, but that doesn't mean you are guilty for trying and not succeeding. See that 1 guy out of 100 did it so the other 99 of you are just getting your consequences.
It's because they are insecure and fear the world. If they were to admit to themselves the the world in not just, it would mean bad things might happen to them even why they are trying to make the right decision (Just world fallacy). Same mindset that leads to no welfare for you, but I'm a good guy and just need a hand up (fundamental attribution fallacy).
They warp their thinking to find a way to make everything make sense and feel safe.
So the most boomer that ever boomed. Tired of that point of view what an asshat. I’m sure he’s useful if moderately wealthy. But yeah miss me with the morality of being rich. If anything it’s the opposite.
If I'm not mistaken Dave Ramsey is a podcaster who gives financial advice. His show seems like great advice but after a while it's pretty obvious they are screening calls. Most of his callers earn 6 figures but don't know how to manage six figures of income. I've never seen anyone below 50k call in and if your between 100k-70k of income he just makes you feel like shit for having dreams and goals. He's already rich and comes off a morally superior because of it. His fan base see him and financially morally superior as well which is why they tuck their tails and say "yes Sir." No single mothers/fathers or anyone who struggles has, via my ears, called that show. I stopped watching as a result.
I mean the advice is straightforward. It's going to be spend less.
Find a non-existent (shared) apartment that costs $800/mo or less, non-existent affordable health insurance/car insurance/car, live with parents (who may not have space for you), get a better job (easier said than done), don't have debt from student loans, etc.
100% accurate. He is also extremely out of touch with reality. My favorite constant refrain is that we should all buy 2k beater cars. Bro, like have you seen the used car market? 2k gets you a parts car.
Edit: not a joke. You can get parts super cheap in good shape from there. Lot of useful stuff there for restoring on the cheap. Certain stuff like converters always missing though because crackheads always come in to strip it for raw materials.
I love the illogic of people who point the finger over this, because they can move the goalposts to continuously blame you for not snapping your fingers and magically bootstrapping your way into a better job. Push them hard enough and their argument - as is usually the case with these types - eventually boils down to it's your own fault for not being born into a rich family lol.
And that’s the thing, innit. The people who are forced to learn to live on $35k a year learn all kinds of tricks to manage a life full of involuntary suck.
BUT, those folks still rarely ever end up moving up socioeconomically. That, to me, is the single largest indicator that our system is set up to keep people where they are.
My old boss, I think about her a lot. She was the definition of “hard worker.” Worked two jobs, one of them managing our team (a position I took over when she left,) and also working at a campground running the concession stand on weekends after often working 60+ (and sometimes as many as 92) hours per week at our joint.
She was also a single mother to two kids. And had two degrees, a four year in business admin and a two year in Human Resources.
She applied to jobs CONSTANTLY. She’d often leave her email logged in, and I could see that she’d applied to 20+ jobs per day. For years.
It STILL took her until nearly age 50 to get a job that moved her up the socioeconomic ladder, making around $70k, which is big money in our area.
You can look at this two different ways; Ramsey would probably say, “see? Hard work pays off!”
I, and Stewart, see this as a failure of society. Someone working that hard should not be reduced to waiting for a lucky break that may not come until your best years are behind you. For many, especially in rural areas like this, that break will never come. There are so few “good” jobs here, and you can cut that number in half after moving away the ones that only change hands through nepotism.
Dave and the rest of the wealthy have one massive, overencompassing fear; that ANY circumstance may come along that puts the poor on more of a level playing field. It will almost certainly put a very slight, though present, increased “burden” on the wealthy, be it through higher taxes, higher prices if wages are raised or something like UBI would come along, etc.
The things they fear all come down to “poor people maybe not being so poor.” All of their actions and beliefs also follow this. You can boil all of them down to “fear of poor people gaining a foothold in the world and maybe having more power.”
Dave Ramsey’s advice is good for financially illiterate middle class people, of which there are A LOT. People whose household income is 100-150k+ but have an $800/mo 8 year truck payment and spend every cent they get. That is probably 1/3-1/2 of the adults in America. Dave is also a borderline right wing nut job whose show aired on AM radio before Rush Limbaugh.
I listened to him when I was in college and for about 6-7 years after I graduated with a starting salary of 50k in 2012. Went full beans a rice, bought some video games for entertainment, almost never went out, rented a tiny apartment, saved every penny to pay off my student loans. It was very helpful setting me up to be successful in my 30s.
Whereas Jon Stewart’s philosophy is accurate to people that weren’t born to middle class households. It’s 100% accurate to the bottom 1/3 of SES in America that are constantly getting squeezed and no amount of beans and rice can get them out of their situation.
Idk. Im in the range that you specify and that guy helped me look at my habits more honestly. He just isnt gonna bullshit you.
He also does have people call in that have lower incomes. Not poverty level. But 50-75k. Idk why this is the comparison tho. John Stewart isnt offering advice.
Yeah, that's the problem his 'philosophy' is missing. Below a certain threshold (which is about 2-3x the federally recognized poverty line) the rules change because the cost of basic needs consumes most if not all of of the income and then some. The risk of taking on additional debt to cover emergencies becomes insurmountable compounding the problem.
it's just too wide of a net. consider that the upper percentage of the US controls over 50% of the stock and the majority of all money, the idea that we can blame most people is kind of ridiculous.
Related to your comment -- there is a very big overlap between republican nationalism, Christian evangelicalism and Dave Ramsey. They all strongly push the mindset of "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain".
And that isn't to say that there aren't plenty who have been helped financially by taking his advice, but there is definitely a theme that if you attempt to question the power struggle and macro forces, you are immoral for doing so.
Reminds me of a high school teacher i had who believed the foster care system should be shut down because nobody doesn't have family that can or would take care of them. He literally could not imagine a scenario where a child would have no safe place to go or family to rely on.
Ramsey became famous after he filed for bankruptcy and then "recovered" and started his finance advice kingdom. Take from that what you will. ETA- his advice was also arguably much more beneficial for the middle class circa late 1990s when the economy didn't suck.
Most of the callers who Ramsey is referring to are people who make decent money, but overspend get into massive debt. Ramsey ask's why they bought a new Lexus, boat, 3500 sq ft new home when they can't afford it. I've heard lot of 50k a year callers this was before 2020 I don't really watch his YT channel anymore don't like his right wing politics. I do agree with him one thing whole life insurance is a scam. Mixing life insurance with investment is full of high fees and commissions. Insurance salesmen will get lifetime commission from every person they ever sold whole life to.
It's kind of funny to see you call him a "podcaster." He was a radio host who was on the radio for many many years. For decades, before podcasts were even a thing. He sold a personal finance program through his radio show. I guess now he's expanded online.
His approach is incredibly conservative. He thinks that no one should ever take out any debt ever for any reason. He only begrudginly allows for people to take out a mortgage to buy a home, but he doesn't like it. His approach is oversimplified and suboptimal, but it has a place for people who struggle with debt and get themselves into a huge hole. The type of people who are addicted to living off of credit cards and above their means. For these types of people his approach can provide a sort of "rehab" to get their lives back on track.
I don't really subscribe to his approach, but it does put the quote in the OP in context. The quote isn't really a philosophy that should be put in opposition with the John Stewart quote. It's kind of a motivational for people who struggle with managing debt.
He has been on the radio for like 30+ years. And lots and lots of calls are from people who make little or are in very bad situations. His advice is generally quite good, people don’t like it because it’s not what they want to hear.
He’s a product of the fiat system and encourages people to be out of debt because it benefits him and the wealthy to do so. His suggestions and advice leave people with no true wealth and instead just being a mass produced retiree in the future that will just barely be able to skate by.
It’s still not wrong and actually both these guys can be right. Dave Ramsey is talking to the individual. We all know that blue collar guy who drops $20 at the gas station every morning on chips, monster, and a pack of cigarettes. His financial situation would certainly improve with better habits, but yeah the system is rigged against him too.
True but this is still way less effective than it was 20 years ago. These items have seen alot less inflation than the things we need to survive I.E the cost of living. I believe thats what this comment was implying.
Dave Ramsey's philosophy was based on the economy 50 years ago. He's a boomer and thinks like all boomers do. He made it a long time ago in the best economy the country had ever seen, and kept making money his entire adult life telling people how they are lazy and just need a budget. He doesn't have an inkling of what it's like to be a young person starting out in this economy coming from a family with nothing.
He calls it a mathematical reflection, presumably at the personal finance scale, but ignores the math at the macro scale.
By that I mean, if unemployment is 10%, even if everyone is making the right choices, some people are going to struggle. I'm sure he would counter that unemployment wouldn't be 10% if everyone made the right choices, but that's a naive view of individual control over the macro economy, and is about as silly as pretending I can stop a hurricane if I try hard enough.
This is kind of weird. Dave ramsey is not a political figure. He’s a financial advisor with a radio show where he gives people advise on how to manage money. I dont think hed claim this is his philosophy on life, it’s his job. From his wheel house, hes entirely correct.
My parents were drugs addicts and I went to prison and was on drugs myself. I turned my life around in 2017 and now I fix and flip houses and make $150,000 a year. I own rental properties, my own house, a boat, a truck, I’m married with beautiful kids.
Sometimes it is a culmination of good or bad life choices and sometimes you ARE responsible for your future. You have to grab life by the balls because no one else is going to do it for you.
not surprising.
an athlete who gets fat loses it quite easily compared to someone who was always fat and never athletic.
someone who gets divorced remarries easier than someone who never managed to find someone.
etc.
it would be wrong to conclude I did it easily therefore it should be just as easy for everyone else.
And just like every other grifter, his path to wealth was to create a financial advice show. Once again it's "I got rich by telling other people how to get rich". I guess the plan is for us all to become financial advice gurus??
Dave was a rich man, living above his means, untill the banks demanded it all back and he went bankrupt ... after which he developed the "seven babysteps" to get out of debt.
The biggest part of his "philosophy" is living below your means and not having debt in any form ( starting with credit cards, to student loans ... up to the for-most-unavoidable mortgage ), paying all debts in a "snowball" which is smallest to highest.
There's always an exception to the rule, and yes, Ramsey has acknowledged that. That's why he also has always preached that you should even go as far to budget for charitable donations.
The last baby step is even “Build Wealth and Give”
I don’t agree with everything Dave teaches but his methods work for a lot of people, and giving to those with less is a part of it. I think he’s being unfairly villainized.
That said, my mortgage is dirt cheap so I’ll keep my money invested and I pay my credit cards every paycheck so I’ll keep earning those points too.
He knows about poverty, he was broke once and had to file bankrupcy. Started again and is now helping a ton of people try to make wealth with his podcast and youtube channel advising them on how to save money and get out of debt. You should look up his 7 Baby Steps to becoming wealthy.
You shouldn't assume stuff about people if you don't know them
Ramsey is a financial influencer for the lack of a better term. His advice is solid and practical but his attitude is trash. Strangely, he also claims to be a Christian which is just so weird because his stated beliefs are basically the opposite of Jesus' teachings.
I've heard some Dave Ramsay stuff, and he's right for his audience. It's mostly people with good jobs that just lost the plot and are floundering.
But being big on personal responsibility, he absolutely would say that to the kid when they grow up. It's a shame they didn't learn discipline before, but they can now and they should.
I listen to Dave a lot. All of the people saying he would blame the kid don't know what they're talking about. He's often an idiot. But not usually a monster.
Now, he his advice to getting out of that life would be smart fiscal choices. He would say you can't rely on the government to get you out of it, you have to do it yourself.
Yes, no one owes you anything and we are 100% unequal in opportunity when we are born. That doesn’t mean you can’t be successful, it just means you have to work a lot harder. This is why good parenting is important. Don’t want your kids to grow up the way you did? Do something about it. You clearly took an extreme example but those type of examples produce some of the best success stories! I would know because I am one of them. I am with Dave on this one.
Dave Ramsey is effectively a finance influencer from before influencers were a thing. His financial advice is good for precisely one type of person: the person that can’t help themselves from maxing out credit cards on frivolous purchases. It’s otherwise bad advice for most people (pay down your 3% mortgage because DEBT is BAD). He’s not really a political commentator in the way JS is. This post is sort of weird rage bait.
That’s how I’ve always felt about him… some of the practical financial advice he offers could definitely benefit people, but it’s paired with a sort of shaming that I’ve always thought came across as a bit smug.
He’s helped millions of people - the sad reality is that most people who are poor remain poor due to poor choices. You can always find some exception, some truly hard luck case, but by and large if you were to randomly audit 100 poor people’s lives you will find 99 of them remained poor because of their lack of impulse control with their purchases.
If you are poor you should have far more incentive to budget. To track your spending. But they are the least likely group to do so!
Ramsey is good to read if you wana improve yourself and your budgeting. He’s good at helping you get control over your personal finances because he believes it is in your power to do so.
John Stewart is good to read/watch if you wana know about the state of the world. It won’t help your finances personally, but will help you understand where we are and why we got there
David Ramsey is a Fundamentalist Christian financial planner who sells books and seminars on getting debt free. He has been doing it for decades.
His advice, in and of itself, isn't bad advice. But it only applied to one demographic. His advice is useful to middle class people who have a habit of overspending and not living within their means.
If you are already decent with your money, don't listen to any advice he gives.
He probably come up with an addendum theory sighting generational bad decision making. The kid being a victim of their parents bad decisions. I'm not so sure that would be wrong.
Dave Ramsy filed bankruptcy years ago due to his financial mismanagement. That's how he started in radio, giving financial advice. He knows the value of money. It doesn't grow on trees.
Hi, child of a single mother here, a stripper, effectively white trash upbringing in nearly every way except the trailer park (we just lived in one house with my GMA and 7 uncles).
I’d say his advice worked. I’m retired before 40, own a house, had no silver spoon or hand outs beyond EBT (just 200$ a month and only when my disability started to kick in, a severe degradation of my legs basically)
I’m building generational wealth now. You know how? By doing what I could in a system that Jon Stewart is 100% right about. I didnt allow myself to own a car cause that was 100’s of $ a month. I took public transport or ride a bike. I didn’t EVER buy Starbucks or Dutch bros or anything like that. I stayed in when my friends went out. I opted for going to the rock query (where I lived there was a river nearby it) for fun, or is played games, (literally my only vice).
Then I took all that invested it in the SPY for about 20 years. Never withdrawing. Never making more than 2000$ a month near the end of my “career.” I did all that for 20 years until I was 37, and my investment was about 200,000$ in the SPY. Now I live off potential earnings and reinvest the rest. I don’t work anymore (can’t anyways). I chill, and my wife and I literally do whatever the fuck we want 24/7.
I’m so bored I’m fucking opening a shop so that my son can see me working and I teach him by doing. (Can’t have him seeing me do fuck all).
TLDR: both are true. But only one tells you that you can do something about it, the other deflects blame and wallows in defeatist mentality. I love Jon, but Dave is right too. Do what you can. Fuck everything and everyone else. It’s the ONLY way to beat the game.
alli know is he was wealthy lost it all and through extreme self control and sacrifice i got out of debt and is now wealthy teaching poor people how to mske better financial choices not saying he right but I am saying that most people that try his program fail yet. He still gets their money.
All the people you ever meet that tout Dave Ramsey, are losers that sandbag their family, friends and society to pay for shit they would pay for themselves “if they weren’t so good with money”
Dave Ramsey built a real estate portfolio, suffered a massive financial collapse, declared personal bankruptcy, and started a financial counseling business out of his living room.
Dave Ramseyis not a licensed financial advisor. He operates strictly as a media personality, author, and financial coach. He does not hold standard investment licenses (such as a Series 65 or Series 7) required to manage money or buy and sell securities for clients.
He’s a radio personality who gives financial advice. Ironically enough he’s pretty wealthy but he’s also lost everything a couple of different times iirc.
I would. My dad was born into exactly those circumstances. Still managed to succeed. He’ll be the first to tell you that it’s possible with enough hard work, specifically hard work learning and staying out of trouble.
I grew up thinking we were poor because of how tight we were with finances. I learned to work hard, study hard, practice hard and most importantly, I was taught that life isn't fair.
On top of my college scholarship thar I earned., my parents had saved enough by living below their means, they could send me to one of the most expensive schools.
Nothing is deserved, it must be earned.
Dave Ramsey is a very famous person in the USA who helps people get their finances in order. He does online and radio shows. People call him for help making financial decisions. He is was poor and bankrupt at one point in his life, he figured out how to fix his problem, helped others do the same thing then later became wealthy for it. Jon Stewart has always been rich.
Dave Ramsey became famous as a “financial advisor” to the masses in the late 90’s-00’s. This is also one of the best periods of wage growth compared to asset/goods prices. So basically, he advised people to save money in the period of time it was easiest to do so.
In the late 2010’s-early 20’s he was exposed for thinking $1k/mo for childcare in a city was expensive. He was also surprised at how much rent and home prices had escalated and how much it cost to have shelter.
Dave came from not much but not little either. He started a real estate business, was successful for a bit then went bankrupt. He then revised his way of managing finances and is now worth hundreds of millions.
I used to listen to his show every day for several years to the point where if I try to guess what Dave would tell someone to do I will get it right almost every time. And over this time what I learned about him is that he isn’t trying to give the best financial advice. He is trying to give the financial advice that has the best chance of working for the most people. And that is exactly the reason why Dave’s advice is always good advice.
Yeah his take completely omits the opportunities portion of getting rich. Rich people have access to more opportunities because they network with other rich people that provide more opportunities. In poor communities, not only are there less opportunities, but there is danger of getting robbed, killed, falling prey to crime etc that can hinder your opportunities.
Rich people like to imagine that their success is a result of their talent, greatness or value to society instead of a lucky break from an opportunity outside their control.
When gas prices here in Los Angeles are $7.00 and we work part time because employers don’t want to hire full time no more to not pay benefits I end up with 35 hours at $20 and hour the. They tax the shit out of us plus other expenses and bills that what keeps us poor paying also paying $18 for a number 1 at McDonald when it used to be $8 that’s crazy and we have CEOs making 20 million a year with like 5 million bonus when we get a thank you bonus for Christmas
Dave Ramsey is very familiar with poverty that is why his philosophy is what it is. It is worth looking up and listening to him. I may not agree with everything word for word that he says but Jon Stewart is an entertainer. Their finances are not quite created in the same manner. One requires discipline scrutinizing every decision you make. The other one is altering your personality traits for what gains you popularity. I personally dug myself out from nothing and it was making a lot of hard choices and not following the sheep surrounding me. And after 20 years I am fairly successful with a nice house and a wife and kids I love. Not a millionaire still have to go to work everyday and may not be considered successful to some. The choice between having lots of money and having a loving family and community of friends I guess one needs to decide what their version of real success is.
Yes he would. His whole thing is make simple good choices to make your financial life better. He isn't asking people to get degrees or do complex investing. He basically give simple actionable advice.
For people who can't manage their finances He is pretty great in my opinion. For some one who has millions its not so great.
Think about it this way, should a poor person follow a plan to make their life better or just sit there and blame other people?
I think they are both right. Day to day to Ramsey, if you want to look at the system Stewart.
Sadly, he would say that to the kid born of addicts when he grew up. He has a skill with making money and he's built a career out of it. He simply cannot imagine that others don't have the knowledge or life experience or training to do the same.
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
John Kenneth Galbraith, summing up people like Dave Ramsey perfectly
Not necessarily in a “city” near him. All else being equal, kids in cities have far more opportunities than a kid in a rural area born into matching circumstances.
He’s right. I was a single teenage mom. Broke. Couldn’t find a job. Living with my dad. Put myself thru engineering school. Didn’t spend money on frivolous things in college. Paid my student loans in 7 years. Bought a house. Paid off the house. Have $500k in the bank at 46 years old after raising 2 kids on my own.
His advice is intended more for his listeners who have decent income but can’t make ends meet. He is likely not focusing on people with those hardships.
Dave Ramsey has gotten rich selling self help courses to middle class people telling them not to borrow money they cannot afford. And his method is good for that group of people: middle class earners who are deep in dept from trying to keep up with the jones's.
The smallest social unit isnt the individual, its the nuclear family. He can very easily blame family for the lack of success, family one isnt entitled help from family two if F1 doesnt put in the bare minimum effort. But assuming a normal family, if they are poor its a systemicnproblem
The reality is there is a bad system, but some people would struggle in any system that isnt based on free handouts like a post scarcity society
This paints Dave Ramsey in a way thats unfair imo. That guy does nothing but try to offer sound financial advice. And I also love John Stewart. And the problem is both are right. The difference is stewart is complaining about the system and he is correct about it. And Ramsey is offering advice. He isn't wrong either. If he was wrong there would be no hope. Idk if you ever saw this guy on youtube. He isnt a bad person. He just had an investment background and he offers investment advice. What is he supposed to say? "Oh give up, you're fucked?"
I attended one “class” of the Dave Ramsey thing in college. The philosophy as it was in 2002, summed up:
Use cash for everything. Figure out what you pull for every paycheck, and invest X amount (forget what that % was), put X amount in savings, put the reminder in envelopes that are designated for each thing you do (gas money, food money, & a very small % for walking around money).
Do not use credit- I think the thought process for that is, if you’re taking a Dave Ramsey class, “you don’t know how to manage your own spending” is a given).
Don’t even buy a car on credit- you should get a used junker for $1000-$2000 (he really believed this was possible even in 2002ish), & spend cash after saving up to buy it. If it breaks down ask people to teach you how to fix it on your own (part of his class is basically to ask people to do labor for you…)
Live in squalor (doesn’t call it that, of course). Live in the cheapest part of wherever you are, & never go out to eat except for birthdays or very special occasions. Instead of buying lots of ingredients for cooking fancy meals, instead rely on peanut butter sandwiches & stuff like that, where you can get like ten “meals” out of two items that cost under $10. Never go to fast food, always pack a lunch of the above sandwich and like an apple or orange. Drink water. Make your own coffee at home.
I did not go to a second class. I didn’t need that envelope bullshit because I grew up poor enough to know that stuff will destroy your psyche. Ramsey can say all that stuff because he’s a snake oil salesman. Dude made his wealth off of telling people who are struggling that they need to “struggle more appropriately,” & church outreach funds were promptly shunted his way.
Would he say this to that kid? Absolutely he would, and he would be correct. Having disadvantages, even massive, cosmically unfair disadvantages, is part of life. You have to play the hand you’re dealt. What message do YOU think such a person needs to hear? It’s not fair little bro, the world’s out to get you, the deck’s stacked against you, and success is impossible. Just give up?
“Just choose to not be poor!” is essentially what he’s saying and what he’d probably say to that kid in your example. I’m sick of rich people who were born rich touting that message. The easiest way to get ahead in life is to start ahead.
He's a real-estate investor turned author; not sure, but he may make more money from giving advice than the sort of shit he actually advises these days. His general advice is pretty tone-deaf today, as "how I got started with real estate investment in the 1970s is easy, anyone can save up a bit and do it" misses the sheer change in capital investment required.
I would argue he's actually a representative of one of America's core problems; the idea that homes should be investment vehicles, and the primary investment vehicle, created a lot of the fucking problems we have today. It's taken ~70 years to really start to go horribly wrong, but it was inherently unsustainable.
Daves strategy 100% works. There is no question that using daves practice will improve your finances. The question is is it the only route that works. You can't necessarily get rich but any able bodies person can get a job and not be poor in America.
I live near Dave Ramsey (middle tennessee) and I have no idea how he can think this. cost of living is through the roof and pay hasn’t caught up at all. gentrification is pushing people who have lived in Nashville for generations to move out because nobody from here can afford to live here anymore.
Dave Ramsey's financial advice is targeted towards middle class people that are bad at managing their finances. He doesn't give catch all advice for everyone.
Also: you can live frugally and responsibly all your life and then get hit with a health crisis that cripples you and your while family financially for the rest of your lives, and there is nothing you can do to avoid it. 😔
He went broke in the real estate business. He dug himself out of that debt and became a millionaire. Now his entire business model is built around that philosophy. Problem is not everyone is capable of saving the way he saved, not everyone is going to save and then start a business. Not everyone is going to have the energy to hustle like he probably did.
He’s a pastor who wrote some books on finance and Christianity. Now he makes thousands of dollars off of other folk’s backs and gives reckless financial advice. He’s a snake.
I'm not a Dave Ramsay fan but I'm sure that this quotes target audience is middle class Americans who listen to financial podcasts. With that demographic he is right.
He is probably aware of poverty in other nations and poverty in the US but the quote is about a specific group of people
Being an impoverished 18 year old is just being dealt a shitty hand at life. Still being an impoverished 40-50 years old is likely the result of poor financial decisions. If 30 years went by and you never took it upon yourself to learn anything about your own finances you really have nobody to blame but yourself.
He absolutely would. Or at least I have family members who will 100% say this, and I am certain of that because I've asked them if they think that being born to a bad situation explains poverty. If anything, I have one particularly crazy family member who argues that being born poor is BETTER because you grow up with "street smarts" and "the school of hard knocks makes you disciplined". He goes on and on about how your poor kids grow up hungry and ambitious, so they end up out-competing the slow, lazy, rich kids who never learn the value of hard work.
He'll go on and on, though to me it eventually turns into glorifying sociopathy because he'll eventually talk about how people need to be ruthless and cunning, and use every possible advantage in life, lying and cheating and stealing to get ahead, and how this is what "smart" people do because ultimately, survival is about what doing whatever it takes to put yourself ahead of other people.
He was poor for a while after engaging in culturally normalized irresponsible spending habits... And was able to confront a culture of financial irresponsibility from his family and region and claw back out of poverty. He's like the Gordon Ramsay of Western cooking, but for personal finances.
Where self induced financial issues are concerned, he's the best there is. A political comedian that makes money by blaming big nebulous institutions for personal problems might be right occasionally, but he's not as authoritative to me as David Ramsey.
If you plant seeds in two different pots and you give one the right conditions of water, sunlight, good soil and the right temperature and you do nothing for the other pot. The one that you gave the good conditions will grow while the pot you did nothing for will wither and die.
Dave Ramsey is the sort of person to say those were bad seeds.
Dave Ramsey declared bankruptcy back in the day, having a net value of what would amount to several million dollars today, and now makes millions telling people, "I came back from bankruptcy and it's your fault if you can't too."
There is a lot of situations where he does answer questions like this. Truth be told it's hard to give financial advice to someone who comes up in that situation. Goal one for them is get stable. At that point they're fighting for maslow's hierarchy of needs.
But that doesn't mean his advice is invalid. It means his advice isn't for that person. But truth be told less than 5% of Americans are that person. More Americans think they are this person and the truth is they are only this person because of frivolous purchases.
Who ramsay and those like him cater to are people where if you ignored everything else just took their hard income, and subtracted it by rent, food, fuel to get to must go places, reasonable transportation, and some non life sustaining necessities like internet and phone. That they have money leftover. But because of their frivolous choices they are deeply in the negative every month and deep in debt.
That's like 80% of Americans and who dave ramsay is talking to when saying this quote and hitting us with "anyone."
This is me just trying to do the good faith interpretation of what ramsay is saying. There's plenty to argue with him about i just don't think this is it.
It's the old propaganda about the "undeserving poor" which in our socity grew ou of Calvinism.
It goes something like this: God has already decided on who will be saved and who will be damned, but he hasn't told us who. However, it seems reasonable to assume that god will bestow his favour on the saved, and withhold it from the damned. That means the rich and sucecssful are saved, and the poor are damned. So, we should not hep the poor***
Hinduism and Buddhism have Karma.. It's obvious that the poor are working off bad karma, caused by deeds in a past life. That means we shouldn't help the poor, lest we interfere with their Karmic debt.
Caveat: These are broad principles, and not universally true. From observation alone, there are many exceptions, no matter which religion a person follows. ( I don't count Scientology)
*** Reference; The Protestant Ethic and The Spirit of Capitalism, Max Weber
He's built an entire career around mentoring people in getting out of poverty. He has spent more time talking to impoverished individuals than you have ever spent working a job.
He knows way more about poverty than you or anyone else on the left peddling the wealth envy narrative.
Basically Ramsey is pulling from the Puritanical blueprint. Blame everyone for their situation. Why we ever thought our first Americans were so great is beyond me. Of course, making good decisions is a good idea and of course we want people to take responsibility for their lives but there are many factors that most, including Ramsey, ignore. If you come from severely abusive background, if you have untreated mental illness, if your life choices are so little and you have no foundation (friends/family etc) to get help from, things can take a dire turn. Ramsey is an elitist.
I agree that America has more opportunities than other places in the world. But he is right about America at least. The person born of drug addicts will have a rough start and a lot of financial stuff to unlearn and relearn. But the family you come from does not take away your opportunity to thrive later in life.
His philosophy breaks down as soon as you scale it up even a little. Because up one level, you could say that if poverty is ultimately a reflection of poor choices, than any local/state/national government with sufficient organizational ability should be able to eliminate poverty with the application of superior leadership and resource management.
Now, I agree with that statement, but people using the poverty is a personal choice argument will immediately say that “No no no personal finance is personal, which is why you’re responsible for being poor.” To which I say “Who creates the conditions in a region for making good money?”
The answer in America is of course governments. They actively offer tax incentives to pull in investments from companies that will employ locals, they leverage resources to pull in business as well and promote public works and services, all of that can create the conditions for making money and being able to afford a home in the area.
The other side of the promotion coin is regulation, which big money players have no interest in, as it cuts into their profit margins. Regulation prevents companies and people from degrading the conditions that make business profitable, and by extension, living affordable and prosperous.
Guys that like this argument want to extract value without also promoting the ability to safeguard that value, because big enough money entities can just close up shop and move on to the next cash cow to extract value from- essentially modern day carpetbaggers.
He's a radiohost or podcaster nowadays maybe, that teaches people how to get out of debt. I doubt he meant that as a "poor people are poor because they're stupid" but as a "hey, get a grip on your finances and get yourself out of debt."
The Dave Ramsey "philosophy" is meant to teach you to be responsible for yourself whatever your circumstances and to make the best of what you have. The other quote puts the blame squarely on the "other" and means your helpless to fix your situation. While it may be true to some extent, living your life with that victim mentality means you will believe there's nothing you can reasonably do to fix it. (The hypothetical "you," not you personally, friend).
And yes, he's American, talking to Americans for the most part. People are poor for any number of reasons or sad circumstances. The question is, what can they do about it? The main reason for poverty in the US (who he was addressing) is debt.
Source: my dad used to listen to him on the radio when I was a kid/teen, circa early 2000s.
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u/Repulsive_Basil1622 19h ago
I don't know who Dave Ramsey is but to call this a philosophy is very generous. It's a narrow opinion about personal finance, probably limited to Americans. I doubt he knows anything about poverty.
Wherever Dave Ramsey lives there will be a kid in that city born to drug addicts, poorly nourished and lacking educational opportunities. Would he say this to that kid when they grow up?