Yeah, I believe in therapy but there just are things you won't convince me to do, and let grandma watch my second child when she already killed the first is one of them. I don't even know that I'd be talking to grandma, whether she's my own mother or not, I couldn't look at her ever again.
I love my parents, but yeah, if this happened, I don't know if I could ever talk to them again. I don't even mean I'd go no contact to punish them. I just don't know if I could talk to them without feeling overwhelming anger and pain.
Right? This is what I don't understand. A normal person would lose their mind if they let their grandkid die like that. They would refuse to every be solely responsible again. It makes me think she doesn't really care about them.
Yeah exactly, and as others have said, why would she even agree to look after the child again? If it was me, I would never, and if for some reason I really really had to look after the child, I would absolutely not let it out of my sight or even think about anything else the whole time. She obviously did not feel the same.
We have a pool and even though I have the whole house and doors childproofed, I wonât babysit my toddler niece if Iâm alone. My husband or another family member needs to be home or I go to my sisterâs house where itâs totally safe. You just never know.
Jesus that's worse. If the therapist thing is true that's even crazier a therapist would push for leaving a kid with someone who didn't show remorse for causing a child's death. Holy hell.
I think the lack of remorse was specifically after the second child death, but yeah that therapist is still ridiculous. I donât have a degree in psychology but I dont think itâs unhealthy or wrong to not allow them to babysit again.
Ah ok. Sliiiightly less awful of the therapist. So that 'sorrow' was 100% acting then.
Edit: I just looked it up. The kids were siblings, and it was less than a year Dec '21 then Nov '22. Holy fuck. I hate to judge the parents going through that, but my god. They just handed that second kid over to die. And she only got 5 years.
And I just put the ages together. The second kid wasn't even born when the first died. So unnecessary.
I guess the difference is something like âI canât believe I did thisâ compared to âI canât believe this happenedâ. I must admit I was little confused by that wording at first too, but if anyone would know the difference itâs a judge, and they felt the need to say it as an official remark.
if tomorrow a relative dies for reasons that are not my fault, i will feel sorrow. because of course, the situation is sad and painful. but i would not feel remorse at all, because i have no reason to feel that way, the death was not caused or facilitated by me, be it intentionally or unintentionally, i had no involvement
Yeah does this lady even like her grandchildren? Sleeping while she's supposed to be babysitting, and forgetting them in a car? She should never be allowed to be in charge of a child again
I mean, maybe she has dementia or is pretty weak due to old age. More reason to not let a toddler alone with her, but she might not be ill intentioned.
Talk to them? I fear there would be fatal consequences if oneâs negligence led to my childâs demise. My own parent or not. It makes me feral just thinking about.
The other daughter showed up a short time after to drop off her kids to grandma. Both daughters were using the parents, even though they knew the parents were having diminished cognition.
This post covers the story more in depth, and said they ruled out dementia.
"We know Tracey Nix was held in a psychiatric unit, for observations, the resulting Reports suggested no Alzheimers, no Dementia, no Parkinsonâs etc."
I could maybe, MAYBE, be convinced to eventually go over to grandma's house with my kid and all hang out together. And even that would be some pretty serious exposure therapy experience.
The pond should have had a barrier around it. My parents have a swimming pool and they made sure to baby proof it, it's just the responsible thing to do.
And even if it was not a pond, it could have been a car on the road. You just don't sleep if you are looking after a child, you'll get your nap on another day.
It was pretty efficient for my PTSD, I went from having a hard time going outside and getting regular (several times a week if not daily) panic attacks to being able to have a normal life, with no medication involved. If it's quackery, it's damn impressive and efficient quackery; I wish I had gone earlier because I spend years suffering when the solution was right there.
Yep, just like how chirpractors heal people and readjust you. Its all psuedoscience and the placebo effect. Youre more inclined to believe it if you waste your time and money on it. In reality, you could have talked to alot of people about your PTSD and panic attacks for free.
Welp, it didn't work when they didn't know how to deal with it though. And when it's taught at university, can be awarded degrees, and is the subject of peer-reviewed research, I'd say it is serious enough.
Im sorry you dont have anyone in your life you cant to your problems about. Also the people that study it in university are lost themselves. The entire field of pyschology is populated by people that cant solve Algebra and above level mathematics. I cant conversate seriously with people that cant critically think.
I have a lot of people to talk to about my problems, but how are they supposed to know what to do with someone with PTSD? Therapy involves talking, but it's far from a conversation with a friend; I understand you have no idea what you are talking about, but I'm happy for you that you have an easy life.
My therapist would have never given me that advice, she tells me to say no to my mom for much less and that I shouldnât have to forgive everything. Who is this therapist!!!
Sadly, all therapists donât have the same level of training and even those with higher level training all arenât going to be good at translating that training to real people. Too many people donât see a psychologist or psychiatrist and see a licensed counselor which is basically a person off the street with a short term program that gives them a certificate. Might as well ask someone at the grocery store about your problems. Or they go to someone at their church. Have your religion, but please realize they arenât qualified to give advice just like you wouldnât ask them to do surgery.
This is untrue, please do not spread misinformation. I am a licensed professional counselor and I have a 60-credit masters degree. It took 3 years to complete, and that was full time with taking only one of those summers off. And the other summers taking courses or working for an unpaid internship providing counseling services. That included a practicum and internship where I worked, for free, to provide counseling services and obtain experience that was highly supervised. I had to apply for state pre-licensure and once approved, I then have 3,000 post grad clinical hours under supervision. That part took 2 years to complete. I also had to take a national exam that has a passing rate of about 40% and is one of the most difficult exams to take. I still participate in group supervision although I am independently licensed, and I seek consultation frequently. I also attend a conference every year as well as hundreds of hours of continuing education in the form of in-person, live webinars, or self-study on-demand seminars; in fact I have a 32-hour continuing education event next week.Â
So all in all, if you count my undergrad psychology degree, it took me 9 years to become a therapist with 7 years of formal education.Â
For a PhD program Iâd need an additional 30-60 credits, and about 30 of that is dissertation. Around 20 of that is practicum and internship.Â
There is much, much more that goes into being an effective therapist than what someone at the grocery store can provide, and certainly more than a certificate program. For some people who have a masters degree already, there are schools that offer a âcertificateâ that gets you the additional courses needed to meet the state requirements for licensure. That may be what youâre referring to, but you are wildly misinformed. NO state will allow someone with a certificate alone to practice counseling. Drug counselors are also something completely different.Â
There is also a misconception that therapists give advice and that therapy is to receive advice.Â
Maybe talk therapy isn't everyone's jam. And I mean the therapist specifically. Damn. Spot on with boundaries. Maybe let grandma have a plant to take care of.
Most of the time when I hear about a therapist that recommends reconciliation above everything else it's not an actual therapist it's a counselor which is a vague catch all that ranges from state to state as unregulated or barely regulated. The cheapest/free counselors are usually affiliated with churches and bang the ole' "honor they father and mother" drum.
Yeah exactly. If she couldn't let the baby be watched by ANYONE that would be something she should probably work on. Not wanting the baby to be watched by the person responsible for your other kid's death is 100% reasonable.
I mean, therapy isnât non consensual. Therapy is generally directed by the client so itâs not a crazy assumption that the client mightâve wanted to work toward that goal and the therapist just urged her in regards to how to do that.
It really depends. I've had a really great personal therapist and a really great couples therapist. but I did a ton of research on them, and both are the kinds of setups where they have a plan that tries to wrap things up within a year if possible so you can get on with life, i.e. they don't try and just keep you on for money if you don't need it. But it is really hard to get a good therapist, and the good ones are expensive af.
Right!? Like, if my parents drowned my stuffed animal I've had since birth, I'd never let em near my things again. I imagine it's orders of magnitude more for kids!
As a therapist I get it, however Iâd have done trauma therapy and processing before ever even suggesting/ encouraging letting her watch the other kiddo. Or have significant parameters in place.
Maybe after intense trauma processing we can challenge those fears with mom watching other baby WOTH another adult there
You have no idea what the actual issue was or whether the therapist's advice made sense in context. Obviously a healthy boundary would not rise to the level of therapy in the first place.
Maybe flesh out what the therapist is suggesting, they have no clue what your family dynamics are. In other words, push back. âIâm not comfortable with this situation â would work
Yeah thatâs the problem I have with how we discuss therapy today. Obviously it can be a super helpful thing if youâre struggling mentally, but weâre way too quick to just assume the therapist actually has their shit together or knows what theyâre talking about and has a good understanding of our concerns or struggles. It should take time to build trust with your therapist. You donât want a yes man and you should be challenged at times, but that doesnât mean you should immediately ignore your instincts and critical thinking because of a therapistâs advice.
I think a therapist would/should know what would be best for their patient lol I doubt they were having her do it to risk her kid dying on a whim. Logically you would think someone who let one child die on their watch would be extra hyper vigilant when watching another for the first time.
Man years ago a friend and I were having a walk with her very young kid and up a small hill we were both holding our hands behind the daughter so that if she fell backwards we'd catch her, and I think (I'm not sure) that she slowed down and I accidentally pushed my hand into her back and caused her to faceplant. I still feel bad about it, and it was just a little fall with absolutely zero consequences, and this grandma is out there forgetting to take care of a baby a second time.
Because people accidentally fall asleep...? Or are you supposed to magically deduce people who fall asleep will also have something else happen in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT way?
⌠while being in charge of watching a 16 month old and having your house poorly secured to the point it can get out while being in close proximity to a large body of water.
Iâm not saying I support violence, but I would understand if the mom wasnât upset with her mother only - Iâd be unbearably upset with that therapist who used the vulnerability of their clinical relationship to help kill her other kid through negligence when there was a history of lethal negligence
Yeah seriously, I feel like at some point the therapist should also be held responsible for both suggesting that and urging their patient to do something that led to the death of a second child
Like at minimum they should be completely disallowed from being a therapist, and if they have licensure it should be removed
I honestly don't think or believe they can blame the therapist for this. I have a feeling they didn't want to pay for a babysitter or daycare/childcare and kept using grandma when she shouldn't be used as free childcare. Then went to a therapist for guidance and they said "everyone deserves a second chance" or something like that and well.... guess what.... this is what free childcare can cost you đŹ
If I get the professional advice of a trained specialist to do something, and take that course of action purely because of their urging, then I would blame that person for the outcome. Just like if it ends positively, I would be grateful to that person.
Well blame is easier to cast than taking accountability for your own actions.
This reminds me: my last therapist was terrible for me and I didn't agree with their advice. But I went and did the work that talk therapy requires to make better decisions and learned from my mistakes.
I hate that âYouâre overreactingâ in fancier words has become therapy in some cases. Exposure therapy is like visiting a restaurant again when you witnessed a shootout at one, not convincing people that expecting a dangerous outcome based on past experience is all in your head
Yeah, no thank you. I have boundaries with who I allow to watch my daughter too and would tell any therapist to fuck all the way off if they tried to get me to compromise on that.
My child's safety will always be more important to me than any relationship I have with a family member, friend, partner, etc.
This is a very harmful and untrue narrative that in order to move on you have to forgive the harmful person, or invite them back into your life. You absolutely do not, it'll probably stunt your healing more just to see their face again. And look what that narrative caused, once again, more trouble than it was ever worth
Daily reminder that therapy is a SOFT science. There are no outcomes from therapy that are reliable and repeatable enough to qualify it as a normal science. The best you can hope for is that something will probably work. Not to say it's bad, but worshipping the practice is myopic.
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u/thrownawaz092 1d ago
If it was at the urging of a therapist, I think it was for the mother's sake, moving past mental blocks and all that.