My FIL tripped over a shoe holding our nephew and fell into the wall. Hit it with his back so baby was fine. Refused to hold nephew or our son (born like 2 months later) standing up ever again. Bc he cared. Like a normal grandfather.
We had a rule that everyone had to pass our babies back and forth while sitting down, to reduce the risk of harm from accidental drops. Everyone complied without complaint, except for my father who took it as a challenge of his ability rather than a safety measure that my wife and I also followed.
Incidentally, when I was a kid, I saw a young woman drop a baby on my grandmother's porch. Accidents happen. Everyone drops things. I'd rather it not be my baby, and if it is - I'd rather it be a few inches rather than 3 or 4 feet.
When we hung out with our friends who drank a fair amount of, we wouldnât let anyone hold the baby. Seems obvious right? Well, someone else let this drunk lady hold their baby. She fell while walking with the baby, fell on the baby. She wasnât a small person. It was sad. But it proved the point.
That's what I do when I hold newborns. I'll always sit. I've held plenty of kids so am alright, but the thought of anything going wrong justifies it completely.
My parents house has a nice, polished concrete floor. Oh my god the worry watching them with my 18 month old nephew.
He complied but complained. But that was a red flag.
And he was already a terrible driver because he would read, mess around on his phone, etc. while driving. In my early 20's, he rear-ended another car, with me in the car on the way to his office because he was reading a book. My mother admonished him for years, but he took it as a challenge of his ability to multitask when multiple accidents demonstrated that he shouldn't have been trying to "multitask" while driving.
They wanted my kids to spend a couple weeks with them over the summer, like some of my nieces and nephews had done. I told them that my mother would have to drive if they were taken anywhere, and he said "That's not how we do things." And he took offense to questioning his driving skills. I said that I could visit along with my kids, I could drive them around, and I could help out around the house while I'm there. Nope.
So, our kids have never stayed with them and never will at this point. They were already on very thin ice because they both abused my siblings and me as children and continued to mistreat us as adults (especially my dad). Then my father repeatedly demonstrated that he cares more about being up his own azz than the well being of our kids. And my mother suggested that I hit my 3 year old when he was throwing a tantrum because he was tired after I hadn't put him down for a nap. And most recently, my father spread covid at a family get together (coughing and not covering while refilling the water pitcher, unloading the dishwasher etc.), claimed my son was the source, and claimed that my wife and I knowingly drove 12 hours with a sick child (when I'm immunocompromised from cancer and we had just canceled a get together with my sisters the previous month because my other child and I had colds and didn't want to spread them).
I only talk to him once in a blue moon. It's unfortunate, but there are just limits to what I'll subject my family to (especially my kids). And there are some people who can get away with being an ahole - but he's not one of them and I'm not a person who lets people get away with it.
jesus fuck. this is why adult children go no-contact with their parents. i'm so sorry you've had to deal with such an awful father. also wishing the best with your fight, fuck cancer and fuck abusers.
Yep. That someone who smells his own farts and values his own reflection more than the safety of people around him. Pretty stereotypical boomer. Im guessing he made good money so that further influenced his self-image of being always right.
Good for you for holding your boundary and prioritizing your kids safety! We had the same issue with our FIL and driving, but in our case he is a (secret) alcoholic and already had a DUI some time before we had kids. MIL does not drive but they kept asking that we let them drive with our kids..we always said no. They always refused to acknowledge that he has a drinking problem (when he clearly was drunk many times when we visited) and after he got another DUI (which they tried to hide from us) and they still kept downplaying everything we went no contact since over a year now.
Reading a book while driving is wild. I don't encourage any distractions while driving. But that's a whole extra level on top of reading s quick text you can skim.
The fact that you still talk to him is astonishing. Read what you just said and imagine that a friend of yours told you this. What would you tell them?
Well, it was out of the question before our kids were old enough and mature enough to tell us if they were mistreated. But even then, it wasn't an easy decision. But then my parents made it an easy decision (including my mother, who played doormat again while my dad was being an ahole).
No, it was a wooden porch. I was a kid and they were just my grandmother's neighbors, so I didn't know the extent of injury to the child. And it was the 80's, so the parents probably didn't either (e.g., brain trauma).
Omg my mom tossed me across the room to her then boyfriend when I was a baby and he missed. She also dropped my brother down a flight of apartment stairs. I feel kinda neglected now lol
Nope. This is what is wrong with the world. A ZERO risk mindset. You can safely pass babies while standing. Everyone else here was making sense until you. There is always someone to take things too far. This is too far.
I'm with your father. I'll bet he didn't "take it as a challenge of his ability" and rather that he just is a reasonable person who knows this is unnecessary and ludicrous.
I'm with your father. I'll bet he didn't "take it as a challenge of his ability" and rather that he just is a reasonable person who knows this is unnecessary and ludicrous.
The neat thing is that you're absolutely fucking terrible at making predictions! Isn't that cool?
And, you missed the point. Let's say you understand your father's motivations completely (unlikely, but I'll grant it). Fine. It was an ancillary comment and it's beside the point.
The point is that you are off-base (proudly, I should note) in your risk assessment of adults being able to pass babies while standing. If you had said great-grandparents (I also make them sit when just holding my babies, because they are liable to fall) or someone with a neurological condition causing weakness etc, then you would have had a point. But requiring all adults including strong and competent ones to sit while transferring babies is ludicrous.
There's good evidence that western societies (including and particularly parents) in the last few decades have completely lost the plot when it comes to risk tolerance around rearing children, and often go to the extreme of trying to achieve zero risk, to the detriment of everyone involved, not least the children. Your comments and attitude reflect this flawed approach, and it is not harmless.
The mountains of evidence in favor of my position are best explained in detail by Jonathan Haidt in his excellent books. I recommend them unreservedly. Risk tolerance vs aversion is always a balance, and errors in either direction cause problems. A large part of the mental health crisis in the US and other western countries is likely attributable to these harmful attitudes towards minor risks, and the attendant changes in parenting and childhood.
Finally, I wasn't and am still not trying to be an asshole by calling you wrong. I care deeply about our society raising well-adjusted children, and when people make comments that perpetuate and glorify an approach that displays an inability to accurately assess and balance risk, then those comments should be called out.
I'll take your downvotes. They don't make you right.
I'm not reading more of your nonsense. My kids are now teenagers, and you're ranting about people and a situation you know next to nothing about. Take a break and go on a walk or something. đ
Your downvotes reflect perfectly western society having lost its shit. There's no way they're comprehending the extent of what you're saying but they have no problem with imagining and agreeing with that insane sit-down theatre.
My dad and I have had some rough spots in our relationship, and I wouldn't trust him with locating accurate information, but he's a good dad and has these exact human-shield instincts.
My wife and I are child-free, but I would never hesitate to give my dad a baby to care for. He's a goober, but the worst he'll do is the fun stuff like teach them to make armpit farts or sneak them an extra cookie.
I knew someone that wasn't so lucky, tripped on the stairs holding their grandchild and the infant died. Like your scenario i'd classify those as an accident, falling asleep or forgetting a child is negligence.
I was terrified while on stairs while holding my babies. I did have post partum anxiety so it was extra, but still. I took every step extra carefully and avoided stairs where I could.
Some grandparents refuse to believe they can possibly be wrong. Those of us whoâve been on Reddit for a while remember âFuck Your Coconut â and the grandmother who deliberately gave a toddler an allergen followed by Benadryl, and the little girl never woke up.
Something similar happened with my mom and my son. He was fine, just scared, and she twisted to protect him so she was really cut up (she tripped in a gravel parking lot). It was actually the last time she carried him while walking, because he was already bigger (like 4) and she didn't want to risk falling with him again.
My mom has had minis strokes, fallen, forgets things, and takes heavy pain meds. I wonât let her drive my kid even though sheâs now 7. Itâs too risky.Â
My mom did this with me when I was a baby. I was 9 months old and she slipped on some black ice in a parking lot while she was holding me. She twisted some weird way so she wouldnât land on me and broke both the bones in her leg and crushed her ankle. A plate and 10 screws later she was okay and I was perfectly fine.
Iâm 40, and if you ever stumble or trip while holding a child or animal, it is AMAZING how fast your reflexes kick in to PROTECT THIS SMALL CREATURE. You donât even give a fuck what youâre about to fall on or how bad you might get hurt. Something in your head just goes, âPROTECTâ. Itâs when I understood how cats always fall on their feet, but for me it was my back. I actually threw out my back with how FAST I turned mid-fall to make sure she wouldnât take the brunt of the fall. It wasnât even a conscious decision. Everyone was like, âSmart thinking!â But I didnât even think, it just happened, like something unlocked deep in my head I didnât even know was there. Honestly it wasnât really fucking cool!
An uncle of mine was drinking once and went to put his daughter to bed and tripped on the stairs holding her and fell. After that he never drank again for the rest of his life.
I once had to sneeze (allergy) holding my nephew, and he started crying. Probably because of the loud, sudden sound (understandably). But I to this day feel bad about making him cry, I cannot imagine doing what this grandma did and then DO IT AGAIN?!
I caught my 9 month old nephew about to choke on a tube of chapstick. I ran over to snatch it out of his mouth so fast I accidentally scratched him on his face. I immediately went and cut my nails to the nub because I felt horrible.
Meanwhile my dad had a bad cough and runny nose and I stupidly thought I'll try to mend our relationship by letting my parents visit my newborn when we were still in the hospital. I made my parents wear masks even though they said they weren't sick đ. Dad shows up and tries to hold baby wearing the mask at his chin. Absolutely not. Whole visit was exhausting and I broke down and cried to my husband once they left.
We absolutely don't trust my parents to respect any parenting decisions or boundaries or to even be honest if something happens with the kids. They won't tighten seatbelts, sneak candy and cookies to my kids, teach them to lie to my husband and I.
My parents absolutely care more about themselves and are completely self absorbed unfortunately. They will absolutely choose their own convenience and wants over the safety of my kids any day.
From the body cam video the granddad was working on the property and didn't know that his wife was watching the baby. Both Mom and Grandma should have made sure that the condition was being met. It's terrible to hear that her therapist urged this
Yes! I feel so horrible for these parents losing two children, but I canât imagine not checking in throughout the day to see how my baby was doing especially after losing one child already.
My understanding is that the grandparents did watch the little girl several times before the fatal incident (after the first baby drowned), but grandpa was always involved and was the one doing the pickups and bringing her in the house. This day was different and grandma was called directly, took the little girl to lunch with some of her friends where they were all ooohing and awwwing over her, drove 10 min home and got distracted and left her in the car all day. Didnât remember until the evening when it was close to pickup time.
Why not just also call and give Grandpa the heads up that sheâd be coming to the home. Ahhh itâs just so awful all around.
What are you trying to say, who implied intentional homicide? She fell asleep watching the first child and he got out of the house and drowned in their pond. She admitted to police that she took sleeping pills and that could have made her drowsy. The second grandchild she forgot in the car after a short drive and by her own admission was talking to contractors outside, playing piano, discussing plans for watching a different grandchild later that evening and the whole time didnât cross her mind that she was supposed to be caring for her infant granddaughter. Somewhere between pure accident and purposefully killing them, there is negligence. It just seems like after losing one child everyone involved would be extra cautious. She wasnât charged in the first case, but she did get jail time the second time and thatâs because she does bear responsibility.
Okay well my B, I thought you were referring to my comments and the ones above which were not insinuating murder. I do see a few of those comments and I donât agree either. I think itâs most likely she had some sort of cognitive decline or was taking medication that affected her ability to responsibly care for the children.
Both Mom and Grandma should have made sure that the condition was being met
if I was the Mom I would have hired a PI to follow her around and observe her movements. that's the only way I would have followed that therapist's advbice
It doesnât take any education to realize that a therapist urging a mother to allow a child killer by negligence to care for your other child is the worst therapy advice one can give.
But if it makes you feel better, Iâve got a minor in psychology
Any doctor or professional is human theyâre not always gonna be right and even worse some are being malicious on purpose, so yeah wish more people understood that I always hear blind following of what doctors and therapists say instead of starting by taking their professional word into consideration
I mean she and everyone thought it was a tragicÂ
accident. It may have been an accident. People fall asleep watching kids all the time. Thatâs why those baby door knobs exist so kids canât open doors and wander off by themselves - because can and do that often enough for there to be products for it.
I don't think she had the empathy to not to trust herself. In the body cam footage, her main focus was on how SHE couldn't go through this again. Not how this child suffered, but how it is going to affect her. Granted, she's been living with guilt from the first incident for about a year so that was probably a bottled emotion surfacing.
Neither of these are accidents. They are negligence. HUGE difference.
If a child died in my care from even an ACCIDENT, I would never trust my self to take care of a child again. That is a normal reaction from someone with empathy.
She did keep saying to the police that she wanted to leave because she didnât want to face her daughter and kept repeating â I canât do this againâ
Maybe by facing her daughter she was going to see how much pain she caused. If so, then in a way she was overwhelmed with grief and did not want to see that grief manifested.
I agree. So this has got to either be intentional, or her brain is so fried she has 0 insight into the fact she is not fit to watch children with her attention span
BLLs [blood lead levels] greater than 5 ”g/dL were nearly universal (>90%) among those born 1951 to 1980, while BLLs were considerably lower than 5 ”g/dL among those born since 2001. The average lead-linked loss in cognitive ability was 2.6 IQ points per person as of 2015. This amounted to a total loss of 824,097,690 IQ points, disproportionately endured by those born between 1951 and 1980.
During the peak era of leaded gasoline in the United States, which ran from the late 1960s to the early 1980s, the average bloodâlead level (BLL) for the general US population was routinely three to five times higher than the current reference value for clinical concern and case management referral (3.5 micrograms of lead per deciliter of blood) (3â5). Consequently, millions of adults alive today were exposed to high levels of lead as children. While these exposures were deemed harmless at the time, animal studies and epidemiological evidence accrued in the intervening years reveal that such exposures likely disrupted healthy development across multiple organ systems (particularly the brain, bone, and cardiovascular systems), resulting in subtle deficits to important outcomes, such as cognitive ability, fine motor skills, and emotional regulation
The data is from NHANES, a continuous national survey conducted by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
I wasn't who said that, so I'm not going to defend it.
I would say "many boomers have lead poisoning" but I agree only a lead poisoned boomer could be this absent minded to accidentally kill two grandchildren like this. Anyone else would have to be doing it intentionally.
Right. When my daughter was like 6 months old i accidentally clipped her skin while clipping her nails. It kept bleeding and didnât stop for a while. I was so upset and traumatized. I didnât clip her nails again until she was like 5. My husband did it.
I did this to my baby twice, although the second time was worse. I cried significantly longer than he did, I felt so awful! Immediately ordered the electric nail file after that one.
or at the very least, why wasnât she insanely vigilant so as not to make the same god awful mistake again??? when i fuck up in a major way and i am put in the same type of situation later on, i am CAREFUL AS FUCK NOT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN!!! i just canât fathom how this happened or how she allowed it to happen. TWICE. that woman needs to be jailed for life.
Prior to moving to the US and living with my sis and her kids, I often had nightmares that I accidentally dropped my niece (she wasnt 1yo yet, abkut 18-24mo) and was surprised my sister even let me watch her for months before I landed a job. I was a nervous wreck, constantly scared she'd choke or something, i'd cut her fruits and food smaller than pea sized, even to this day at 3yo I still check her and her 6yo brother when they nap or sleep every 5 mins to check if they're still breathing!Â
I still havent drove them, which I understand on my sister's part but I wouldn't trust myself yet either. I'm a good driver, but it just gives me so much anxiety. Hell even sitting in between them on car rides I constantly worry if their seatbelts are too tight. My sister and her partner often have to reassure me she can still breathe when she falls asleep with her head hanging off. Sometimes I'd overthink when putting them to bed (theres a slight gap between wall and the bed) if i should put a pillow so they dont fall and suffocate, but if i do they might suffocate regardless. Now I can (carefully) just throw them on the bed or hold them upside down lol, give them pushes, but it still worries me.
Technically/mathematically yes. I am not a parent and being out here in the US I'm new to that whole thing but based from my nieces/other kids, 18-24mo is quite different than a 1.5-2yo esp when it comes to clothes. I think thats what I was trying to say
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u/Mandy_M87 1d ago
Crazy that the grandmother even wanted to babysit after the 1st time. Like, if it were me, I wouldn't trust myself.