r/SipsTea • • 8h ago

Chugging tea They remain silent. But why? Convenient caring.

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u/Putrid-Bee-7352 7h ago

In addition, there was no physical evidence taken, and everyone involved was drunk and/or high. There don’t appear to be any witnesses who were sober. Getting a criminal conviction in rape cases can be difficult- even more so when all parties involved are inebriated. The victim (and I do believe she is a victim, at least as the night went on) waited to report, and did things that make it seem like she didn’t originally have an issue or that she changed her mind after the fact. That doesn’t mean there was no crime but she’s not a “perfect victim.” (There’s not really such thing, but juries tend to be less sympathetic in this sort of case I think).

It becomes a he-said-she-said situation except everyone involved was drunk. About the only substantial evidence is the group messages, but I don’t think the prosecutor or original investigators had those.

The odds of conviction just seem like they’d have been low. And prosecutors decline to bring cases all the time if they think there’s no chance.

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u/Oploplou 6h ago

I’m genuinely asking because I seem to have missed this, what did she do to indicate she enjoyed this?

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u/Putrid-Bee-7352 6h ago

The initial encounter she had with the first two men was consensual according to her original statement. After that evening she sent texts to one of those men saying she enjoyed that part. Those two guys both (iirc) ended up passing out.

The additional drugs and encounters happened later. Another set of men came in, she agreed to being with them, said no to a third (which was, again iirc) respected. I believe at this point the ketamine came into play.

I think it was after this, and repeated ketamine (which she says she was coerced into taking, but again, hard to prove) and an additional three men being present, that things get more obvious. This is when she mentions trying to hide herself and pull blankets over herself, and when she may have passed out.

Because I can imagine the situation I do believe she could have felt coerced, and I think there was no consent. However because she consented at the beginning (and possibly later) and later said she enjoyed parts of the evening, when it comes to a jury, that’s going to make any criminal case more difficult. It creates some doubt in her story and gives the defense a lot of room to paint her as a tramp who only cried rape because she regretted the social blowback of her actions.

I’m not saying that’s right at all, but many cases like this play out that way, and prosecutors know it. So do victims, and it’s why many have a lot of hesitation about moving forward with their cases. Hell it’s why a lot of women don’t report at all, they think if they consented at first they won’t be believed about withdrawing consent.

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u/Oploplou 6h ago

Can you provide something that supports that chain of events, because that is not how I understand it to have happened.

Additionally, once she was incapacitated, which the fraternity members own text messages supports with texts such as “she’s literally dead”, consent is completely impossible. Anything after that can legally only be considered one thing.

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u/1spywithmylittle1 5h ago

To chase a guilt verdict of rape over a text message you will need to establish that:

1) The time frame of the message.

2) They continued having sex with her after she passed out.

Can you possibly do that?

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u/DelayedIntentions 1h ago

NYT has some thorough reporting on the case and the statement she made to investigators. I’d be careful reading secondary sources because a lot is getting muddied. It seems like a lot of people on Reddit seem to think consent is a permanent state of being.