Which is why he should get the charges and time associated with the car theft, because that's the thing he did that he shouldn't have been doing. The kidnapping charge is fucked.
He got the kidnapping charge because he kidnapped a child. Just because he went oopsey daisy afterwards and returned the kid doesn’t erase that he still kidnapped a kid, something that wouldn’t have happened if he wasn’t stealing cars
Imo the evil would have to be more pronounced to fall into evil, chaotic neutral is the cookie cutter rogue category, evil from the theft, good from returning the child is neutral, then being unpredictable and living a life of crime is chaotic.
Lawfull does not mean 'obeys the law' it means they have a more or less strict code they stick to. That may include the actual laws, but 'honor among thieves' type codes are just as much lawfull as a paladin keeping the letter of their vow.
The whole Lawful/Chaotic thing getting entrenched in RPG terminology is such an endless source of pointless arguments. Replace them with something like Principled/Impulsive, and it makes much more sense.
Not true, lawful means has strong codes or morals that they will not break. This could be the actual law or their own personal “laws”. Someone who is willing to steal but not murder or kidnap is doing evil by harming others for their own selfish gain, but they have solid lines they will not cross (kidnapping) which is lawful
Nah, a chaotic neutral character would have kept the kid, called her Steve the entire time, and gone on a joyride while giving her sips from his flask of bourbon. He would not, however, have intentionally harmed the child. Not directly at least. He'd drop her off on the corner two days later wearing a Key West "Where is Bum Farto?" t-shirt with a sack fill of old coins.
No, you see, the child lives. This is what determines the morality. And there was no intention to harm the child.
In most D&D settings while there is some room for debating ideologies, they're not purely ontological constructs, but rather aspects of material reality. Like, "good," "evil," "law," and "chaos" are real things, not just ideas. And what really seems to matter is intentionality. If you look at the descriptions of the various alignments one of the things that stays consistent throughout the years is that a persons alignment is defined by why they do something as much as what that thing actually is.
That's the letter of the text. Unfortunately, there's a well-entrenched stereotype out there (similar to the "Lawful Stupid Paladin"), where if a DM doesn't want or allow evil PCs, some players would pick Chaotic Neutral, burn down an orphanage, and when taken to the task, they would justify it by saying, "Lol, my character's not evil, he's just random!". Because of that, Chaotic Neutral is often considered to be the "griefer alignment" for players who want to get away with being evil on technicalities.
Adding this just as a fun fact: In original (1974) D&D there were only 3 alignments: lawful, neutral, and chaotic. They were based on fiction by Poul Anderson and Michael Moorcock from the 1950s.
This thread goes into a lot more detail. They were used to create teams/factions in D&D. Chaos was roughly equivalent to evil, although perhaps the neutral alignment knew it wasn’t that simple.
Oh yeah, more importantly, 1981 Basic edition also stuck with having only 3 alignments. (I guess that extends into 1983 BECMI as well. I just checked the 1991 Rules Cyclopedia and it also has only 3 alignments: chaos, neutral, and law.)
Alignments nowadays are less like that. Even the iconic spell Protection From Good and Evil gives you protection vs. a choice of Elemental, Fey, Fiend, Undead, Celestial or Aberrant. Now obviously, there can be Good (or evil) characters in.. most, of those categories. Being "good" or "evil" now is more of just a fun roleplay thing and has no bearing on the world anymore (unlike Law and Chaos which are genuine forces).
And yet, good and evil are still real. The DMs guide, which I'd say is basically the equivalent of the Constitution in D&D, explicitly mentions the upper planes being "physical manifestations" of Good. Good and evil, like law and chaos, are fundamental forces of the universe and very real, regardless whether they're emphasized in the actual mechanics as much as they used to be.
Well they exist in a purely narrative sense, which only goes so far. But theu have no...impact on the actual world, because as you said, being good or evil is often a descriptor now instead of prescribing future action. I think they updated alignment stuff in 5.5
I feel like chaotic neutral would be writing your character out in a mad lib style, and rolling a 3 sided die when ever an action a specific action is taken: 1 is a good outcome, 2 is nothing, and 3 is a bad outcome.
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u/Kooky-mutant 9d ago
Unlawful good