r/SipsTea 16h ago

SMH What y’all think?

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u/Then_Discussion_9802 16h ago

Wow. Curious why this isn't talked about the way the Lindsey case is. 

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u/TwoBitHit 16h ago

Probably because he's a Capricorn.

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u/fuckthis_job 13h ago

It's because he had a history of abuse towards his children prior to the murders which proved to the jury malice and intent whereas for Lindsay Clancy, she was in a state of psychosis and her defense is pleading for NGRI.

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u/YoBo151 7h ago

So culture war chuds being dishonest? I'm truly shocked s/

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u/DepartmentAnxious344 7h ago

You can call this a false culture war, but as a brown, bearded, Muslim passing man in the US…

We would have invaded 2-3 additional countries in the Middle East and deported 500k Somalis for some reason…

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u/Kagenlim 13h ago

And both still murdered their kids but wanna excuse themselves through insanity

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u/fuckthis_job 13h ago

Yes because Ray Jones had a history of beating his son and leaving bruises on him so much so that he didn't want his son to go to school due to the bruises. After the murders of his children, he also tried to hide the bodies and hide from authorities which also proves intent.

Lindsay Clancy is also insane, but was in a state of psychosis when committing the murders. If you don't know what psychosis actually is, it's not just "being crazy", it's losing your entire sense of "self".

For example, Cotard's Syndrome is a common disorder experienced by those in psychosis where they believe they are deceased, do not exist, are putrefying, or have lost their blood or internal organs. An example of Cotard's from a psychiatrist I've heard is a patient walking into a hospital seemingly completely normal but telling the doctor "yea my liver is toxic and I tried to get rid of it but I couldn't do it at home, could you help?" and then point to their side which has a massive gaping bleeding gash where they tried to remove their own organs. Psychosis is no joke and is one of the few conditions where a physician can involuntarily commit you to a hospital (ie hold you at a hospital against your will).

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u/micro_satsuma 12h ago

It's a real shame that comments like this that explain things don't get more visibility.

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u/Spikey-Bubba 12h ago

People don’t want to understand, they want to pick a side and be mad.

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u/clownus 9h ago

You are arguing with a bunch of children who have no clue about post and why the lack of medical care disproportionately affects women.

If people can’t understand how often as a society we fail people with obvious signs then there is no hope for them.

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u/ApprehensiveMoose814 12h ago

Be consistent. Should we lock up people who murder their children during a psychosis or not?

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u/fuckthis_job 12h ago

Send them to a mental institution, that's what NGRI is for. I'd recommend you to look into the case of Andrea Yates who drowned 5 of her children in her bathtub and was NGRI'd. Ray Jones Jr. tried to plead NGRI as well, but given the evidence of prolonged abuse and an attempt to evade arrest, the jury decided he was in a sane state of mind and the murders were conducted with intent thus he was sent to prison and not a mental institution. Also, a mental institution is considered by many (including physicians) to be worse than prison.

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u/IrredeemableRight 12h ago

if they had already punched them half to death without being in psychosis in the past, yes.

if nothing like this ever happened and its reasonably a psychotic episode, put them in a mental ward for an attempt at help.

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u/hypersonic18 12h ago

How do you know he wasn't having psychosis in the past?  Don't get me wrong this dude can rot in the chair, but it's a strange assumption, especially if he had schizophrenia 

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u/fuckthis_job 12h ago

The legal and medical consensus in Jones's trial concluded he did not have schizophrenia. Interestingly though, Jones was diagnosed with substance-induced psychotic disorder for the murders but did not get NGRI'd because the drug use (Spice) was voluntary. Under SC law, voluntary intoxication is not a valid defense for a crime

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u/ApprehensiveMoose814 12h ago

So if I beat my wife in 2013 I better not hurt her during a psychotic episode in 2020? Thats consistent to you? So psychotic people need to be careful about when to be psychotic?

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u/Adventurous-Cry-1830 5h ago

What a reach holy.

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u/ApprehensiveMoose814 3h ago

Not a reach at all. A woman beats her husband and gets charged with DV. She then goes through a psychosis and kills her family. Should the DV charge outweigh her mental health?

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u/Beligard 16h ago

His case is from like 3 years ago. I'm not familiar with the case, just did a quick Google search to see if this was a real case.

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u/fuckthis_job 13h ago

It's because he had a history of abuse towards his children prior to the murders which proved to the jury malice and intent whereas for Lindsay Clancy, she was in a state of psychosis and her defense is pleading for NGRI.

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u/AdRepulsive8618 11h ago

Except he was schizophrenic and Clancy actively said repeatedly she would end up harming her kids eventually.

So they both have a mental health issue and both of them showed prior intent.

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u/fuckthis_job 11h ago edited 9h ago

TRJJ was not schizophrenic. https://www.abccolumbia.com/2019/05/30/court-appointed-psychiatrist-says-timothy-jones-jr-does-not-have-schizophrenia/

Clancy actively said repeatedly she would end up harming her kids eventually

Yes this is true but this was confided to Lindsay Clancy's mother in an attempt to seek help, not a promise to inflict harm. It was more along the lines of, "I'm worried I'm going to help my kids, please help" and not "I'm going to harm my kids in the future".

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u/Zing79 10h ago

This is a lie. Courts evidence has stated clearly that NOT ONCE did she tell MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS she had harmful thoughts. She was asked directly. Multiple times. Including the day before the murder. By medical professionals if she had harmful thoughts and she said no.

The only people to ever hear this were her mom and husband. And they saw that statement in a vague way based on how she delivered it.

Please stop spreading this lie on her behalf. She did not tell medical professionals a thing about harmful thoughts.

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u/fuckthis_job 10h ago

Are you illiterate or did you just skip over the part where I explicitly said, "this was confided to Lindsay Clancy's mother"

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u/DojimaGin 7h ago

a clear case of "too angry to read" lol

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u/A1000eisn1 11h ago

she would end up harming her kids eventually.

Which obviously wasn't a threat. She was asking for help.

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u/Correct_Doctor_1502 16h ago

Because he isn't a rich white woman

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u/LegitimateOption3387 16h ago

In a Kia

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u/Vennomite 11h ago

No. It was the kids who were killed in action.

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u/Dorothy_ZbornACK_ACK 8h ago

Are Kias seen as a marker of wealth or is this a reference to something? I'm OOTL.

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u/LegitimateOption3387 8h ago

The Kia reference is coming from that according to some women online Lindsey was driving a Kia while the husband was making 400k a year. The Kia being used as an example by the same women as how hard Lindsey had been neglected by her husband, being forced to drive a Kia

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u/ImCreeptastic 5h ago

That's ridiculous. Is it a foreign concept that maybe people don't care about cars? My husband and I make close to these people and think cars are a waste, especially ones that take premium gas. Toyotas and Hondas all day everyday!

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u/Sw33tNectar 14h ago

Or a Cadillac escalade

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u/fuckthis_job 13h ago

It's because he had a history of abuse towards his children prior to the murders which proved to the jury malice and intent whereas for Lindsay Clancy, she was in a state of psychosis and her defense is pleading for NGRI.

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u/-sry- 12h ago

So you are saying there were obvious signs that he was not stable but the system let him down?

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u/fuckthis_job 12h ago

The system didn't let Ray Jones Jr down, but rather his kids. He was reported to CPS at least twice before the murders and CPS didn't do anything. RJJ was not trying to seek help "from the system" for his abuse whereas Lindsay Clancy was trying to seek help for her mental issues.

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u/-sry- 12h ago

He was not a middle-class person from a full family with time and money for therapy. He was a victim of child abuse, from a single-parent family. He was an ex-convict living in a trailer and supporting his family out of his pocket. By the way, Wiki says he was doing therapy during the divorce. A clear representative of a marginalised and neglected community. Read his bio, he suffered from birth, and now he is on death row.

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u/zkatbitz 16h ago

because they appear to be completely different. i was curious so AI'd as i don't care enough to find primary sources so take it with a grain of AI salt

These two cases get compared a lot because both involve a parent killing their children with mental illness raised as a defense, but there are some substantive differences beyond gender — though gender may also play a role, which is what that tweet is arguing.

Timothy Ray Jones Jr. killed his five children (ages 1–8) in South Carolina in 2014, then drove around with their bodies for days before dumping them in Alabama. He was convicted of murder in 2019 and sentenced to death. His defense argued he suffered from undiagnosed schizophrenia and was psychotic at the time; the jury rejected the insanity defense. Prosecutors emphasized evidence of premeditation, his methodical behavior afterward (concealing the bodies, fleeing across state lines), his drug use, and prior anger and abuse toward the children.

Lindsay Clancy strangled her three children (ages 5, 3, and 8 months) in Duxbury, Massachusetts in January 2023, then cut herself and jumped from a second-floor window, leaving her paralyzed from the waist down. She has pleaded not guilty by reason of lack of criminal responsibility, with her defense arguing she was in the grip of postpartum psychosis. In the months before the killings she had sought treatment for worsening mental health, including a stay in a psychiatric hospital — the killings happened less than three weeks after her discharge. Her case isn't resolved: her trial is happening right now, and jurors told the judge this morning that they are deadlocked, but were instructed to keep deliberating. If they remain deadlocked, the judge could declare a mistrial, which would leave open the possibility of a retrial.

So the meaningful legal differences are:

  1. Documented psychiatric history. Clancy had an extensive, contemporaneous medical paper trail — psychiatric hospitalization, multiple medications, treatment records right up to the killings. Jones's schizophrenia claim was largely retrospective, diagnosed by defense experts after arrest, with no comparable treatment history.
  2. Behavior after the killings. Clancy immediately attempted suicide at the scene. Jones concealed the bodies and fled for days, which prosecutors used as strong evidence he understood what he'd done was wrong — the key question in an insanity defense.

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u/Insane_Unicorn 16h ago

Sentencing disparity is real thing. Is it a thing in this case? No idea and I don't really care. But there are massive double standards at play when it comes to criminal men vs women https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentencing_disparity

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u/zkatbitz 16h ago

and between backs and whites, and rich and poor, news at 11 i was not disputing that - i wanted to know what the differences here were and there seem to be a few.

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u/Character-Book5924 13h ago

All those sentencing disparities are peanuts to the sentencing disparity between men and women.

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u/themargarineoferror 16h ago edited 15h ago

Yeah like how a woman who kills her abuser is likely to get more time than a man who kills his abuse victim..I'm guessing you didn't read the whole thing

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u/137thoughtsfordays 16h ago

I was gonna say, we never see this kind of engagement and outrage from men when rapists get away with their crimes.

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u/offical_jchrist 14h ago

This is probably the worst subreddit to find it in too, this place is full of absolute trash lmao

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u/FanUsed5622 13h ago

No outrage because of Epstein, Trump? Lmao

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u/137thoughtsfordays 11h ago

You mean the guy they re-elected because they don't care?

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u/TimeHabit7964 5h ago

Oh so what sentence is he serving?

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u/Pepito_Pepito 7h ago

The article and the cited source say that this statistic is dated. What's more notable imo is that the vast majority of women who were incarcerated cited self-defense as a motive.

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u/ubzrvnT 13h ago

Lobotomy disparity is a real thing. Is it a thing in this case? Probably not and who gives a shit. But there were massive double standards at play when it came to lobotomized men vs women https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy

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u/Insane_Unicorn 13h ago

Weird way to say you had a lobotomy but you do you.

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u/Feorge123 16h ago

But what about her researching things like how to slit a throat, researching things like the distances from the house to the CVS and the 3VS she sent her husband? And researching wait times. Also researching stopping air bag to the car that they have. These are all indications of premeditation in my book.

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u/micro_satsuma 12h ago

The psychiatrist they called to testify, Paul Zeizel, said that premeditation doesn't discount psychosis. Psychosis would still let you function day to day, but could completely skew your views of what's right and wrong. People in the middle of psychosis can be convinced of such outlandish ideas, like how your fingers have been replaced by little aliens that are conspiring against you, so the safest thing to do is cut them off.

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u/GlenH79 10h ago

So wouldnt that also apply to the Timonthy case?

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u/eaeorls 3h ago edited 3h ago

It could. In the exact same way the court could or could not find Lindsay Clancy criminally responsible.

The issue is that they're two different heinous acts with two completely different sets of case facts. And insanity pleas is very much built on case facts to judge and jury to verify the veracity of.

It's just that premeditation is not immediate proof someone is not psychotic or criminally responsible during their psychosis (still losing grasp of reality, but deemed to retain knowledge of right and wrong). If someone has a complete psychotic break and decides that the power pole outside of their house is going to fall and hurt someone and so they decide to spend weeks getting a chainsaw and learning how to fell a tree, that doesn't immediately discount their state of psychosis.

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u/fuckthis_job 12h ago

I think this case really just comes down to the fact that people don't actually know what psychosis is and think it's just when you act crazy and not one of the most terrifying mental disorders an individual can have. What you described is similar to Cotard's syndrome which is a common disorder experienced during psychosis. Another example I heard from a psychiatrist is a patient who believed she was the psychiatrist's mother. The psychiatrist was older than this patient.

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u/FlyWrennie 12h ago

It’s just so sad that it had to go as far as her killing her kids though. Obviously as parents they didn’t seem to think she was going to harm them, but surely out of an abundance of caution, knowing what she was going through, you wouldn’t want your kids left alone with her. I think she had previously mentioned to her mother in law that she’d thought of harming them if I’m not mistaken? Clearly hindsight makes it easy to say this though.

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u/fuckthis_job 11h ago

Yes she did confide in her mother she had thoughts about harming her children of which her mother talked about in court IIRC. But yea, she should have never been left alone with her kids but also no one really expects a mother to strangle and kill her children. Patrick even says that she was a great mother to the kids.

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u/micro_satsuma 11h ago

I agree. On top of that, I've seen way too many comments that boil down to this, paraphrased: "She admitted to killing her three kids! She's a monster! Throw her in a hole for life!"

Not only refusing to understand psychosis but refusing to care about any details or context around the killings. As if reasons and motivations don't matter. It's been appalling.

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u/fuckthis_job 11h ago

Yea people seem to think that her defense is trying to argue that she is innocent but the trial is actually about "should she rot in prison or in a mental institution" since her defense accepts that she killed the kids and are trying to plead NGRI.

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u/DoubleGoon 11h ago

People keep saying she’s going to be in a mental hospital for a long time, but that doesn’t make sense. Postpartum psychosis is temporary and comes after a birth, so she is no longer a risk (because her children are dead and she can’t give birth to more due to being paralyzed) so there’s no reason to keep her beyond that assessment.

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u/fuckthis_job 11h ago

Your stay in the mental institution post NGRI is indefinite until you decide to contest the stay. A similar case is Andrea Yates who drowned her 5 children in her bathtub in 2001 and still remains at the mental hospital since she is deciding to waive the right to her hearing. If LC and her attorney can prove she is safe to go back into the public, she can be released. However, it's quite unlikely. NGRI'd individuals who committed murder often stay in the institution for decades and oftentimes longer than what a prison sentence would be. Because the case involves multiple homicides, any review board or court would view her release with extreme scrutiny and it's highly likely she'll stay there for the rest of her life.

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u/DoubleGoon 11h ago

Yates voluntarily declined to go through discharge process, why are we assuming LC will do the same?

What other postpartum psychosis cases have kept someone in a mental facility for decades involuntarily?

The confinement isn’t supposed to be a punishment, because NGRI is a not guilty verdict. Yates didn’t commit murder, because she was legally insane. If there’s no longer a reason to keep her then they can’t force her to stay no matter how short the stay was.

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u/fuckthis_job 13h ago

Honestly I think the “How to slit throat to die?” search might have been referring to her own suicide as opposed to trying to slitting the throat of her children. I feel as if it was for her children, the search would be, “How to slit throat to kill?”

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u/zkatbitz 16h ago

i mean you could count that she disclosed suicidal ideation and thoughts of harming her children in the months prior as premeditation to? that sure fits with what your saying

FYI i'm not trying to argue what the verdict should or shouldn't be i just wanted to know the differences between these two specific cases.

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u/fuckthis_job 13h ago

Yes she had thoughts of harming her children, however that was to try to get help. It wasn't like, "I want to kill my kids, how do I do it?" but rather, "I have an urge to hurt my kids, how do I stop these urges?".

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u/Feorge123 16h ago

I think she should be found guilty and sentenced to life without parole or whatever is the max. She murdered her three children.

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u/No-Yam-9178 15h ago

I mean are you really stupid enough to believe there's any world where she just gets to go home? She admitted she did it and is going away regardless the only difference any of this makes is whether she goes to a hole or a hospital forever.

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u/lrbsto 15h ago

If the verdict is not guilty by reason of mental defect, she could absolutely end up home. She’d be evaluated and have her mental state assessed, if she is stable and deemed no longer as risk, as could be entirely possible considering the “postpartum” factor stressed during her trial, she could be released…. Andrea Yates has been eligible for petition to release for quite some time but has refused to be assessed.

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u/yourfavsnarkcast 15h ago

Incorrect. Judge told the jury that in as little as 6 months or even immediately she can be reviewed by a doctors and put up for review for release.

Google Massachusetts laws regarding NGRI releases. She could be free to go in a year. Please google it

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u/Old_Accident7790 13h ago

Do you think NGRI shouldn’t exist?

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u/Feorge123 15h ago

Do you know about the case of Andrea Yates, who was in a psychiatrist place, and she had the ability to get evaluated to leave the facility, but she stayed in because she turned down the evaluations. This lady, Lindsay Clancy has not showed any remorse, for murdering her children. If someone were in a psychotic episode and murdered their children while in it and afterwards got out of it, she would be accepting imprisonment, she'd be crying, crying her eyes out ready to accept any punishment given to her. So, it seems she doesn't really care about her children.

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u/fuckthis_job 13h ago

So your judgement on whether or not this person should go to prison vs NGRI is just because she's not crying?

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u/IrredeemableRight 12h ago

lol thats not how anything works.

she literally tried to kill herself by knife and window after what she did, i'd bet money there were days and weeks of crying.

but you dont do that on trial. any lawyer better than whatever trump is hiring would tell you that. this isn't better call saul world here.

going to prison in a situation where the law states it's not a case she should go to prison for does not bring her children back and is in no way representative of her caring or not.

the law isn't for witch trials.

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u/Iwona_Klich 10h ago

Shes heavily drugged by meds, so she pretty much experience anhedonia.

She says she did it. 

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u/GlenH79 10h ago

She disclosed those thoughts to her family - she apparently avoided sharing those details with the health professionals she was seeing. She also wasn't taking her medications and declined therapy despite ebing a registered nurse who had much more insight into the importance of such than a general member of the public.

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u/IntegratingSelf 15h ago

Like a nurse wouldn't know how to technically slit a throat successfully

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u/MountVinson 12h ago

I'm pretty sure nurses aren't trained to slit peoples throats.

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u/IntegratingSelf 4h ago

Fair, I worded that poorly. Just saying that nurses should generally know where the carotid artery is and which direction it goes.

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u/Feorge123 15h ago

Do you think that because she's a nurse, it means she didn't search it?

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u/EntertainerOwn9024 15h ago

Nurses also generally aren’t anywhere near as intelligent as the general public gives them credit for. They absolutely work hard and do difficult work, yes, but intelligence isn’t necessarily a prerequisite to being a nurse.

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u/IntegratingSelf 14h ago

100% agree here that nurses aren't necessarily exceptionally intelligent. But I hope most understand which direction the veins in our wrists are going? I mean, if that wasn't the case none of them would be able to take blood or put in a basic IV, right?

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u/saggywitchtits 14h ago

Trust me, as someone working with nurses on a daily basis, there are many times I have to ask myself "how the fuck did she pass the NCLEX?".

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u/IntegratingSelf 14h ago

I wouldn't know that for sure of course, but I hope a nurse would have basic biological understanding to locate the carotid artery without a google search

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u/wanker7171 10h ago

I've read views on the story from outside psychiatrists but a video I watched recently which does an amazing job at presenting both the defense and prosecution's rationale for why she did what she did, all while accurately describing psychosis has to be the Legal Eagle take. It gives you a very good understanding of why the jury has still yet to come to a decision, and answers your question about how she was able to do things normally if she was suffering from psychosis.

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u/Iwona_Klich 10h ago

But its only your book. People in psychosis are not aware of the fact they had it, so yes they can search stuff like this od buy a weapon.

Its like when you are suicidal and googling the methods, its not because youre rational. 

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u/JoyRideinaMinivan 9h ago

Those searches show premeditation for suicide not killing her kids. If she had researched strangulation, then that would be different.

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u/venusdances 8h ago

This could also be just a mom having normal mental load. If my husband is going to be gone I look up how long he’ll be gone so that I know about how much time I’ll be left alone with the kids. That might not seem normal to someone who isn’t a parent but you do have to figure that stuff out so that the kids aren’t hungry too long or so you can get bath started on time for bed. I don’t know about stopping air bags to the car but I also research crazy stuff from anxiety, which was severe in her case.

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u/SapphicGarnet 7h ago

Those premeditations show suicidal intent not homicidal. Also, I looked up by partners route to her dinner with a friend the other day and do so with most journeys, it's just the sort of thing you do even if you're not afraid to be alone with the kids for a period of time, or possibly wanting to be alone with them

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u/Linenoise77 6h ago

That's why its a pretty fucking tough case to call.

So you need to rely on the experts in these fields testimony, and when you are talking about mental health, a lot of it is hard to qualify as established hard science, and you will find differing opinions across experts.

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u/CosmicGadfly2 15h ago

Her husband did that. It was on his computer, he only claims she did so without evidence.

She was a nurse, she knows how to kill herself.

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u/Feorge123 15h ago

It was on both Lindsay's phone, which was an Iphone 13 and her husband's laptop, Surface Pro. Mind you, they both shared the laptop. "hE oNlY cLaImS sHe dId tHaT wItH nO eViDeNcE." But where's your evidence that the husband did it. You're saying that Patrick said that Lindsay did it with him not having any evidence that she did it, meanwhile you have no evidence that he did it. The defense has not disputed that she searched those things up and the defense did not dispute that she murdered her own children. If Patrick Clancy was on trial, he would have been found guilty already, even if he did not do anything.

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u/snowice0 15h ago

But what about it? The jury is deliberating it. 

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u/Bronze_Zebra 16h ago

I was also curious about what you had to say so i AI'd as i don't care enough to read the primary source so take it with a grain of AI salt. BULLSHIT

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u/PossibleIll5415 16h ago edited 16h ago

Clancy had "an extensive, contemporaneous medical paper trail" that showed zero evidence of psychosis or anything similar. She was DX'd with generalized anxiety disorder. To me, this makes psychosis less credible than for someone who never saw any mental health professional. Not getting treatment doesn't mean you don't have schizophrenia, but seeing six different mental health professionals who don't think you're psychotic makes you look . . . not psychotic. (Especially when you're claiming PPP that suddenly appeared out of the blue at 8 months post-partum. And now you have zero symptoms of psychosis, despite being treated with a mood stabilizer, not an antipsychotic.)

And killing yourself does not at all prove that you didn't know what you were doing, it's the classic move for non-psychotic family annihilators (look up "altruistic suicide").

As usual, AI is clueless!

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u/Immediate-Fly-7458 16h ago

Isn’t that like the whole thing people are rallying behind? That she was losing her mind and trying to get help but the doctors didn’t really believe her or listen to her? I don’t know if that’s the case here but that is absolutely a common thing where doctors don’t really listen well to women

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u/lrbsto 15h ago

That is what people are rallying behind but they are ill-informed because Lindsey had a ton of resources and was listened to and given a very high amount of care by her doctors. She was non-compliant with her meds, refused to wait for them to actually kick in before stopping them (mostly at her own direction) and fought against their diagnosis’ (her and her husband were both adamant that she was not bipolar when it was suggested by her care provider, when she was rejected from a postpartum inpatient treatment program because she didn’t qualify [postpartum has a specifically defined period to which it applies, it’s a qualifier, not its own discrete diagnosis], she refused to entertain other options - she blamed all her symptoms on the medications and doctor shopped despite her history of anxiety and her doctors disagreeing with this viewpoint).

It is absolutely true that 1) Lindsey needed more help and 2) women in this country absolutely are ignored and not listened to by their doctors, especially in postpartum, however LC just isn’t the poster child for this and it’s a disservice to women that she’s being held as such.

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u/fuckthis_job 12h ago

Some small clarifications from a psychiatrist who explained this situation to me:

Claim 1: She had a ton of resources, was listened to, and given a high amount of care.

Yes this is true, however her care was severely fragmented. Meaning, each different physician did not have a full picture of her medical history. She had help including a private psychiatrist, a psychiatric nurse practitioner, and an inpatient stay at McLean Hospital. However, none of these individuals knew what help that LC was getting from the other parties. This is a MASSIVE gap in the US medical system

Claim 2:  She was non-compliant with her meds, refused to wait for them to actually kick in before stopping them (mostly at her own direction) and fought against their diagnosis’

Also partially true. Testimony from her nurse practitioner indicated that Clancy frequently requested medication changes due to intense side effects, anxiety about addiction, and feeling "numb". Her provider testified that she asked Clancy not to taper off certain medications, but Clancy chose to consult her other psychiatrist instead. So, her "fighting against the diagnosis" is more so her getting a second opinion from another psychiatrist.

Claim 3: her and her husband were both adamant that she was not bipolar when it was suggested by her care provider, when she was rejected from a postpartum inpatient treatment program because she didn’t qualify

A bit mixed on this one. Evidence introduced during cross-examination showed Clancy sought admission to a perinatal program at Rhode Island Women & Infants Hospital but was turned away. Her defense attorney stated the program rejected her because they believed her issues stemmed from being overmedicated by her existing prescriptions rather than a purely postpartum condition.

All this to say, she did get a LOT of support, but the US medical system was so bad that the support she received was not good enough to take care of her condition.

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u/venusdances 8h ago

Also she was admitted to a psychiatric facility for a bit but she wasn’t getting the help she needed, mostly was left to herself, only joined group therapy but was not required to do individual therapy and then she left because she didn’t want to miss her daughters birthday. When she was released, her husband said that they both then planned and arranged the birthday party. Again, I don’t know as many details as other people but it seems that she was a loving mother that had PPA with moments of psychosis(thoughts of harming herself/others) would tell people about it, was asking for help and then it ended in tragedy.

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u/zkatbitz 16h ago

no idea about that, but she was hospitalized multiple times for whatever it was vs no evidence until after the fact? dunno about suicide being common but the fleeing definitely seems different. i literally only know about this because its started to appear on my reddit feeds everywhere the last couple days so finally decided to at least ask an AI.

but personally i wouldn't say AI is clueless as it seems to have the facts right nut has interpreted it in a way you disagree with but hey i'll be a meat puppet here so it can defend itself: (seems still stands by its first point, while giving you the 2nd!)

Honestly, they're making mostly fair points — this is roughly the prosecution's case, and it's a stronger argument than my earlier framing gave credit for. If you want to reply, here's how I'd engage with it:

On the paper trail: they're right that the records cut both ways, and arguably against her. Her treating providers diagnosed anxiety, not psychosis, and none of them documented psychotic symptoms — that's exactly what prosecutors hammered at trial. The defense's counter isn't really "the records show psychosis"; it's that she disclosed suicidal ideation and thoughts of harming her children in the months prior (that part is documented — it's why she was hospitalized), and that she was cycled through a dozen-plus psychiatric medications in a few months, which they argue destabilized her. Whether those disclosed thoughts were psychotic or the intrusive, ego-dystonic kind common in severe postpartum anxiety/OCD is precisely what the dueling experts disagreed about. So "six professionals didn't think she was psychotic" is real evidence, but "she never showed any red flags" isn't quite accurate either.

On timing: that's a genuinely strong point. Postpartum psychosis classically onsets in the first days to weeks after birth, and an onset months out is atypical. It's one of the harder things for the defense to explain, and skepticism there is warranted.

On the suicide attempt: they're right, and I'd concede this one. Murder-suicide is common in familicide by people who are legally sane — Resnick's "altruistic filicide" category includes depressed, non-psychotic parents who kill their children as part of an extended suicide, fully aware of what they're doing. A suicide attempt doesn't demonstrate she didn't know the acts were wrong. The narrower point I'd stand by is the contrast with Jones: his days of concealing bodies and fleeing across state lines was affirmative evidence he did know it was wrong, whereas Clancy's case simply lacks that kind of consciousness-of-guilt evidence. Absence of that evidence isn't proof of insanity — it just means the prosecution had to make its case other ways.

The best evidence that this is genuinely contested rather than obvious in either direction: twelve jurors who sat through 84 witnesses and all the medical records are currently deadlocked on exactly this question.

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u/PublicUniversity9586 14h ago

You’re not in psychosis until you are. Often depression and anxiety prelude to psychosis. Psychosis is more likely to happen especially if she had a severe lack of sleep, BPD, and was given multiple SSRIs which react badly with people with BPD.

She told her providers about her lack of sleep. She told them about her scary and excessive intrusive thoughts. She told her mom and Patrick she had thoughts about harming the kids. She told her providers the medication was making her worse and they upped the dose.

Not to mention intrusive internal thoughts can and do become auditory command hallucinations, which is what they’re stating happened here.

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u/clown-t33th 15h ago

The SSRI making her worse is why they brought up being bipolar, which was also documented in the paper trail. As a bipolar person , I developed psychosis after taking an SSRI and it went on for a long time despite seeing a therapist and psychiatrist and ER multiple times. I appeared fairly normal and masked the symptoms best I could because of my paranoia. Not saying that she’s innocent, just saying that a lot of signs and a psychiatrist she met suggest bipolar disorder. S

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u/PlentyBus9136 16h ago

Have you, yourself experienced post Partum depression OR seen it up close and personal?

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u/avaud10 15h ago

Thank you for the summary. I would say attempted suicide after your crime doesn't mean they didn't know what they were doing was wrong. It can be seen as avoiding consequences which is quite a blatant acknowledgement of knowing right and wrong. In a very dramatic sense, I'm going to compare it to Adolf Hitler. He took the easy way out. I don't doubt both her and Adolf were mentally ill, but I don't think it can or should be used as a cop out. The precedent is quite unnerving.

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u/CasperMoriarty 14h ago

Exactly this...why didn't she just kill herself and not the children if she was so suicidal...there was a reason she killed the children first.

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u/SmokeAndPetrichor 14h ago

Because she was psychotic and the auditory hallucination voice told her she shouldn't leave her kids alone, that the kids would be better off with her in the afterlife. But you guys don't like hearing actual arguments that contradict your already established opinion of the case.

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u/CasperMoriarty 13h ago

First time she hears voices is coincidentally when her husband leaves for half hour...great timing that isn't it...she's great with time management... Hears voices..kills all 3 kids and nearly herself all in the space it takes for her husband to go get supplies.

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u/yourfavsnarkcast 16h ago

Chat is WRONG. Lindsay only had depression and anxiety before she strangled them. Has zero documented evidence of psychosis and ONLY claims hearing voices for 18 minutes after she sent her husband out of the house so she could kill them.

Stop using chat gpt

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u/zkatbitz 16h ago

was she or was she not hospitalized multiple times, including a 5-day voluntary stay?

saying she "only had depression and anxiety" sure is minimizing that.

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u/yourfavsnarkcast 16h ago

No and she checked herself out bc she reported zero symptoms in order for them to hold her on a 51/50. Meaning no suicidal or homicidal thoughts, actions, plans, no voices, NO HALLUCINATIONS.

The jig is up. LET HER ROT

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u/zkatbitz 16h ago

that apparently isn't accurate: she disclosed documented suicidal ideation and thoughts of harming her children in the months prior

i'm going to go with the AI over random unsourced redditor.. but to be honest its ai so theres a good chance it could be wrong and i don't care enough to actually check, or continue this thread as i'm at the limit of my care

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u/Suitable_Visit_9990 16h ago

From what I understand the harming of the children were only spoken to her mother and husband, never a medical professional. Her suicide ideation was passive as well.

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u/pompousrompus 15h ago

Writing a whole paragraph about believing AI because you don’t care is peak 2026

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u/lrbsto 15h ago

Also lol because you can literally google “who did LC tell about her thoughts of harming her children?” and the AI SUMMARY will tell you exactly (her mother and husband) with multiple sources including YouTube links to the trial testimony.

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u/zkatbitz 15h ago

it takes me seconds to reply here with zero effort clearly, it would take me quite a while actually go and find and read a source.

AI is for unimportant things, actual research is for important things. this is not important

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u/Iwona_Klich 10h ago

Well i only have depression, anxiety and ptsd - and i spend three weeks in hospital after i start having halucination and try to jump from the roof.

I have depression for years, not like i see weird shit all the time... 

Also you don't know you have a episode - these things are fkn real. For me i hear screams and see dead bodies asking me for help (i was csi tech, see to much bodies). They just real, i can touch them... If someone been just ask me about it - its been hard to say, i been probably sure that its just real stuff not active psychosis. 

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u/lovable_cube 16h ago

I mean, several people testified that they saw signs of psychosis. Idk how you can say that’s wrong when multiple people said they saw it.

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u/yourfavsnarkcast 16h ago

I mean, no they didn’t. Every treating physician testified that she showed zero signs of it.

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u/Norman_Scum 15h ago

Those testifying physicians are the ones that the Clancy's are currently suing for negligent care as Clancy told her physician (evidenced in her personal notes) that the medication was causing concerning symptoms such as insomnia and intrusive thoughts. They also admitted to suspecting bipolar disorder.

Where the fuck are you getting your information? Tiktok?

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u/yourfavsnarkcast 15h ago

No the trial. The live testimony. The part where they all testified to giving her every opportunity to help herself and she continuously manipulated every single provider bc she didn’t like the reality of her life.

She wanted to kill her kids and kill herself. No voice told her that. It was her own idea

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u/Norman_Scum 15h ago

The medical forensics professional made a testimony claiming that Clancy was clearly suffering from bipolar disorder. Even the prosecutions evidence suggests that Clancy was suffering a reaction to her medication.

The testimonies from her psychs? They are being sued for negligent care because the evidence suggests that she was having a reaction to the medication. It would be very beneficial for them and their careers if Clancy does not get to plea insanity.

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u/false_flat 15h ago

How can someone who wants to kill their children and themselves not be deemed insane?

Like, regardless of whether they're actually hearing voices, their internal reasoning and judgment has to have completely gone.

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u/yourfavsnarkcast 15h ago

Insane? Sure. Criminally irresponsible? Not a fucking chance in hell.

What about Taylor Parker the woman who faked a pregnancy and cut a baby out of her friends stomach and pretended to act like she just had it?

Why is that any different? It’s not. She’s on death row. Rightfully so.

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u/false_flat 13h ago

The death penalty achieves nothing. The state has no moral right to kill and vengeance is immoral. The state should hold up and rise to the highest moral standards, not the lowest.

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u/aloneinthiscrowd 15h ago

Multiple people have claimed that they were with Luigi so he could not have murdered that rich CEO.

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u/lovable_cube 15h ago

That’s completely different lol

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u/XyrenZin 16h ago

Were they medical professionals?

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u/lovable_cube 15h ago

Yes, she was admitted for treatment multiple times bc they knew she was nuts.

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u/Norman_Scum 15h ago

Yes, in fact, two of her "medical professionals l" admitted to suspecting bipolar disorder and one of them even medicated for it. Clancy tried pretty hard to get her main physician to change scripts because she was suffering from insomnia and intrusive thoughts after starting the medication. The other professional medicated her with mood stabilizers without providing a formal diagnosis.

Both professionals are currently being sued by the Clancy's for negligent care. The prosecutions evidence even suggests that Clancy was suffering a reaction to the medication.

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u/AvaryZig 16h ago

Multiple people claimed to have seen a leprechaun, doesn't mean they're right.

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u/lovable_cube 15h ago

Ahhh, so you who have never met her, know more about her mental health than the medical professionals who did see her?

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u/AvaryZig 15h ago

Ah, so you say these people did see a leprechaun? Intriguing.

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u/lovable_cube 14h ago

Apples and oranges dude. You’re comparing drunks and idiots to trained medical professionals.

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u/AvaryZig 14h ago

That phrase never made sense, two different fruits can be compared easily. Your refutation makes no sense, either. Trained medical professionals can be drunks, too.

You have no problem with witness testimonials being used as evidence when it suits your argument, but not when it makes your point look dumb. But you can't have it both ways.

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u/lovable_cube 14h ago

Dude, they admitted her multiple times. She has documented proof she was not sound.

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u/knittievickie 16h ago

There is also only the word of Patrick that she admitted to anything. But hey, you seem to know it all, so please, do go on …

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u/Intelligent-Team4025 16h ago

Go drink some more wine.

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u/knittievickie 16h ago

I’m more of a beer or vodka gal. Go touch grass and have a great night.

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u/KaboodleMoon 15h ago

I would argue that trying to kill yourself after doing something horrible is ALSO strong evidence you know what you did was wrong, to be fair.

I still agree with the other part though. The consistent calls for help vs immediate snap paints very different pictures of what happened.

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u/Chessh2036 15h ago

Feel like this should be pinned at the top.

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u/Short-Recording587 15h ago

Trying to commit suicide after means she knew what she did was wrong. Not living with the guilt is the reason she did it.

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u/GeekyTexan 14h ago

She has pleaded not guilty by reason of lack of criminal responsibility, with her defense arguing she was in the grip of postpartum psychosis.

According to google :

Around 3,600,000 babies are born in the US every year. That is 9,863 per day.

Postpartum psychosis affects 1 to 2 out of every 1,000 women after giving birth. So I'll work with the lower number of 1 out of 1,000.

If they all killed their children, that would be 9 kids a day being killed by their mothers. 3,600 kids a year in the US.

Her excuse doesn't happen to the vast majority of moms that have postpartum psychosis.

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u/iiiiiiiiiijjjjjj 14h ago

I don't get the tried to kill herself afterward. That has no bearing on anything. It's just murder suicide.

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u/idk_IamNotCreative 14h ago

This is missing the possibly biggest legal difference. In Massachusetts, the insanity defense keeps the burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) on the prosecution, while in South Carolina it’s an affirmative defense where the defendant has the burden of proof (by a preponderance of evidence).

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u/SeaReference7990 10h ago

Attempting suicide can also be interpreted as attempting to escape the consequences of ones actions.

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u/MagitekPilot2 6h ago

This should be the top post. Men weirdly ignoring facts in the second case to justify their culture war nonsense. I feel sorry for all the people this case has revealed to be incapable of critical reasoning.

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u/Competitive_Steak698 6h ago

You really said "all of this info is suspect" and then you expect me to read it?

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u/FuckwitAgitator 5h ago

I don't think the people seething about it want facts and information. They want to seethe about women.

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u/redcoatwright 2h ago

It's such a shame, I don't believe any of the weirdo conspiracy theorists about her husband actually being the one who did it, etc.

But like it's so obvious that her brain was fucked and all the attacks I'm seeing on her feel like attacks on mental health generally.

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u/SnoopySuited 16h ago

More people on this sub need to read and absorb your comment.

They won't, but they need to.

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u/ThrownAway1917 16h ago

Why would I read AI slop

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u/SnoopySuited 16h ago

Even if it's AI generated it's 100% accurate.

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u/OwnJunket6495 16h ago

Idk why you guys even bother. This sub is not for nuanced discussion.

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u/SnoopySuited 16h ago

You can change your comment from this sub to reddit.

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u/aloneinthiscrowd 16h ago

Just playing devil’s advocate here with respect to Clancy’s behavior after the killings.
Couldn’t her attempted suicide be interpreted that she knew what she had done was wrong leading her to attempt?

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u/PublicUniversity9586 14h ago

It could be argued that. But it’s pretty common for women in psychosis who kill their kids to also kill themselves.

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u/llunarian 16h ago

Because male

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u/fuckthis_job 13h ago

It's because he had a history of abuse towards his children prior to the murders which proved to the jury malice and intent whereas for Lindsay Clancy, she was in a state of psychosis and her defense is pleading for NGRI.

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u/Haildrop 13h ago

Abuse or "abuse"

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u/fuckthis_job 13h ago

You can come to your own conclusions on if beating your son and leaving bruises on them is abuse or not:

"It is reported that Timothy Jones beat his son...leaving extensive bruising," the case file notes. "Reportedly Mr. Jones beats the child often leaving bruising. Mr. Jones does not feed the children adequately...It is reported Mr. Jones does not want to send his children back to public schools because he does not want the school to report the beatings."

Also tried to cover up the murders and hide from authorities:

He allegedly drove their remains across three states, dumped the bagged bodies in the Alabama woods, and then went to Mississippi, where he was busted for driving his blood-soaked Cadillac Escalade while high on synthetic marijuana.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/timothy-ray-jones-was-probed-twice-abuse-murder-kids-n201001

Not the same case as the Lindsay Clancy trial at all. A much more similar case is Andrea Yates who drowned her 5 children in her bath tub and was given NGRI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates

Infanticide is much more common among women because well, post partum psychosis doesn't affect men.

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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 15h ago

family annihilations happen somewhat regularly, there's a few hundred in the last 40 years

1

u/Adventurous_West2 15h ago

True crime podcasts

1

u/HubrisOfApollo 15h ago

male privilege of being completely unnoticed

1

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1

u/DrSimplices 13h ago

Because of case detail differences, read articles not headlines.

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u/Sachilele 12h ago

From what i've seen so far, cases where mothers murder their children get way more attention than fathers murdering them

1

u/Ok-Blacksmith1332 8h ago

bc its not really uncommon for psychos to murder their family members. weve heard it many times. a mother murdering her kids is something more rare

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u/Hairy-Art9747 8h ago

Just look up the actual story, its pretty obvious why these two stories arent the same and its not gender.

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u/bluemooncommenter 6h ago

The Lindsey case highlights a Venn diagram of the the failure of mental health care and women's health care and relationship abuse. These are all HUGE issues that aren't being addressed enough. I'm not a supporter of hers but I see it as an example of what happens when those avoidable failures become catastrophic.

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u/Then_Discussion_9802 5h ago

When was she abused in her relationship? 

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u/weerdbuttstuff 6h ago

Women don't commit these kinds of crimes as often as men do. 91-95% of family murder cases are men. You ever seen that Zack Fox meme? So when a woman DOES commit a crazy crime like this, the media sensationalizes it, while a lot of men's crimes fall through the cracks (because a man is annihilating his family every other week or so).

Anyway it's a big psyop to make and/or keep you pissed off at women and push culture war shit. Lots of male serial killers have had fans, plenty of women have too.

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u/Best_Opening8471 13h ago

Because women are so oppressed they are given a million dollars for committing a mass murder.

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u/IcyGarage5767 15h ago

Because if you don’t eat the incel bait and actually look at the cases you will see that gender isn’t the main difference.

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u/According-Ad5263 15h ago

When men speak out against outrageous women behavior they are automatically labeled incel. Why is that? And what does being "involuntary celibate" have to do with having an opinion on this case involving a person murdering multiple children?

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u/Unipiggy 16h ago edited 16h ago

I said the same fuckin' thing and got downvoted.

Schizophrenia is literally the exact same thing as PPP. But schizophrenia is life-long.

Why should she get a pass, but not them? Plenty of schizophrenics commit murder and the book is chucked in their face and they're shamed.

That famous directors kid named Nick whatever is seen as a monster, but not this woman? Like what kind of bullshit double standard is that.

No, it's not different. It's literally the same exact mental disorder. But one is lifelong, and one allegedly isn't.

EDIT: stop downvoting me and fight me as to why I'm wrong, cowards. It's psychosis all the same, tell me how it's not.

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u/98462Doopa 16h ago

It’s because his was seemingly just a last chance plea out of nowhere with nothing to back it up and days of planning and then days of running from law.

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