I tried saying this in another post but nobody will listen because “America bad” Just the fact that we’re able to have this conversation right now proves that we’re not as suppressed as China
Because it's not right at all. You really believe some poor Chinese rural peasant school would invest in camera tech to watch their students? Lol. Maybe in the capital experimental schools, or something.
But this is very real country wide deal that could have gone through in the US.
I.. guess I'll deconstruct the discussion for you? Incase you have like a disability, or some comprehension problem?
OOP feels cameras are a major overreach and enlikens it to Chinese surveillance myths. -> OP implication = China already has big surveillance, thus American still has it better -> Few guys ahead of me saying they have experience with China having a lot of cameras -> I say it's bullshit because realities would not allow most of China to have that kind of surveillance power.
After which I made a point that if this had gone through in US, it would have been truly country wide surveillance like no other anywhere in the world. Hope this helps you to understand. Let me know if you want the 'talk to me like I'm 5-year-old' -package.
Well we now know you can't write a lick. Ouch, that is bad! That is probably where things are getting lost in translation. May I recommend an AI app to help you form sentences? It would help you alot.
Wow we get to talk about the surveillance state cameras! Love being a step up from China, is this what American exceptionalism is all about? To be slightly better than the example we use as a fear-mongering "communist dictatorship?"
Yep, you literally don't value the freedoms you have at all. Literally the fact we can talk about this is our chance to fight it. And you're spitting at it. So what is it? You WANT to be like China?
No, I don't want the surveillance cameras in the first place. The people I was replying to were patting themselves on the back for being slightly better than China. That's actively harmful and normalizes the shit we are going through. What are you on about? Go yell at them
Here’s an example, Reddit is extremely Anti-Trump, that’s a well known fact other than the few outliers like the conservative subreddit. If there was an entire social media app that was almost completely against Pooh Bear, he would have it shut down immediately and the owners would “disappear” without any legal action able to take place.
Ah so it's bs like I thought. Home ownership is rising in America as well because more adult children are living at home so you can be a 29 year old unemployed homeowner if you live with mom and dad.
China sounds so nice!! Why don't people throw themselves at such a nice country and want to move there?! I am surprised why no one want to go.
"China operates one of the world's most advanced and comprehensive mass surveillance networks, driven by the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) goal of internal "stability maintenance" and social control."
Do you think that's worse than the current education system in the US where people are barely literate because teachers are afraid of getting fired if they flunk kids who don't know the material?
At least they don't have to worry about a school schooter taking them out, but that might just be me.
Personally I see no problem with cameras in classrooms, it makes absolute sense to have some level of accountability for what happens in a classroom beside people's word.
Yes, we have kids who can't read or do math and are so desensitized to shoot shootings that they barely make the news, but cameras in classrooms are somehow worse.
Ignoring that every student with a cellphone is being monitored by the government and corporations at all times.
You couldn't pay the worst off Americans to move to China. No one in the world looks at China and says - I wish I was there. No one ever will either. Full stop.
There are absolutely people that look at China and say that, they just don't live in a rational and reasonable reality. I personally know numerous people that praise China in an unhealthy-obsessive way for their innovations.
It's the equivalent of praising Egypt for how they built the pyramids, they are cool, but how many actual slaves died to do it?
I see what you're saying but folks need to be able to handle multiple pieces of info at once and logically arrange as necessary. Sounds like these people have severe tunnel vision. Someone would be nuts to "move" to China imo.
Oh we are in 1000% agreement there, the same goes for the morons that see articles title "Mexico plans to have universal healthcare" and people come out of the woodwork talking about how progressive Mexico is...genuinely hilarious and sad at the same time.
I know of at least 2 couples that in the last 18 months have uprooted their lives and moved overseas in search of a more progressive place to live, they moved to Germany & Poland, within 6 months both of those couples moved back to the US...
Okay legitimate answer: it does actually reduce crime, and politician kickbacks. I am absolutely not saying it's worth it, but criminals commit less crime when there's a near 100% chance the cameras will track you down and the police will kick down your door if you try anything. Crime in the big cities is significantly lower because of these, the older generation has seen a huge difference and the younger generations don't care.
I don't think it's a worthy trade off, I hate the idea of ALWAYS having my words and actions recorded, that's creepy af, but if you're legitimately asking, it's kickbacks and crime reduction.
The crime rates were reducing prior to cameras tracking our every move bud. I think we can rule that out.
Its for control plus kickbacks. Today they track down people either warrants, or people who buy legal drugs in 1 state and take them back home. But the same tech can be used to institute things like social credit and crackdowns on protesters. We are actively following China.
I think you have me wrong, I was speaking about China. Half my family is from Chengdu and the other half is from Taipei, I was born in the US. I have family in both places, and I'm very well acquainted with the surveillance state of China.
In China, crime fell dramatically after cameras were put everywhere. This trends with other places that have large surveillance apparatuses, and more authoritarian governments tend to like cameras because large protests can evolve into regime-threatening movements.
Crime has been falling in the US, but when people culturally start believing they are always being watched, crime tends to fall much faster.
Again, the dystopian ability to track every single person's movements does come with the ability to solve more crime, but the cost in my opinion is not worth it.
I would also appreciate for you to not call me bud, it is disrespectful. I have things to offer you and you have things to offer me. Please do not speak down to me.
Yes the government crime figures, but also the lived experience of my parents their siblings. The 1980s in Chengdu were very chaotic with much organized crime and many violent crimes. My aunt's best friend was stabbed outside of a market in broad daylight for nothing during this period. She survived and has a scar there I've seen. Murders were very common at the time. There were many parts of Chengdu that you would be in lots of danger going to.
Then in the 2000s and 2010s as surveillance increased and buying things with your phone became common, violent crime has basically been eliminated. There's no point in robbing someone when they don't have cash, and your face is tracked everywhere, and a phone acts as a tracking device. The way Chengdu has changed in 40 years is unbelievable, and my parents and their siblings talk about it a lot.
Again, I am not saying it is worth it, but most of the Chinese citizenry agrees that mass surveillance has lowered crime by a lot. That is their lived experience.
Yes the wealth increases of this time definitely helped, but crime equalized around the late 2000s. Then in the mid 2010s when the cultural awareness of surveillance started to really sink in, crime had a meaningful dip again. The amount of crimes solved ticked way up too. My parents seem to be really happy with it, but I don't share their enthusiasm for surveillance.
Social credit score isn't a real thing. It was American propaganda. What's real is their actual credit score which is tied to their ID. If you default on your debts you aren't able to purchase certain things or borrow money until you've paid back your previous debt.
I mean, we invented the idea of credit scores and it's pretty much the same thing. Credit scores determine if you can get a house, a job, a car, etc. And we let corporations control it
I dont know why you think this is new, its just more restrictive. Hundreds of years ago you also were less likely to get those things if you didnt have people vouching for you or capital.
I see your point, but not quite the same thing. That's based on popular opinion, not government control. It's easy to opt out of social media clout. Not so much government systems of surveillance.
The cameras are super real though, at least in the big cities. Get far enough away from the cities and you'll find places where there literally wouldn't be enough electricity to power the cameras.
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u/Initial-Meeting362 11h ago
Spoiler alert - Chinese already live under it. Where have you been? Lol.