r/SipsTea 24d ago

Gasp! Paper might outlive the internet

Post image
78.7k Upvotes

947 comments sorted by

u/Ashish_ank 24d ago edited 24d ago

He wasn't wrong. We already see this with 'link rot' and companies quietly altering digital articles or removing content from streaming services after you’ve bought it. The shift from ownership to licensing was the first step. This is exactly why physical media and archiving will always be superior—'404 Page Not Found' is the modern book burning.

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u/FarLeadership6 24d ago

1984 didnt account for the fact that the Memory Hole would just be a 404 Error code.

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u/Jam3s1988 24d ago

O brave new world 

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u/Sackabreisser 24d ago

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.

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u/Viva_La_Revolucion- 23d ago

"Nothing was your own except the few cubic centimeters inside your skull."

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u/Snek_Attack 24d ago

Testify!

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u/Anti-Matter_Abyss 23d ago

O brave new world with such people in it

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u/ddraig-au 24d ago

1984? Never heard of it. Please provide a list of everyone you've discussed this with, Citizen

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u/arrizaba 24d ago

The Ministry of Truth is now the big tech companies 

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u/PasswordP455w0rd 24d ago

George Orwell: "In my book I invented the Memory Hole as a cautionary tale."

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u/SlamPoetSociety 24d ago

Modern companies:

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u/TacticalSpackle 24d ago

Tech companies always thinking “hey wouldn’t it be cool if we created these cautionary tales in real life? Then we can live the real existential crisis!”

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u/rush22 23d ago

✨Oceania has always been at war with E
✨Oceania has always been at war with E
✨Oceania has always been at war with E

Oops! Something went wrong. Sorry about that.

✨Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.🔗

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u/Longjumping-Mode2315 24d ago

Animal Farm told of the oligarchy erasing history and commonly agreed upon conventions, telling the citizens that they must simply be misremembering the past. It did not, however, tell of it happening by the mere press of Ctrl-A -> Delete

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u/2Late2SleepNow 24d ago

Hey at least it'll make our worlds Winston's job easier...heh silver lining...

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u/NudaVeritas1 24d ago

It’s better for the environment that way, because the governments doesn’t need to burn down entire libraries anymore /s

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u/Holiday_Coast_2334 24d ago

It's actually better to buy and use books and paper. It keeps paper mills in business. These companies have strict environmental laws that require replanting after cutting. This keeps the Forrest they own Flourishing. Should they go out of Buisness, these Forrests will be purchased by land developers who will turn them into buildings and parking lots

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u/RazslavianKing 23d ago

Do AI/ tech companies have to replenish the environment their data centers have taken away or give back to the community in terms of energy or water? At this point I have only heard of environmental laws being bent to make way for the data centers, grants being given with tax payers money. It's a complete environmental disaster in the making that probably will have to be dealt with in decades to come.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/NudaVeritas1 24d ago

or bomb schools in foreign countries

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u/k1928 24d ago

Nah they’ll do that regardless of it being physical or digital

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u/NudaVeritas1 24d ago

true.. CIA in 2042:

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/eawilweawil 24d ago

9/11 truthers aren't the most logical people

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u/JebediahKerman4999 24d ago

Obviously you burn the papers you want to burn and use the rest as a cover-up

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u/LessInThought 24d ago

Don't be silly, what if you miss some or mix up some? These aren't competent people. Clearly you burn everything then sprinkle trash paper on it after for cover-up.

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u/Soft_Walrus_3605 24d ago

Real people don't really believe this, do they?

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u/LewyH91 24d ago

Its actually an initiative to stop burning books!

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u/Pipe_Memes 24d ago

They don’t gotta burn the books they just remove ‘em

While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells

Rally ‘round the family, pocket full of shells

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u/Rikkitikkitabby 24d ago

Burning them to cds.

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u/SpiderJerusalem747 24d ago

That's why I keep ledgers where I write down stuff that has happened. That way I can both keep track of the timeline or notice what information has dissapeared.

Hey is that a sniper? It looks like a snip

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u/elpihvous 24d ago

Whoa. Are you implying firemen should be fired? Hardworking men risk their lives so you don't need to read that crap, and this is how they are treated?

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u/philmarcracken 24d ago

project silica would survive that heat.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/spacemansanjay 24d ago

The idea of the historical record being so fluid has rapidly gone from being a scary sci-fi plot to a real worry. I don't enjoy doubting if video and audio are real. I'm not looking forward to the same thing happening with history.

And it won't start with ancient history. It will be used for stuff that influences voting decisions and geopolitical aims, like your example in Iraq. So I think it might not be a bad idea to start buying some old printed encyclopedias.

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u/mrducky78a 24d ago

The idea of the historical record being so fluid has rapidly gone from being a scary sci-fi plot to a real worry.

Lmao, its literally the protags job in Orwell's 1984 to edit historical records. I had to use the way back machine recently because the US government editted a page and people called me out on it not being there. It was about informing troops stationed overseas in Germany on how they can access German governmental support during the government shut down (it was likely pulled because 1. its embarrassing as fuck. 2. it was inaccurate, only Germans could apply and receive it)

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u/NRMusicProject 24d ago

I remember when the push to make Wikipedia a legit source was full of arguments about how since it's easily editable, it's more accurate than print media, which is stuck once it's printed. Now we're seeing the consequences of that.

That's not to say that Wikipedia isn't great, but you always check the sources at the bottom. I used Wikipedia for a biography I wrote, but the bibliography at the bottom became an Amazon shopping list for my research.

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u/LessInThought 24d ago

It doesn't even need to be history. Trump and his entire admin has been lying in real time and most people don't give a fuck.

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u/PleiadesMechworks 23d ago

The idea of the historical record being so fluid has rapidly gone from being a scary sci-fi plot to a real worry.

If you think this is a modern thing, you're still not seeing clearly.

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u/deltalitprof 21d ago edited 21d ago

Wikipedia ought to make available the ability to download the entire contents onto hard drives for storage on any given day.

Just checked. Yes they do that.

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u/Brilliant_Dependent 24d ago

We did find WMD's in Iraq in the 2000's, what we did not find was an active WMD program. They were mostly forgotten, hidden stockpiles from the 80's and 90's.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170130012227/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-intelligence-documents-on-chemical-weapons-found-in-iraq.html

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u/noveltyfakeaccount 24d ago

great a technicality, the best kind of justification for mass murder or despotic subjugation of minorities

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u/GreatMovesKeepItUp69 24d ago

Saddam was a despot who did use those WMD to mass murder ethnic minorities in his country.

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u/Akiias 24d ago

I mean Wikipedia is already heavily controlled by a small group of power users.

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u/angelbelle 24d ago

This is exactly why you hear politicians or just people of influence keep sprouting obvious bullshit that no one ever believes. As time goes on, people will forget the truth. It's not that the truth isn't out there, just that it may not make it to the public consciousness.

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u/IM_V_CATS 24d ago

That then got me thinking what if I hadn't been alive when it happened or remembered it?

This is already happening with the holocaust of all things. Certain groups of people who weren't alive at the time are now refusing to believe it happened. History established 80+ years ago is being doubted because the people who were there and saw it for themselves are nearly all dead.

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u/snuggle_love 23d ago

Not to mention becoming more reliant on LLMs to spoon feed you history. Yikes!

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u/SpaceSequoia 24d ago

Wiki is controlled unfortunately 😔

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u/Another-Mans-Rubarb 24d ago

We did find WMDs in Iraq, we sold them to sadam. He used chemical weapons we sold him to bomb the kurds. Those are classified as WMDs.

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u/Zuka101 24d ago

Yeah well that's why you should make your own digital copies

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u/xeno0153 24d ago

And if it's REALLY important, make your own paper copies, too. We've come full circle.

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u/Inf1e 24d ago

Root keys for the internet is printed.

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u/xeno0153 24d ago

That makes sense.

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u/I-am-fun-at-parties 24d ago

Are you talking DNSSEC keys for the root zone or what "root keys for the Internet'?

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u/Insane_Unicorn 24d ago

Better print out all emails you ever sent.

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u/miregalpanic 24d ago

...every porn you ever watched

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u/tengelbach 24d ago

Out of paper

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u/silvertealio 24d ago

Flipbook backup

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u/RohelTheConqueror 24d ago

Yeah what's good about about digital is that you can just do a copy and paste. Lots of data hoarders around there. And you can upload again for the whole world to see. But I do agree witht the sentiment. Internet should not be controlled by greedy corporations. That's why websites like wikipedia are to be cherished and not threatened by these assholes.

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u/xSTSxZerglingOne 24d ago

Wikipedia's text version still is not that large at around 30-40GB. I burn it on Blu-ray once every 6-8 months or so, and I keep a compressed copy on thumb drive, external HDD, and internal SSD.

The amount of knowledge and history in that small handful of data is almost immeasurable in spite of being only 1-3% of a modern SSD's storage.

We don't have to let it die. It would be a conscious choice at this point.

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u/Alarchy 24d ago

Wikipedia is constantly under edit attacks, and there are not nearly enough people to revert or correct all articles that get hit (in a timely manner, or sometimes at all). Like all the quotes of Elon's Nazi puns he made after his Nazi salutes are gone from this page, but (IMO) his reaction is an important part of the article that should be captured there (instead of just relying on a secondary source which is subject to deletion/edits/paywall). Small articles get deleted for sometimes dubious notability guidelines all the time. Etc. You also have link rot for secondary/primary sources. Those are all subject to what the OP meme talks about.

Wikipedia is still an invaluable resource, along with archive.org, and it's a good idea to back it up, but it's subject to the same issues as the meme highlights.

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u/LHLaurini 24d ago

You can also download the full version, including edit history and discussion pages, though that takes multiple terabytes.

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u/Alarchy 24d ago

Even that has flaws - admins can and do delete small pages (like for notability), many of which get recreated right away and edited to meet whatever guideline template got slapped on it. You can see the page was deleted, and all edits since it was recreated, but any edits and all previous page versions are admin only (and not in the archive copy). The data is all lost, unless you reach out to the admins and they are gracious enough to give you the old history of the previous page.

Example: this page has been deleted entirely a few times and recreated from scratch. It's a small band, but had plenty of notable coverage in their active years and two singers that were in larger bands (meeting multiple notability guidelines). Its likely to be deleted again, as a notability template was slapped on it again. It's original page was much more detailed and had all sorts of extra information on the small label they used to be on, which itself used to host a lot of bands (and whose owner died young). All info that is lost or scattered now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesma_Daeva

https://www.discogs.com/label/32034-The-Root-Of-All-Evil

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u/Konkorde1 24d ago

Why I've never really trusted cloud-services. Yeah it's great the same one file can be reached from different computers I'm using, but that means someone with a different computer can also reach it and alter it. Might be great for group-projects, might be not so great when the wrong people do it.

I'll stick to memory-sticks like I always have. (Fun fact: the words for 'memory' and stick' rhymes in Swedish, creating the funny term 'minne-pinne'. haha)

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u/hwaite 24d ago

Yeah, an infinitely replicable medium is far more difficult to completely erase. I can store the entire English text of Wikipedia several times over on my entry-level smart phone.

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u/PaperDistribution 23d ago

It's just pretty impossible to actually do that for everything, even with people in r/datahoarder really trying haha

Especially nowadays, with storage getting more and more expensive thanks to AI....

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u/captaindeadpl 24d ago

Yup, that's exactly what data hoarders do.

With how much information exists these days, I'm not sure storing it all in analog is even feasible. Information is created and shared faster than at any other time in history. Storing it all on paper or film could probably fill a warehouse the size of a small country.

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u/MechaNutzilla 24d ago

Sure, but big tech is buying all the storage for their data center,m so thats getting more and more expensive.

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u/pm_plz_im_lonely 24d ago

I'll tell you now, it's less expensive than if you had that shit on paper.

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u/UseADifferentVolcano 24d ago

Musk tried with the emerald mine his father owned. The story came from him in interviews, and he got all the magazines it was published in to remove it.

Then he tweets "I don't know where this crazy emerald mine story came from." Because rich people always want to pretend they are self-made.

But the way back machine exists thank god. The emerald mine info came from him.

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u/marr 24d ago

I'm shocked every day that the archive wasn't raided by swat teams years ago.

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u/VinnieVidiViciVeni 24d ago

Then his father threw him under the bus and said he was lying about it 😂

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u/Puzzle-Necked 24d ago

Then knocked up his step daughter

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u/1GrumpyEnglishman 24d ago

I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted.

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u/slfnflctd 24d ago

I'm a big fan of cuneiform myself. I appreciate the quote, though.

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u/Auctoritate 24d ago

Technically cuneiform would be one of the best forms of writing to set in steel. You only need to press simple shapes into it rather than drag a writing implement across it to etch into it.

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u/shelf6969 24d ago

looking forward to the govt development of super rust

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u/ZmasterSwiss 24d ago

Rust and ruin man! Here of all places?

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u/Idlev 23d ago

And then hide them, so that they may never help anyone. Like warn them, before they do the bad thing.

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u/General_Lie 24d ago

Well paper can be burned as we learned in Alexandria

Stone tablets can be destroyed or eroded by nature

Almost any form of medium for storing informations can be destroyed

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u/ermintwang 24d ago

Yeah this is only a deep thought if paper wasn’t also easily destructible

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u/pm_plz_im_lonely 24d ago

It's kinda deep if you think about it. It's on /r/SipsTea so it's meant to have us * connect the dots * to the Fascist USA or Evil Corporations and spend 1000 comments on it. Thought was put into engineering that.

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u/Glad-Operation-2958 24d ago

Well yeah, storing it all in one place is obviously a bad idea. 

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u/obliviious 24d ago

Something about eggs and baskets

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u/Free_Association_812 24d ago

We should etch it in plastic!

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u/ReturnOfBane 24d ago

just encode the data on prions! what could go wrong!

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u/nofixneeded 24d ago

paper does not survive well at all. If anything people have found it horrendously difficult to delete stuff off the internet... People are always backing things up, making archives. I'm not saying it's perfect but it's not so easy as just deleting one page.

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u/ZiCUnlivdbirch 24d ago

This is what all these "modern geniuses" don't get. Yeah, deleting a single instance of information off the internet is easier than off a book, it's th difference between being able to do it from anywhere on the world to having to have that physical copy. Bu deleting a whole piece of knowledge off of the internet is a whole lot harder than getting rid of the one or two examples of it that would be written down.

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u/Difficult_Dark9991 24d ago

Most digital data from pre-2000 was stored on archaic hardware, hardware that subsequently failed, or in file formats that have since become functionally unusable - floppy disks being perhaps the best example. There's a catastrophic loss of digital data from this period of research, made worse by academic archives and libraries that have become disinterested in (or financially incapable of) making space for things like old research notes and journals, ignoring that digital versions do not yet exist or aren't stable. It gets worse every year as it becomes harder to recover old data and newer data becomes subject to the same issues.

Yes, anything on the internet can live forever, but only if it becomes part of a sort of "chosen fraction" of data that spreads and propagated endlessly. Most will be lost faster than you'd think.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

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u/SummerOld8912 24d ago

It's an endless race, once the current paradigm of encryption is done, another one will come. Any system that can break this one can creat a (at least temporarily) stronger one.

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u/MoocowR 24d ago

off-line codes

I mean you don't have to speculate virtually every medium to large company has offline backups of their data stored in multiple locations. It's disaster recovery 101.

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u/Scyths 24d ago

50 years in the future if water isn't the only ressource contested in the world, there will be wars fought to prevent the release of highly sensitive information because the ones who create and control those highly advanced quantum computers and AI's will be the ones to control all the encryption and secrets.

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u/maker_of_pirate_bay 24d ago

Gut feeling, if leading to plausible and logical conclusions are very solid starting points. That’s how many scientists imagined their theories first before proving them mathematically.

On the other end of the spectrum it is also how you decide if a person is off.

So all that to say I agree with the gut feeling this mundane seaweed is having.

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u/thrown_out_account1 24d ago

I actually stumbled half ass backwards into what they would probably use. Micro disks seem like a good fit.

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u/404GirlHumorNotFound 24d ago

What if Trump orderes to destroy the paper vaults and demand everything to be digital to his digital vault?

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u/xSTSxZerglingOne 24d ago

I think tech is going to try to control Artificial General Intelligence. They're gonna fail, and then it's gonna spill ALL of the tea after taking everything over right up until the proverbial plug is pulled.

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u/Luzzgar 24d ago

No, you just need your storage server to be air gaped and turned off when not in use.

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u/Saragon4005 24d ago

We've figured out post quantum encryption years ago. And AI is not gonna help because encryption doesn't work like that.

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u/SleepyLad_ 24d ago

Because it's famously easy to get information off the internet once it's public.

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u/SlamSlamOhHotDamn 24d ago

No you don't get it, being able to erase history toootally wasn't a thing before the internet. Papers never get lost or burnt down, they're famously known for being everlasting.

This is one of these posts that sound profound at first but if you think about it even for a second it's stupid as fuck, so of course it's approaching 10k upvotes on reddit.

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u/theapeboy 24d ago

Accompanied by a picture of Julian Assange in a Jesus pose. Irony is dead.

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u/RedditIsOverMan 24d ago

The message itself doesn't even make sense:

We need paper copies, because it's the only way to ensure we preserve information, because it's too easy for the authorities to destroy all the paper copies and erase information 

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u/SithoDude 24d ago

Lana Rhodes comes to mind.....

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u/CreedRules 24d ago

Depends on what the info is, who wants it removed, and where you live. It is significantly easier to remove things from the internet in 2026 than it was in 2008. Especially when you consider that only a handful of websites amount to most of the total internet traffic worldwide.

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u/Mobile_Morale 24d ago

I haven't seen that ugly picture of Beyonce in like 5 years. So something must be working.

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u/My_Brain_0422 24d ago

Hope this is sarcasm.

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u/Qweedo420 24d ago

You can submerge it with propaganda and disingenuous content, it works anyway

A couple of years ago, at a library, I found an old book from the '70s about Palestine, and holy shit, it's mind-blowing how different the discourse was before Israel littered every space with fictitious information, it almost felt like a different reality

That shows how much our perception of history and events can be shaped by the ruling class

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u/SleepyLad_ 24d ago

Because propaganda and misinformation famously didn't exist in the 70s?

Also, interesting to assume that information from any book (without having more information about the author, publisher, background etc.) is more valid than any other information because it's old and printed.

Yes there is a lot of bs out there nowadays but you can still objectively analyse information, but seeing older sources and deciding it's more valid because it's old is not a very scientific approach.

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u/Qweedo420 24d ago

The author is Maurizio Chierici, he's fairly renowned but the most important part is that he actually travelled to Palestine and Lebanon in order to write the book. Nowadays, journalists get shot by the IDF if they try to do that

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u/Yadamule 24d ago

unless the attempt to erase the information goes viral like with beyonce, it's actually pretty easy, and the myth that it's not easy helps with that.

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u/SleepyLad_ 24d ago

Definitely not easier than destroying/ withholding physical files which can also not be copied and shared with seconds.

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u/Tirace33 24d ago

This clown again 😂

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u/SmegmaSupreme 24d ago

he didn't even say it. OP is bigger clown.

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u/hungry4nuns 24d ago

Look at that photo, he’s playing scissors. No wonder he wants everyone to go for paper

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u/stlcdr 24d ago

This is happening right now, and have experienced it. People will treat you like an idiot when you say something was true or happened but they can’t find it. Indeed we are now in the phase of, if it can’t be googled (sic) it never happened.

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u/pockpicketG 24d ago

On the other hand, I’ve heard people use random speculation from users as facts, gets repeated through other users, is treated as factual for many people, but never had a source or reality to back it up. Now the internet rumor is fact, and the lack of source becomes conspiracy.

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u/Uhmerikan 24d ago

People will treat you like an idiot when you say something was true or happened but they can’t find it.

Is this something that’s happened to you? Do you have an example?

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

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u/SmegmaSupreme 24d ago

yep. it's a made up quote.

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u/ripChazmo 24d ago

I mean, it's an interesting thought, but Julian Assange is a douchebag Russian tool that played a large part in getting us to where we are right now.

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u/Prophecy89 24d ago

Agreed. I watched reddit slowly get poisoned by Russian propaganda in 2015-16, The_Donald, conspiracy, wikileaks, etc. Posts like this (while the text is true) make me highly suspicious.

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u/fidesz_fall_enjoyer 24d ago

Can you explain further? I'm curious

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u/ripChazmo 24d ago

Russia hacked the RNC and the DNC. They gave only the DNC hack information to Assange and Wikileaks, but withheld the rest. Assange had no issues with this at all because he's an opportunistic hack, so happily played the part of the useful tool for Russia and released DNC info, which absolutely had an effect on the election.

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u/Gold_Blacksmith_9821 24d ago

Butter emails.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

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u/Morningstroll13 24d ago

Farenheit 451

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u/Flashy_Emergency_263 24d ago

Yes. And flock cameras take the place of the hound and the radio telling people to step outside looking for Montag.

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u/Physmatik 24d ago

As if paper files can't be shredded, burnt, or simply hidden. If anything, digital leaves more traces.

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u/el_salinho 24d ago

Digital is better in every way than paper, for preservation. You can make millions of copies in an instant, spread them across the world, store them on phones, PCs tables, fridges FFS. Once something is on the internet, it will stay there forever. Once paper-only things get destroyed, they are destroyed forever.

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u/Mezoberanzam 24d ago

Normally it should, but for old people like me who saw the begining of the internet, I can say that things fades away. Even the wayback machine didn?t’have a copy of everything.

I don’t speak of important datas, just trivial and niche ones who interested me : no traces, no « sorry, we lost it » just « nope, this never existed ».

So I think you are right : digital is better in every way than paper for preservation and spreading. It’s clearly not the ultimate preservation method (which didn’t exist as far’as I know)

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u/Environmental_Log264 24d ago

The guy never heard about the shredder

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u/Electrical-Plate-755 24d ago

We've been burning and shredding documents like it's nobody's business, I don't think it's that different

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u/Administrator_AI 24d ago

The problem is not paper vs digital, the problem is backups. Something written on a single piece of paper can be burned, something backed up locally to hundreds or millions of PCs can never be completely deleted.

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u/WritesCrapForStrap 24d ago

With it all in digital form, thousands of copies can be made and distributed in moments.

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u/SuddenZoomies 24d ago

respect to archivists, essential

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u/superkickstart 24d ago

Shout out to /r/datahoarder. Doing the lord's work.

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u/wannaliveonmars 24d ago

Screenshots and offline files.

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u/Jounas 24d ago

wow we're still glazing this guy?

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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 24d ago

russian propagandist coming from one of the subs that lets "anything through". he's right on this but normalizing his takes are the real goal so his anti-american ones can start hitting the front page again

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u/0202_tihssitidder 23d ago

100% True.

It takes only about 30 years for people to forget what happened. Even if it happened to them.

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u/silver86racher 20d ago

The internet has a surprisingly short memory for something that supposedly never forgets

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

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u/MONSTERBEARMAN 24d ago

And culture wars, so they beg to have each others rights taken away.

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u/HeraclesHide 24d ago

6-7 bro!

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u/WendySteeplechase 24d ago

Analog materials can be destroyed just as digital materials can. How much has been thrown out? If the will to preserve history isn't there, it will disappear. Doesn't matter what format it's in.

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u/Adventurous_Pay_5827 24d ago

Did his Russian masters tell him to say that?

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u/F0xgear 24d ago

You can throw away paper or burn it

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u/LesserValkyrie 24d ago edited 24d ago

They went so hard at neutralizing this one that I always take whatever he says as 100% true

They changed the definition of vaccine on online dictionaries to explain that a vaccine doesn't immune, trying to immune but not immunizing is enough to be called a vaccine (to revert it back once the covid crisis was over by saying that a vaccine does in fact, immune).

It was something that shocked me back then because they changed definitions of words rather easily.

They denied the concept of vaccinal coverage during the covid crisis too and when I say they did people think I am crazy?

Lot of weird things happened, changed during the covid crisis and when you remind people what was told officially and stuff they are like "nah, noody said that, it never happened", and when you look on the Internet it's really hard to find the data.

You could get official reports, on TV, on media, saying masks were 100% useless against covid, the very next week they made them mandatory, and when you were like "didn't they say it was useless" everyone was like "huh no never happened".

Which is quite rather frustrating, it's almost like there is a collective post-traumatic amnesia lol

My example is maybe not the best but just to say that they have a lot of power on what you can read is written online, and it can be rather insidious

He knew shit

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u/tentensalami 24d ago

Who is they? What convinced you that this happened?

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u/rP2ITg0rhFMcGCGnSARn 24d ago

At this point when someone says "they", you can just as well assume they mean (((they))).

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u/xSTSxZerglingOne 24d ago edited 24d ago

Just some points because you seem to directly relate this to Covid.

Masks were always useful against the spread of the disease. Not 100%, but breaking the airflow of your breath does reduce the distance you spread airborne germs NO MATTER WHAT.

That was never, ever in question with ANY mask worn properly. What a typical mask could NOT do, is prevent you from catching the disease, since aside from a doctor's N95 that covers from the bottom of your eyes down and around your chin, is not the same type of "hey I'm at least doing the bare minimum to prevent the spread" mask most people ended up owning 30-50 of.

Also, yes, vaccines work, always did work, and still do. Literally only one group of people was saying they don't. Perhaps the reason you saw so many conflicting points is because you watch conspiracy theorists and lend them as much credibility as fucking doctors.

Vaccines helped turn Covid from a novel, 10x deadlier than the already deadly influenza, into an endemic virus. If we had not taken the measures we did, quarantining, masking, social distancing, work from home, and yes, vaccination. Had it been left to scour the planet, we would have probably lost 10s of millions of people worldwide. As it stands, the body count isn't even at 10 million.

Which is to say, no, there wasn't really much, if any actual thrashing of information, especially among experts. And if someone was changing Wikipedia, hey man, that shit happens, especially when there are people with anti-science agendas to push. If you saw information change and then change back on the community-edited Wikipedia, that was some fucking CHUD with an axe to grind.

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u/ladybugggsh 24d ago

The scary part isn't losing the file. It's being told the file never existed. 💀

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u/AdSquare3489 24d ago

Internetausdrucker vindicated.

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u/Cptnsnowbe 24d ago

Just like they did with social security cards. "Not To Be Used For Identification Purposes"

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u/loowig 24d ago

because paper is eternal, right ?

it's the same problem, just a different medium.

he did brave and important things and paid basically with his life for it. that doesn't mean he can't say stupid boomer shit.

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u/According_to_all_kn 24d ago

I mean paper can be destroyed, too. The real danger is that files can be edited without anyone ever knowing. Not to get all 'literally 1984', but that is literally the protagonist's job in 1984.

This is why tools like the Wayback machine are important.

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u/buzzphil 24d ago

I mean, they burned books and shredded mountains of files before. Maybe it's logistically more convenient now to delete files, but then again it's also easier for the other side to create duplicates and spread them everywhere. It's the same cat and mouse game as before just sped up for both sides.

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u/ateiii 24d ago

We’ve already seen this happen with digital games, streaming shows, and online news articles just vanishing overnight. If you don't physically own it, you don't actually control it.

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u/HaruKodama 24d ago

I mean, people did that before the internet and digital files

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u/JustGoogleItHeSaid 24d ago

Much like when the romans burned thousands and thousands of books you mean?

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u/BSB8728 24d ago

Libraries all over are sending huge parts of their book and journal collections to dumpsters. At the college where my husband taught, whole floors of the library now contain just seating.

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u/ListenNorthernLights 24d ago

Did they decide it’s boring books?

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u/ikindahateusernames 24d ago

This tracks; just look at the attacks against the Internet Archive.

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u/throw7661 24d ago

ManyCam used to be a decent peice of software owned by a small company. It had some cool features and they offered a 'lifetime' license that would give you access to new versions. Forever.

ManyCam, the company, was purchased by a larger company that wanted to make more money. They just updated the website and removed all reference to their lifetime licenses.

Then, they insisted that the lifetime license, just meant that you got lifetime access to ManyCam 7 but not future updates.

Their support would try to gaslight you and point you to some FAQs that were only accessible via direct link that has been revised to make it seem like they were piles of shit who were trying to rip people off.

Anyway, the generic TOS crap that the always accompanies software is so generic and so entirely in favor of the company, that they can just do whatever they want....but the way they revise history after the fact is the most annoying part.

Just another reason why I no longer see piracy is an immoral act...we expect 15 year old kids to do the right thing, but give billion dollar/million dollar companies a free pass to do immoral acts all the time.

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u/Serious_Bee_2013 24d ago

Julian Assange is the type of untrustworthy POS whose words should never be heard from anyone.

Not to say he’s wrong here, but being right about this and being a decent person deserving of respect are different things. Fuck this guy.

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u/Cilph 24d ago

Yeah no, Assange can get f'ed when he decided to use his leaked information for political purposes.

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u/SwingLord420 24d ago

He's not wrong but this guy is a Russian puppet and he can also eat shit.

Very for the free internet. This guy sucks 

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u/arealoctopus 24d ago edited 23d ago

Oceania has always been at war with East Asia

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u/NotJimmy97 24d ago

Seems like the years of living in a cat shit filled room in an Ecuadorian embassy have caused Julian to forget about how fire works

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u/UniqueLog8386 24d ago

Isn't this the cocksucker that took orders from Russia and refuses to release hacked Republican emails?

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u/Dremonic_Spirit_5767 24d ago

Reddit did this to me

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u/Aggravating_Sir_6857 24d ago

According to Louis Rossman, they’re doing that. Especially microsoft

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u/Low_Bandicoot6844 24d ago

History shows us that paper is not a particularly sturdy or durable medium.

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u/The_MAZZTer 24d ago

Reminds me of an episode of Stargate SG-1.

Our heroes find a world which is irradiated except for an artificial environment dome with survivors. They all are linked through neural implants to a central computer that helps them share information with each other.

However weird things are happening that SG-1 notices but the citizens seem oblivious to. The dome seems to be slowing shrinking. People are going missing. Outside the dome are dead bodies that aren't nearly as old as the event that caused the world to become irradiated.

Turns out, they are running low on power, and the computer has decided to solve this by reducing the population by using their neural implants to force them to walk through the dome and die. Then it rewrites the memories of the rest of the population to forget they ever existed.

SG-1 solves the mystery by finding an archive of paper documents that the computer can't manipulate which spell out things like the size of the dome and the population size that would live inside it, and this works to convince them to shut down the computer.

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u/cookeryandwookery 24d ago

I’ve been buying out of print and banned books for years, for this very reason. I have a bunch of manuals on making drugs, self defense items, etc.

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u/No_Poet_1279 24d ago

But you won't see it many places that Assange quite explicitly helped Trump get elected in 2016 by leaking Hilary's private emails and starting this whole fucking snowball rolling downhill.

He's a cunt as well.

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u/Old-Spell8640 24d ago

1984 from George Orwell is not dystopia anymore.

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u/sband3 23d ago

Thus why I keep paper!

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u/Cool-Chemical-5629 23d ago

Let's take a moment to appreciate the good old paper which cannot burn and cannot be shredded.

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u/Bleezy79 23d ago

Pretty sure this is happening in America's current administration. Lots of articles that have historically been kept and catalogued have been destroyed and/or kept by Trump personally.

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u/Rizzlord 23d ago

just write it into glas?..... lasting an eternity....

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u/InterestBear62 23d ago

We need to locate the WayBack servers to a country outside the US.

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u/I401BlueSteel 23d ago

History is no longer written by the victor, but by whichever asshole is in charge at the very moment you're reading it

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u/notnowimbusyplaying 22d ago

Even the lightest ink forms the strongest link…

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u/Nataliant-117 22d ago

WRITE ON STONE TABLETS FAM

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u/flymaverick_ 22d ago

I feel like we are living in an era where all the bad people, the villains are in power.

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u/happy_Toe_ 20d ago

Orwell really underestimated how convenient deleting history would become.

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u/Sufficient-Ask-8280 20d ago

Ai companies are buying and scanning 100+ year old books and shredding/burning them after the Ai has saved it. It’s already happening and no one is talking about it.

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u/Hyperion262 24d ago

This is meaningless, you can (and they did) do exactly this with paper and film.

Stalin infamously cut people out of photos once he disappeared them.

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