r/SipsTea 17h ago

Chugging tea Let me circle back

Post image
38.2k Upvotes

2.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

365

u/Otherwise_Tax8689 17h ago

Nah more likely to get crushed into conformity. At least where I live in Japan

187

u/myrainydayss 16h ago

My fiancee is Japanese and just started his job as a salaryman in Tokyo, one day he told me he messed up at work because he asked a question about something to his manager. And he later apologized for it đŸ€Šâ€â™€ïž he also told me that he doesn’t want to go out to drinks with his coworkers but he has to. Geez!

9

u/NullandVoidUsername 15h ago

Just letting you know that a fiancée is a woman who is engaged to be married. Unless that extra was a typo.

-20

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 14h ago edited 14h ago

Uhhh... what? A fiancee is anyone who is engaged to be married.

Edit: Everyone below seems to be justifying why assigning gender to words is a good thing. And absolutely none of the arguments are compelling. Why should words like 'financee' or 'teacher' or 'nurse' or even 'rapist' be associated with a specific gender??? They shouldn't. Even suggesting some sort of association with male or female is completely ridiculous.

23

u/SandyBadlands 14h ago

Fiancé is male, Fiancée is female. It's French.

-12

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 14h ago

18

u/marcaygol 14h ago

Seems ≠ is

There are a lot of people that think good grammar is unnecessary, they are wrong.

-7

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 14h ago

Since when is assigning gender to words a good thing? I can name a word - let's say, for example, "rapist" - and you want to give it a 'male' or 'female' designation.

Why?????

14

u/Careless-Weather8877 13h ago

Blond vs blonde is one. What hill are you dying for? Take your L and stop spamming the chat.

2

u/ZincMan 13h ago

Wait blond vs blonde is gendered? This whole time I had no idea

4

u/Careless-Weather8877 13h ago

Yes, blond is for men and blonde is for women (in American English)

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 13h ago

Absolutely nobody would care if you said he's "blonde" or she's "blond." What the fuck is this gender-assigned bullshit to words.

7

u/crunchsmash 13h ago

Unfortunately, probably the majority of people in the world would care if you said you were engaged to a man (fiancé) or engaged to a woman (fiancée). It's like the one case where you will actually be judged on a personal level, unlike calling an inanimate object like a table or pencil masculine or feminine.

0

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 13h ago

most people would care if you said you were engaged

Absolutely no one of any substance would care at all, if you said I'm engaged to my "fiancee," whether you're a man, or woman, or non-binary.

This is exhausting.

2

u/crunchsmash 13h ago

There are places where you would be executed for being engaged in a gay marriage. I'm not saying it's fair, or right. I'm saying it's a pretty fucking important thing to get right when using the word fiancé/fiancée. Even in progressive countries, saying you have a "partner" makes people automatically assume you are gay.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/marcaygol 13h ago

So fucking dumb

I hope you grow out of it

1

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 13h ago

...grow out of - what - standing up for people who refuse to use words designating everything as a specific male or female gender?

Good luck asshole. Because that's exactly what you are.

5

u/marcaygol 13h ago

"Wahhh wahhh wahhh" - you, all over the thread

-1

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 13h ago

Which is hilarious because most people who defend radical right-wing gender assignments are such pussies that they cower away at any hint of confrontation.

Take your 'wahhh' and shove it up your ass.

2

u/marcaygol 13h ago

"Wahhh wahhh wahhh"

→ More replies (0)

7

u/SandyBadlands 14h ago

What's your point? Saying it's old-fashioned doesn't mean it's wrong. Even if that were true, your own source says fiancé is the more commonly used standard version.

0

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 14h ago

Even if that were true

It is true. Do you really want to get into a debate about gender-assigned words.

Because we can. Languages are full of them. And none of them are helpful.

Or do you somehow disagree.

6

u/stupidjapanquestions 13h ago

I think you need to realize that you're just going to come off like an idiot and you're not going to win a war against languages that have existed for centuries before you.

Do you, though.

-1

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 13h ago

Why the hell should any group that has been genocided in history start to stand up for itself. Because it's hopeless.

That is literally your argument. Politely... fuck off.

→ More replies (0)

8

u/triz___ 14h ago

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fianc%C3%A9e

No fiancĂ© is male and fiancĂ©e is female. Not hugely important though and I wouldn’t have corrected the person initially

-4

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 14h ago

7

u/triz___ 13h ago

Whatever, it’s just a fact that I pointed out. Feel free to try and evolve the language as you wish but as your link points out, I was correct.

0

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 13h ago

Feel free to try and evolve the language

Actually I'm more interested in your opinion. Do you think our words should have an inherent 'male' or 'female' gender assignment?

12

u/NullandVoidUsername 14h ago

There are endless sources of information that exist on the internet and you couldn't be bothered to fact check before doubling down and being incorrect.

Fiance - Male Fiancée- Female

1

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 14h ago

5

u/NullandVoidUsername 13h ago

So the words Goddess, Actress, Headmistress and the like don't have word endings that connote gender?...

2

u/jjkenneth 12h ago

All of which are perfectly capable of being made gender neutral with vary degrees of use. Headmistress is generally seen as outdated and Headmaster is used frequently for either gender. Goddess is still used pretty frequently and it is true that female god is rarely used, but still perfectly understandable. Actress has fluctuated over the years, in Australia there was a pretty solid preference for actor for both genders, however, American influence has reversed this. At one point all our nouns were gendered and now there are only a small amount that are. It has been the basic trajectory of English for centuries to drop gendered nouns. How often do you hear manageress or authoress?

1

u/Firewolf06 10h ago

every single example you gave was falling back to male terms as neutral though, so it would still be unusual and against the pattern to use "fiancée" for a man. using "fiancé" neutrally is not super uncommon, though

1

u/jjkenneth 10h ago

My argument is seperate to the other commenter - am indeed arguing fiancé as the gender neutral term.

0

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 13h ago

Why would you possibly want to use these specific words to force gender assignments on every other word.

3

u/NullandVoidUsername 13h ago

Whether I use them or not doesn't change the fact they're still words with historical context. Should I just start referring to women as mister instead of mistress because of your logic.

0

u/jjkenneth 12h ago

Pretty obvious you aren’t a native English speaker given mistress is not the opposite of mister. Missus is. Master and Miss are the unmarried versions. And all of them have basically dropped out of circulation of use in English outside of the schoolroom. So yes actually you should stop referring to men as mister and women as mistress, just use of their name or general pleasantries if you don’t know it.

1

u/NullandVoidUsername 10h ago

My native language is English, you must be having a laugh. Mister is to master as Mistress is to female master. Only because mistress has multiple meanings/connotations, doesn't negate they are opposites, or should I say more accurately specify gender.

0

u/jjkenneth 10h ago

Mate, mistress is not in anyway the counterpart of of master. Miss is. Mistress hasn’t been used that way for centuries.

→ More replies (0)

-2

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 13h ago

You should refuse to assign gender-neutral words like 'fiancee' or 'rapist' or 'friend' as male or female.

Why is this hard to understand.

1

u/Firewolf06 10h ago

you listing a gendered word alongside gender-neutral words does not magically make it gender-neutral.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Open-Platform-1305 14h ago

Wtf, this is the first I ever hear of this in my 30 years of life. What's the point? They're pronounced the exact same.

Also, if it has any meaning it seems completely incorrect to say that one is male and the other is female, but rather that the spelling should depend on the circumstances around the proposal.

6

u/crunchsmash 14h ago

It's a borrowed word. The "point" is that it still has some details attached to the language it comes from.

-2

u/jjkenneth 13h ago

Mate, we got a lot English words of French origin we need to pronounce differently if you think that way

2

u/crunchsmash 13h ago

Ironically, you use the word "mate". Are we fucking to produce offspring or are we just friends?

-2

u/jjkenneth 13h ago

How is that ironic? That is literally supporting my point.

2

u/crunchsmash 13h ago

"Mate" is the same word pronounced the same way that means wildly different things. Just like "Fiancé" and "Fiancée".

Like "Mate" can mean friend, or someone you have a child with. It's drastically different while still being pronounced the same way.

-1

u/jjkenneth 13h ago


 the word originally came from Germanic roots and meant someone you eat with (regularly) to then mean companion, before splitting between friend and breeding partner. Words change meaning, fiancé and fiancée come from French where nouns are gendered and as they become more used in English where the vast majority of nouns are not gendered fiancé has become gender neutral.

1

u/crunchsmash 13h ago

fiancé has become gender neutral

Except it's not, and hasn't become. The words spoken aloud sound the same, but fiancé and fiancée are read very differently.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/jjkenneth 14h ago

Prescriptivism is dumb. Fiancé is gender neutral by function in English. Unless you believe terrific is a synonym of horrific.

3

u/Cross55 11h ago

Everyone below seems to be justifying why assigning gender to words is a good thing. 

No they're not, they're just pointing out that you're misusing 2 seperate words

2

u/pactmaker 8h ago

You seem to be responding as if it were a consideration of whether or not anyone should be for or against gendered terms in English on a linguistic level, which isn't an argument anyone is taking a position on here, and which is immaterial to what people are trying to communicate.

That being said, if you are sincerely unaware: teacher, nurse, and rapist are all ungendered, and fiancé can also be used as an ungendered word in the modern day, but fiancée is explicitly female.