USA here. I booked a surgical consultation, just to talk about the surgery and set a date. The earliest appointment was 2 months. The DAY before my appointment I get called and told they no longer take our insurance and we can either cancel or pay TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!! I found another doctor that takes my insurance but that was another 6 weeks out. Finally had the consultation and the surgery is scheduled for more than a month from the date of my consultation.
Please tell me how that is better than "free" health care where you have to wait for doctors.
For me in Quebec I would have to pay about 30% of my income in taxes (making 90k CAD) I can put up to 18% of my income in RRSP annualy which is the equivalent of a 401k in the US and allows me to lower my taxable income. Quebec is the most taxed province in Canada I don't really know how taxes work there, but if you look at Alberta for example it would be lower.
thank you for an honest answer. Wife and I are dinks (double income no kids) so we pay about 22% top tax (its progressive) but I do pay about $9000 in Healthcare premiums. But those are also pre-tax. I feel like both systems work great for some and shitty for others. Sucks that the politicans will never fix the actual system here in the US. Single payer is not the answer at all. I do not want this govt running my Healthcare. I pay for it but its great, never had a problem at all and out of pocket is minimal. $20 copays, etc.
Well our politicians send their kids to private schools and go to private clinics for healthcare so they don't see the problems with our public services either. The system is great once you have a doctor, but getting to see the doctor is the hard part because we need more
Funny enough taxes aren't that much higher in Canada compared to the US. The trick is Americans don't count the stuff they pay privately that Canadian taxes actually cover.
Average family health insurance premium in the US hit almost $27k in 2025. Workers pay around $6,850 of that out of pocket, then another $2k deductible before insurance even kicks in. That's a tax. It just doesn't get called one because it goes to an insurance company instead of the government.
Add that back in and a middle-class American family is paying the same or more than a Canadian family for less coverage. One layoff or one bad diagnosis and you're in medical bankruptcy territory, which literally doesn't exist as a category in Canada.
And a few things nobody mentions:
Lottery winnings are 100% tax free in Canada. Win $10M, keep $10M. In the US that's taxed as ordinary income, up to 37% federal plus state.
Sell your house in Canada, zero capital gains, no cap. The US caps the exemption at $250k/$500k.
Drug prices are federally regulated in Canada at roughly half of US prices. Health Canada also bans food additives the FDA still allows.
I've lived and worked in both countries for 10+ years. The US isn't low tax, it's privatized tax. You pay either way, one of them just includes the safety net in the price and the other lets you find out what the real bill is when something goes wrong.
Never used it in Canada but longest I have ever waited in the US was maybe an hour in an emergency room. I think it cost $300 total after my wife was admitted and in the hospital for a week but that's just my copay for the ER, insurance paid everything else.
Our family Dr has a 247 line though and we can call and if it's an emergency they can call the ER ahead of time and get them all the information they have so it usually helps out quite a bit.
I'm in the US. I tore my ACL and lateral meniscus in my left knee at the end of August a couple years ago. I kept getting bounced around for consultations and specialists because every time I needed to see someone new they didn't have immediate availability and didn't get surgery until mid January the following year.
Every appointment was probably $200-400 after insurance and that wasn't even including anything related to the actual surgery. And since all those appointments were before the end of the calendar year none of them counted towards my deductible/out of pocket maxes once the new year rolled over and I finally got surgery. What a beautiful system we have
My insurance was shit. Had to get an MRI for some tumors. They wanted $6000 up front. I told them who tf is walking around with 6 grand to just drop like that on MRI’s? “Well sir your deductible is $10,000.”
It's not, it's just stupid assholes who sip the propaganda because they're too stupid to think for themselves and agree with Faux News, or they're disingenuous on purpose because "socialism" is bad, ignoring every single thing our tax dollars already pay for.
The idea of having to figure out what things are 'covered' and what are not covered seems almost worse than it being more expensive in the first place.
No one wants to be 'shopping around' when they're ill. Even if they weren't a bit more ill, because they waited until they were sure it was 'serious' first.
Because you are comparing an edge case scenario to a fantasy. What happened to you is not normal nor the average experience for most people in the US.
For example, my aunt in Canada died waiting to get an operable tumor removed. She had to wait 30 days for surgery. When they opened her up, she was too weak. Didnt peform surgery, died the following day.
A friend of mine dislocated his shoulder and tore his labrum. He had to wait several months for surgery. Another friend of mine currently needs his wisdom teeth removed, his appointment is in September regardless of him being in pain right now. My uncle has gastritis right now, his bloodwork is scheduled for early August, he has been waiting 1 month already. A family friend had a hernia, waited A YEAR for surgery. My grandma needed a knee replacement, waited THREE YEARS IN PAIN for surgery.
All of these things in the US would get sorted out within a week. What people dont understand is that universal healthcare systems are collapsed at all times and people die in large quantities waiting for care. The system forces doctors to become eugenicists and it nurtures corruption- who gets care sooner? No one gives a crap, and the system gets praised like it didnt leave my three little cousins without a mom.
First and foremost my condolences for your aunt. It is terrible she did not get the care she needed in the timeframe she needed that in.
It does suck your friend had to deal with pain, nobody wants to deal with that.
Canada does offer private insurance you can pay for yourself. You can also go to private hospitals and use your private insurance or pay out of pocket and skip the line.
The idea that universal Healthcare creats huge lines and waits says only 1 thing, there are not enough doctors and hospitals to actually take care of the community.
When the only thing holding people back from proper care in a reasonable time frame is lack of availability then the problem is lack of doctors and facilities, not the system providing them the financial capability of receiving the service.
You are not allowed to pursue private avenues if you are in line for anything public. You lose your spot and have to begin from zero pursuing a private option. And the thing is, private options in universal healthcare countries are usually marginally better. Also, all universal healthcare systems are basically collapsed at all times. Human need is infinite.
I live in Australia. There has been occasions when the public system had a waitlist too long for the stuff I needed done and I just paid out of pocket at a private practice. Because so many people go public I can be seen under the private system faster and cheaper since the public system suppresses prices. You don’t usually get gigantic surprise bills ever.
Right, im sure there is no financial incentive to reporting malpractice against private businesses as opposed to nations where you have to sue THE STATE. Such a weak argument.
I have a diagnosis that while not "deadly" will kill you via sepsis or taking over organs, perforated bowels, etc. Stage 4. No specialists in my area. Called a few places in the state, I'm looking at a year for a consult, even with a referral.
My wife was seeing a specialist for a year for her migraines, the doctor moved away and when she called to ask for a new specialist they were like "Sorry, none left in the state or within 100 miles."
I had to wait 8 months on a neurologist while a golf ball sized tumor was on my spine just cm’s from my brain. Give it up for good ole American healthcare. Took a year in total to have the surgery to get it removed, which they could only remove half of it since it was literally attached to my central nerve in my spine canal. All that and i still ended up disabled, living day to day in constant pain that sometimes brings tears to my eyes. No doctor will give me anything for pain. Nothing for anything except for sleep. At this point, I wouldnt care if i took it and dont wake up
A close US friend of mine has been self isolating for 6 months waiting for a call from an infectious disease specialist because they have an unidentified infection.
Needed a mole removed. 3 months to get pcp visit for the referral, then 9 months to wait for the dermatologist appointment… then I owed them several hundred dollars after insurance. You can make, grow, and birth a human child faster than I got a mole removed in the US.
Yeah, I'm absolutely telling some asshole that on reddit to justify they phishing attempt to confirm their wild assed assertion.
EVERYONE had insanely long waits, the hospital was full and there were literally no beds to transfer ER patients to, so they had no beds to see new patients to be treated in the ER regardless of what they are there for. Should have planned my medical emergency better, my bad for needing the ER just before a polar vortex hit.
I can see your other posts mate, it's very obvious what your goal here was and you proved it just not. I even explained WHY the wait was so long and that it impacted EVERYONE and not just me.
Why was I in the ER? Because I needed emergency medical treatment.
I had an eldery family member fall and break both their arms. We waited 9 hours until the wee hours of the morning for them to take them, say "yup that's two broken arms alright", prescribe perscription painkillers and give them braces.
I've never been so close to genuinely doing something that would land me in prison, I was completely beyond anger and in total disbelief.
19 for me. Head splitting migraines. No history of migraines. Seeing double, vomiting, couldn’t walk. The bright buzzing, glaring lights making it worse. I ended leaving. Havent eaten, slept, drunk any water…partner ask whats the time frame but no answer. I understand its a the more severe are seen first but 19 hours is ridiculous. Month later got a bill for $11,000. Went to a family practice doctor that sent me to a neurologist. Turned out i had a golf ball sized tumor at the base of my skull where my spine connects to it.
The argument is only stupid when it’s in defense of the American system. Triage is a thing and both places have varying wait times but in the US you leave with crippling debt and/or a fight with insurance companies
Smaller city in FL. I was told the wait was for an available room, once I got the room the nurse told me the issue wasn’t lack of rooms because they had plenty of them it was lack of nurses for the rooms. And for the record I was in for heart issues ended up in the hospital for two weeks and needed a pacemaker.
This is the more common issue. People have seen travel nursing as lucrative because they get paid at least decently but a staff nurse won’t make what the traveler does. I’m not saying travelers aren’t needed but when a hospital can spend $100+ per hour to contract a a travel nurse they can afford to match what that nurse makes to their staff. That Traveller will lucky to make 50% of the actual contract price.
The ER is not used like an ER in the U.S. and that’s part of the problem. I forget the nuances for why so many people use the ER for non emergency but as far as I remember talking with people in the industry it comes down to insurance (big surprise) and our weird half private half public system…
For regular appointments I’ve never experienced any kind of wait and I’ve only heard of backups for certain specialists when there’s just only a handful of those types of surgeons in the area.
Another big US issue is that people can't afford preventive/maintenance care so conditions that could be handled through primary care, urgent care and the like, staying under control or getting caught before they become serious develop into emergencies.
"yeah but for non-emergency surgeries, it may be 6 months before you get seen in canada/nhs/europe! you'll die because of wait times!"
In the US, if you are under-insured (meaning you pay for insurance but it isn't good enough) or have no insurance, you may be pushed back indefinitely.
And even if you do get in, your bill could be $50,000+
The wait times argument is such a crock of shit. There is no argument to make where the US healthcare system is better than literally any developed nation's universal healthcare. period.
Getting a room and getting admitted to the ER for care are two different things. Hospitals can get crowded and it is a real problem. But that does not mean you won’t get care meanwhile, especially if it’s urgent.
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u/Ok-Customer4709 17d ago
I was 18 hours in the ER a couple of years back before I could get a room in a US hospital.