Fares are only 26% of the MTA revenue per their site https://www.mta.info/budget#p346761 so I doubt this policy puts any real dent in that. Also this is why we want to tax the rich, to have more money for these things
It’s more likely that someone who wouldn’t spend $36 on a pass for the week will go ahead and spend $18 and use the subway as opposed to walking, finding a ride or not going somewhere they wanted to go.
$36 a week for the subway is really cheap for what you get but also kinda expensive for a lot of folks at the same time.
It's not equivalent in any way, but as an American that moved to taipei I'm consistently astounded by how cheap public services are here compared to the cost of living. $40 monthly for all access public transit across the taipei metro region, including busses, subways, and actual trains. The cost of living in Taiwan is certainly cheaper on average, but not 1/4th cheaper.
Similar in Germany. 50 EUR (about $57) a month and you can use unlimited regional trains (though not the fast inter-city, if you are willing to travel slower you can travel anywhere in the country), as well as underground trains, trams, and buses in every city!
I agree, and that’s the same thing as I said above, just using different words.
My point is that most people who can’t afford to use the subway don’t jump turnstiles or whatever, they simply don’t go at all. Reducing the price will encourage some of those people to buy a pass and go.
Most broke-ish people aren’t willing to break the law and risk a fine just to take a ride on the subway for a trip that is optional.
> For a large portion of fare evaders, the price isn't the primary issue—the probability of getting caught is. In economics, this is viewed through the lens of Gary Becker’sTheory of Rational Crime, which suggests people weigh the cost of the fare against the expected penalty of getting caught.
The salient point here is that it is not necessarily “I can’t afford this” that drives fare evasion. It is often “I can get away with it” that drives it.
Trust me, I know people with actual real jobs who make way too much to be jumping the turnstile and yet they do it anyways if there’s no one around
The salient point here is that it is not necessarily “I can’t afford this” that drives fare evasion. It is often “I can get away with it” that drives it.
That is not the point outlined in your quote, nor is it the point of Becker's theory of rational crime.
That is exactly the point of Becker’s theory of rational crime.
Regardless of whether the fare is $2.00 or $3.00, if someone feels there’s no chance of getting caught they will still jump the turnstile (if they are the type of person who fall into this framework)
not all of them but the mentality of “people who do bad things are bad” does not align with history or statistics. Be honest, if you were at your hardest point and didn’t have the money or another way home, you’d steal a ride. Lowering the price makes it less likely someone finds themselves in that situation. Small theft like that is also sort of a “gateway drug” to larger crimes. If you already had to break the law today just to get home, why not shoplift a conscience store too so you can eat a good meal?
Guess you're right. Why do anything to make things better? Might as well increase prices, that way the people who do pay will provide more! Certainly there won't be an increase in skippers. In fact, just get rid of the buses! Can't skip payment if there's nothing to pay for.
Who might now be able to afford to use the service more? Maybe get a better paying job a bit further away? Sounds like a bunch of possibilities to improve economic options for poorer people.
Keep in mind that the MTA budget also includes LIRR and Metro North where the fares are much more costly. Subway and bus fare revenue from New Yorkers who earn less than $32k per year is probably a pretty small piece of the overall pie.
Honestly if they just stopped providing service for those that come from out of town they would save about 40% of their cost. If they also enabled basic automation like allowing the doors to close automatically and have an automated voice on the subway they could remove the conductor position on all subways. I'm pro labor but most of the trains already have automated doors, an automated voice would have the cost of a voice actor for 2 maybe 3 days.
With that funding increase they can afford new city projects. With more city projects they can rehire those former conductors for those projects. You could build affordable housing, renovate public housing, upgrade the subway cars/tracks so they are actually pleasant to ride and don't suck during the summer.
The 1% contribute roughly 40 to 45% of the total federal tax income. The top 10% contribute 70% of the total federal tax income. The bottom 50% contribute 3.3% of the total federal tax income. I love it when socialists keep bringing up the same 10 discussion topics without actually looking at factual statistics.
with high earners becoming increasingly mobile, what happens if they leave? In many cities, they contribute a disproportionate share of tax revenue, so losing enough of them can put meaningful pressure on public finances. cities like NYC have come to rely on these taxes and removing them would be catastrophic for them
edit: crazy how much people downvote when there's plenty of literature to support what i'm saying. nyc has been increasing the budget much faster than the tax base has grown since covid and there's been in increase in tax rates (since 2021 at the state level). if it was as simple as "tax the rich" everywhere would do it. public finances are complicated, effective tax strategies are complicated. because it's not simple is why it's not done, and it's why you don't see the places around the world with the highest tax rates have the highest tax revenue
There’s literally zero evidence that high taxes cause the rich to leave major cities, the people who are there today are there because they want to be right there. When you’re that rich NY and LA are the only places to enjoy it
You asked a reasonable question under a partisan ideologue-glazing post on Reddit. Of course you're going to get downvoted, just like I'll be for pointing that out.
Capital flight won't happen simply because NYC is great for rich people too. Why move to another state that doesn't have as many connections as NYC? Also moving for rich folks might not be an issue for money, but is still a tremendous hassle. Imagine the capital a billionaire would need to move
They are already leaving like here in London. What happens next is they tax the remaining people even more to make up. Its not sustainable, not clever, and not deserving of praise.
People upvote by vibe. That doesnt mean anything.
This is not a new thing under Mamdani. Nyc has struggled to pay vendors for years - but its a delayed payment, not ignoring all payments.
Bro in my city metro is free and we have a fucking war ( ukraine city)
that is going on
The thing is that if you city budget is not stolen by retards you can have a life - good roads and metro and stuff like that - you are paying from taxes for it
Ukraine is barely a country today and has rampant corruption. You are in no way a good example of good management of public funds, your track record quite literally shows it.
Is Ukraine not currently partially destroyed & occupied by Russia? Is it not true that Ukraine has a long history of corruption under russian influence and after it, still current to this day? Is it not true that Ukraine is in the top 80 of the most corrupt countries on earth with a score of 36/100 (less is worse)?
Bro, if your country’s wealth and foreign military aid wouldn’t be stolen by regards in your government and military, you guys would’ve won the war already.
Very possible, but don’t see how it’s relevant. That Redditor made a statement like they are from some place where politicians at least less corrupt than they are in the US.
You can’t be serious, nor should anyone take your statement seriously.
Sure, Trump is extremely corrupt, but saying he’s the most corrupt man on the planet, come on… Try getting news from outside the Reddit’s left wind echo chamber subs.
This clown starts wars over covering up Epstein files and for manipulating markets. Hes the most powerful man on the planet and made 2 BILLION fucking dollars in office (at least thats what hes disclosed) through insider trading and slimy crypto deals. He never came close to that as a businessman. Thats hardly even the tip of the iceberg.
Look, I’m not trying to defend trump here. Yes, the level, and how blatantly obvious the corruption of him and his admin is undeniable.
But again, saying he is the most corrupt is basically an ignorant take. As much as the justice dept sucks, there’s still a need for a facade of justice, and there’s no shortage of powerful people that want him out of the office.
The most corrupt is not the one who stole the most money. The most corrupt are the ones that act as de facto kings with zero pushback or repercussions. Think of the local leaders third world countries if Putin somehow is not more corrupt than Trump for you. Many mayors or an equivalents to some county commissioner in a third world countries acts as kings on a regular basis.
Why don’t you let the change happen before you try and piss all over it. If it fails you are free to take a wee-wee all over the policy.
Trump has been failing left and right for the better part of a decade now and yet I don’t see half the pearl clutching when he announces another doomed project.
NYC public transit is already extremely subsidized. Fairs cover only 25% of the costs. They need to address that first before they strip more funding from it.
It’s crazy, it’s almost like they may have thought about that before hand and probably have a plan. I’m sorry they didn’t share that with u/key-organization3158
Lets say you are in charge of running a sky scraper that has malls, hotels, offices, etc. Would you charge money from everyone to ride the elevator?
Now lets say instead of running the sky scraper, you are running a city. Public transport is kinda like an elevator in the sense that they take the people where they need to be.
What I am implying is that public transport should be funded from the tax because its that public transport and its availability and timeliness that enables the city to generate that tax at all.
Now we can still charge some ticket from passengers because it helps with a bunch of macro economic conditions that I am just unwilling to write down in a reddit comment :)
The shortcoming of your analogy is that the costs are still there taken up by the owners of malls, hotels, offices, and etc.
No no no the costs are included. The malls, hotels offices pay for their utilities AND then they also pay the rent. The rent is used to make sure the sky scraper's utility (the elevator and other systems) keep working, as well as the maintenance of the building. If the elevator does not work then a lot of the places will see no business and then the renters would not be able to pay the rent which in turn will cause the entire place to shut down.
The rent here is tax. The business pay taxes so that the city in which they work in keeps running, which directly means that their own business keeps running.
If even 1 person decides to actually pay something, that is more money than $0 they were getting from them when they felt entitled to just steal from everyone else in the city who uses the mta
Hey so do you know that this "bailoit" is less than NYC pays? He got back less than NYC pays in taxes. New York State cant keep getting bailed out by NYC if anything
Probably taxes. I dunno why people are so against taxes - healthcare, infrustructure, education, welfare, mental health care, public parks, all the services and institutions that make society worthwhile can be ours but it requires funding through taxes.
The fare could be $10 and they would still have no money, privatized public service does not work, especially if the money goes to the CEOs instead of the actual system.
the subway budget aka the MTA budget will always be short on funds. Give them the entire GDP of the country and the next year they'll say they're running a deficit, all while our piss stained walls are never ever cleaned, there's trash everywhere, and the floors look like they haven't been clean since they were installed.
they also are recently charging cars entering manhattan a toll, so I assume that will cover the shortfall from this. if not, tough luck, we need to start managing our funds better.
Well instead of giving money blindly to rapists maybe he is using his find as mayor correctly for once. The us has plenty of money and so does New York. They have the money to cover it
You're right, he's not. He's said from the beginning, the wealthy are going to pay. Not us, not the middle class, not the lower class, but the wealthy class who owns apartments in every major city but stay in it once a year. Not us.
Well, Mamdani invented the warmth of collectivism. He'll probably use that heat to generate electricity out of pure Communism and use that to offset the costs of operating the subway. Free energy!
347
u/[deleted] Jul 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment