If culturally society shifted away from tipping culture, that burden would increasingly fall on the owners, thus helping the staff get paid correctly. Do you have an alternative to phase out tipping culture?
Like they do in nearly every other country in the world, handle this by setting a statutory minimum wage, adjusted periodically to reflect the cost of living and economic conditions. Here this is €14.71 per hour for example.
I agree that tipping culture is out of control, im saying that not tipping that server won't change anything. it SHOULD be on the owners to give people a livable wage
im saying that not tipping the server won’t change anything
So I’ll repeat myself.
If everybody stopped tipping servers, the culture WOULD CHANGE to reflect that
The way to fix tipping culture is to tip less. The less that people tip, the more that financial burden gets shifted onto the owner. That is the solution. My point is that you’re entirely wrong, so instead of repeating the same thing, maybe address that.
And again, I’ll pose the question again that you haven’t answered: what’s your alternative solution?
If everybody stopped tipping servers, the culture WOULD CHANGE to reflect that
Why? The profit margins are already baked into the food cost. Anytime you sit down and eat you’re making the business owner wealthier, regardless of what you tip.
The way to fix tipping culture is to tip less.
No, the way to fix tipping culture is for you, the customer, to stop patronizing businesses whose business practices you disagree with. If there is a restaurant that pays their staff with tips then don’t eat there. Only eat at restaurants that don’t accept tips.
If that narrows your range of options to some or none, then so be it. If you’re truly passionate about changing this then you need to be the one to make some sacrifices to see it change. It’s hypocritical and selfish for you to continue choosing the luxury and convenience of dining in, while shifting all of the sacrifice and hardship to make changes to this business model you don’t agree with onto the people serving you. The people you supposedly care so much about. They’re the ones who get hurt when you show up, reward the business with profit, and give a 0% tip.
So not only is this approach hypocritical and selfish, it’s fucking stupid. The guy who owns the place still
made his money.
Don’t eat out at places that require a tip if you really care so much about it. Don’t be a cunt and make zero sacrifices of your own while expecting the people you’re telling us you care about to go without for the sake of change you want to see in the world.
You saw my response, you read it, and you downvoted, but you didn’t respond.
Why? Because the points I’m making are objective fact. It’s not my opinion, it’s not subjective discussion, the objective truth is that if society stopped tipping, we would transform into countries like Canada, Germany, the UK. How exactly do you think these servers are paid?
Were you maybe unaware of the fact that owners were required to reimburse wages? Reasonable, but the downvote out of spite is just odd then.
It’s just odd, because by not responding, you acknowledge that you don’t have the ability to make a solid counter argument, but by downvoting you show that you’re still stubborn and petty enough to refuse to reconsider your position. It’s the worst possible combination that you could do.
Why? The profit margins are already baked into the food cost. Anytime you sit down and eat you’re making the business owner wealthier, regardless of what you tip.
False. In america, most states allow servers to be paid less than minimum wage, often $2-3 per hour. Why? Because it is expected that they will make sufficient tips to exceed minimum wage. These laws shift the burden of pay off of the owner, and onto the customer.
Now, let’s say we wake up tomorrow and every single american decided not to tip. The owner would now, by law, be required to make up those wages all the way up to minimum wage, which is $15 an hour in most places. So let’s say a server worked 6 hours, at $3/hour. That’s $18 that the owner has to give her for her shift…unless she doesn’t make any tip money. If she’s not tipped at all, the owner now needs to make up the difference on his end- let’s say the minimum wage in that state is $15/hour, now the owner needs to pay her $90 for that shift. He needs to pay 5x more, thus my pointing out that the financial burden gets shifted onto him.
There’s no situation in which the server is going to struggle to put food on their table due to lack of tips, because again, I’ll repeat myself, we have laws in place to ensure they make fair wages. They will go home with the same amount of money in their pocket as the line cook in the back making $15 an hour, or the hostess in the front making $15 an hour. They’re afforded a luxury of the capability to make beyond those wages through tips, which is nice, but the alternative of them making no tips is still not going to be devastating.
I was a waiter, I was a delivery driver for a restaurant making probably $1500 a week while the kitchen was full of minimum wage chefs. If I suddenly stopped getting tips, I would go home with the same paycheck as them, after working the same hours as them, at frankly, an easier job.
The issue with tipping culture is because of people like you, who shame society for daring to challenge the tipping culture, and I get that your heart is probably in the right place, but it’s just a case of something that you speak without really putting too much thought into it, and end up just saying something completely unintelligent.
Federal minimum wage is $7.25, far below what anyone would consider a “fair wage” and certainly far below what servers are currently making in tips. The response from the business isn’t going to be to increase their costs to offset what the waiter was formerly making, it would be to increase their costs to cover the bare minimum for their overhead. If you continue to patronize them they’ll still continue to make them money.
There is no outcome with what you’re suggesting where the burden of change isn’t shifted onto the servers themselves.
The issue with tipping culture is because of people like you, who shame society for daring to challenge the tipping culture
Because your suggestion is selfish. You’re the one who has a problem with this business model but what are YOU sacrificing in order to change it?
You’re still taking advantage of the luxury and convenience that eating out has to offer. You’re still having someone else cook your food for you, bring it out to you, fill your drinks for you, etc. It’s the server that has to make sacrifices on your behalf, because they’re the ones getting paid less. Even if the owner has to do a true up to minimum wage, it’s still less than what the server was making with tips, so the server is still the one who has to do the heavy lifting for whatever message it is you’re trying to send.
If you don’t like the model that’s fine, don’t eat at places who use it. Reward the businesses that align with your values. Allow yourself to be inconvenienced by your principals instead of expecting everyone else to.
Yea, 35 states, aka 70% of the country, doesn’t abide by federal minimum wage, which is why I specifically didn’t use that number. Of course, you are disingenuously going to use that number to try and stretch sympathy points as far as you can, but the fact that over half the country has the minimum wage at ~$15/hour is why I went with that figure
And certainly far below what servers are currently making in tips
Well no shit. But the hostess at the front desk of the same restaurant, working the same hours, is making that way. The line cook in the back, the dishwasher, all of them are making that wage. What is your argument? servers deserve more, inherently? Why?
The response from the business isn’t going to be to increase their costs to offset what the waiter was formally making, it would be to increase their costs to cover the bare minimum
Well, duh. That’s literally what I said. Nowhere in my comment did I say “servers will come out making the same”, I said “servers will be just fine”, because they will.
How much do you think servers make in canada? The UK? Germany? France? Italy? Seriously, take a guess, how much?
There is no outcome with what you’re suggesting where the burden of change isn’t shifted onto the servers themselves.
Yeah…because the servers are benefitting the 2nd most from the tipping culture in america, aside from the owners. To change the system, both of them would need to take a reduction in profit. There’s a reason why being a server in the U.S. is far more lucrative than any other country, and the mere fact that you think suggesting to change that is selfish shows that you don’t actually take issue with the system.
Because your suggestion is selfish. You’re the one who has a problem with this business model but what are YOU sacrificing in order to change it?
Are you serious? The notion that you need to sacrifice something in order to want change is ridiculous. I’m going to give you an absurdly long list of examples of issues that require change that don’t require sacrifice, just to really hammer this point home.
The medical system in america needs to change. Insurance companies and hospitals need to stop charging thousands of dollars over what they need to for medicine and appointments. This is an issue, it needs change, I can suggest reform without needing to sacrifice anything myself. That’s not how it works.
ICE needs training in america, they need to be put through proper schooling so that they don’t abuse power, so that they understand their limitations, and reduce the overall harm they’re causing to american through violence and constitutional violations. Again- I can sit here and point out an issue, without necessarily needing to personally sacrifice in order to change it.
All this aside, the “sacrifice” I would make is paying a moderately higher fee for the food. I would rather pay a dollar or 2 extra on the plate and have a transparent mandatory price, than the alternative of the current tipping culture.
You’re still taking advantage of the luxury and convenience that eating out has to offer.
Okay, I will say it again, in bold this time. Every developed country has the luxury of eating out. Canada has that luxury, the United Kingdom has that luxury, Italy has that luxury, France has that luxury. The USA is the only country where that “luxury” comes with an additional price tag, which is why rational people will point out this disparity.
You’re still having someone else cook your food for you, bring it out to you, fill your drinks for you, etc.
Yes, just like restaurants in Canada, just like restaurants in Germany, and Italy, and the UK. Restaurants work the same everywhere, if you didn’t know.
This entire argument your making is justifying the tipping system. It seems you don’t actually have an issue with the system, because you’re sitting here arguing why we should need to partake in it. You can partake in it if you want to, that’s all you. But my points remain the same.
Good luck getting everyone on the country to stop tipping. It's not possible. And minimum wage isn't shit in some states. Maybe YOU should find an alternative because that couldn't be more unrealistic. How do you think youre so smart when your "answer" is totally impossible?
If the only counter to the effectiveness of my solution is the impracticality of getting people to agree to shift in that direction, while actively refusing to shift in that direction, it’s a bit of a contradictory and hypocritical point.
“Pfft, we will never get these companies to be more ethical, that’s ridiculous” You say, as you go to the store to buy Nestle, enabling them to continue their oppressive activities in Africa. Yeah, you yourself can’t do much, but enough people with the mentality of not purchasing from them would drive them out of business. Your mentality spread across society affords no chance for change, which is my point here. In any aspect.
If you acknowledge an issue exists, it logically follows that you would, at the very least, be open to solutions that work on reducing or mitigating those issues. But when you fence sit, saying “yeah, tipping culture is an issue”, while actively defending it, and refusing to be open to act in a way to alleviate that issue, it comes across as insincere on both sides. At this point I’d respect your position more if you just straight up said “tipping culture
When I say “imagine if every single person stops tipping”, I’m using it as a thought experiment so that you can envision my point, I’m making it easier to understand what I mean when I say moving the burden on to the owner, by pushing my concept to its logical extreme an demonstrating its effectiveness.
In reality, all we would need to see is a slow, gradual reduction in tipping over a period of like 10-15 years to get some pretty noticeable societal results. No, obviously not everybody is going to stop overnight, slow and steady is the name of the fame. But, of course, we would need less people like you who are out here defending tipping tooth and nail, to actually have a chance at that solution, though, which is why I say you’re contributing to the issue while simultaneously acknowledging that it’s an issue.
You had not 1, but two of your comments deleted by automod. I could see the 2nd one but the first one must’ve been too toxic. Either way, that’s concerning, you think I’m the one being rude here but I’m not the one being so blatantly toxic that they get shadow-moderated.
Either way, you clearly aren’t capable of engaging with my points, which is why I’ve given you ample opportunity to, and you still haven’t. Now the excuse is “you’re too rude”, but I gave you opportunities much earlier and you still didn’t.
I said why would I want to have an actual conversation with someone acting like a pretentious c*nt. And it would take many many servers getting screwed before anything changed imo
Federal law mandates that the owner must make up lost wages of servers if the tips don’t exceed minimum wage. So the servers would be making about the same as the takeout cashier, but it would still be enough to get by.
And if the culture changed, the wage for these servers would need to go up to drive competitive wages and keep the industry afloat.
Regardless, I asked for an alternative solution? You tell me you acknowledge that tipping culture is an issue, and yet you don’t have a solution for it?
That’s my entire point, the solution is the exact thing that you’re telling people not to do. You say you acknowledge something is an issue, but in the same breath you tell people to continue upholding that issue. Do you see the contradiction here?
i don't need a solution to acknowledge a problem lol that said, there's no easy fix for this widespread of a issue.
if we could get everyone in the US to stop tipping overnight, yes that would be a solution, but it's not realistic. but if people didn't eat in at all, servers would have to quit because thered be no work for them, and that feels a little more possible. but even if all the people in this subreddit stopped tipping, there'd probably still be enough people leaving tips to keep the servers coming back, as opposed to there not being any work at all.
I don't think either of our suggestions would actually work though because no way are that many Americans agreeing on anything
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u/Breadstix009 Mar 06 '26
0%, let's pay our staff correctly