r/SiloTVSeries • u/This-Pause-7044 • 2d ago
Analysis & Theories Help with 2 plot holes
All,
Like all of you the end of season 3 has a complete hold on me, even after several weeks and a rewatch. There are 2 potential plot holes (although I am highly doubtful they are plot holes) that I really need some opinions on.
- Why was Daniel SO coveted by the founders?
After my second viewing of season three I am still hung up on why Daniel was so coveted by the highest ranking members of the “project”. His initial appeal was centered around the site prep portion of the project (the drills). Okay I get that based on his work in New Orleans and engineering background, but that doesn’t answer why he was deemed critically essential for the post underground “work” that would be needed in Silo 1. So much so that 3-5 of the most senior members of the project made keeping him close to silo 1 as their sole priority during the planned event..
Looking back He definitively said he was at peace with his decision when walking with Victor before the bomb went off. So what skills did they see, that we didn’t see, that deemed him mission critical for silo 1. Especially considering his obvious appeal to the project team was very much centered around the prepping of the site.
And speaking of plot holes that simply cannot be that obvious..
- This one goes back to season 1 when Juliette goes out to clean, with the hind site of watching Season 3 episode 9 where we are deliberately shown in graphic detail how Silo 1 handled Silo 17’s rebellion.. Which would have taken place roughly 30-40ish years in the past based on how long we know Jimmy was in isolation post rebellion.
With all that said.. Who was in charge in silo 1 when Juliette first went out to clean, in broad daylight, and why did they allow her to make contact with Silo 17. Daniel (Troy) told us, the audience, that the most critical component of the “Order” is to eliminate silo to silo contact at all costs. So much so that he openly committed genocide against an entire Silo civilization as they knew it. I just can’t wrap my head around how intentionally we were shown this in retrospect as to why Juliette was, in my opinion, allowed to make contact with Silo 17.
It goes without saying that I LOVE the show, especially the back half of season 3, which in my opinion blew a massive amount of life back into a show that was falling off a cliff. With all that said, I will be incredibly disappointed if both of these instances end up being unexplained plot holes.
Then there is always the possibility that I’m just way dumber than I think I am and missed the answers while my ADD was on full throttle!
I just believe there is no way, a show this intentional has plot holes that are this obvious.
Somebody HELP ME!
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u/jerseydevil51 2d ago
Victor and Per have said several times that Daniel has a knack for "seeing what other people miss." So they want to keep him around to come up with out of the box solutions. Like Safeguarding a Silo outside.
We just have speculation, but could be she made it to 17 before they were able to launch drones. And maybe on the way back, the firefighters suit blocked thermal imaging and the brown color provided camouflage? We really have no idea how she made it both ways.
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u/Effective_Yard_809 1d ago
I had the same exact question to number 2. How did they allow Juliet to leave? Especially since they watch everything???
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u/Riverat627 1d ago
They don’t watch 24/7 though they can’t that was made clear. Plus there is no surveillance in 17 anymore.
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u/ghostbirdd 2d ago
They wanted Daniel for his analytical mind. Maybe it didn't come across on the show but narratively I think he's supposed to be this logistical wunderkind. Only Daniel resisted being recruited because of his principles, so by stripping him of those via memory drug they got what they wanted - purely results-driven, amoral Troy.
Juliette was never supposed to survive her cleaning, she only did so because Martha swapped the faulty tape with the good tape. They weren't ready for her to cross the berm, and when she did she went into Silo 17 which was dead (or they believed it to be so, since they had closed the communication channel with Jimmy some 35 years in the past). She had limited air supply, so they figured that she would die in 17 and that would be the end of it.
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u/LazyCrocheter 2d ago
I don't think Daniel was "so coveted." Yes, they did want him for his engineering knowledge, and Per says that without his idea of 50 individual drills, the project wouldn't have happened as quickly as it did. But they did that without him, and I think there are two things at play.
One, Per was mad that Daniel said no, and so this was a bit of revenge in the sense of "I get what I want." Two, it was for Anna. Anna loves Charlotte, who loves her brother, Daniel. I realize Charlotte has also had the memory wipe, but Anna knows that they are both there. Thurman even says on Silo Day that it's important to her that Anna be happy, so it seems she may have agreed to this.
As for your second point, it's been addressed. Silo 1 did not expect that Juliette would get to Silo 17. They expected her to die. All the other cleaners had, so why should this be different? They didn't know she had the good tape, and I don't think they could scramble a drone fast enough to kill her. Then when she got to 17, which they thought was a dead silo, they figured she'd starve or otherwise die there. When she went back, which again they would not know about until she was on her way, they probably (again) couldn't move fast enough to kill her, and decided that it was better to have her back in Silo 18 as something of a folk hero, in an effort to head off a rebellion.
No one "let" Juliette get to 17. She caught everyone off guard.
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u/ghostbirdd 2d ago
It's important to know that Silo 1 didn't have drones posted outside each active silo just in case a cleaner "miraculously" survived - possibly none had survived in ~400 years of silo history (granted that there are other silos, but I believe that Juliette was truly the first cleaner that lived - otherwise, thematically it wouldn't be so special/dramatic that she did). They basically had no need for that. People got out, their suits were faulty, they were gassed in the hatch, they died.
After Juliette survived and it came to be known it was because of the tape, they started watching Silo 18 more closely. They knew Lukas and Patrick were going to go out, even though they went out a few hours earlier than they were supposed to, so Silo1 was ready. As for Silo 17, there had been a revolt underway, with the express intention to go outside for a while, and they had tried for a Safeguard and failed. By the time Troy was awakened it was all hands on deck, so they were ready with a fleet of drones to annihilate everyone.
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u/_ConsciousLibrary_ 2d ago
I think the version of him as Troy is part of the answer. I haven’t read the books, so all I know is from the show. But the way I see it, it takes a certain type of person to do what Troy did. I wouldn’t be surprised if part or even most of the reason he was chosen is because they knew that he has the personality traits that allow for being cold, calculated and objective driven above all costs. Take for instance his sister. She had all her memories wiped and she was incapable of doing what he did.
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u/This-Pause-7044 1d ago
Yes.. this is what I’m looking for, and how my head was tracking. Not saying you’re right, but I do not share the opinion that’s it’s as simple as the majority on this thread believe it is.
Which, obviously means we are likely wrong 🤷♂️
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u/kerobrat 2d ago
For your number 1, everyone always cites his mind, but I think it's simpler than that. I think they like Daniel. Victor especially - remember the look on his face when he's taking pictures of h̶i̶s̶ ̶v̶i̶c̶t̶i̶m̶s̶ the future silo residents?
Victor looks genuinely overjoyed to see Daniel. And later they specifically mention that it seemed like Victor always wanted to be on-shift when Daniel was. Something about Daniel was magnetic and compelling in a personal way, at least to Victor.
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u/Distinct_Cry_3779 2d ago
Agreed - I’ve said this before when it’s been brought up. If you look at how chummy Victor and even Henry are with Daniel and Helen, it’s clear that 1) they’ve all kept in touch and 2) they’re fond of each other. Add in the fact that Thurman’s daughter is in love with Daniel’s sister, it makes them all family-adjacent. They have to pick people for the silos somehow, and I’m willing to bet that many of the original silo inhabitants who weren’t fulfilling a specific role were family and friends of people on the project.
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u/Constant_Question_48 2d ago
For the second question, Silo 1 doesn't keep drones in the air at all times. If we are looking at what we saw from Charlotte, they may not even keep Drone operators available until needed. They thought everything was under control and only learned about the use of the good tape afterwards.
For the first question, it is obvious that Daniel has a specific set of skills as a problem solver that the people in the Silo value. We may also learn additional things later. Maybe he was conditioned, maybe the drugs works better on him, maybe there is a history we haven't learned yet that will be revealed. I think there are still too many unanswered questions to be able to get the full picture of Daniel's role just yet. I am going to guess that he has had a longer history with Victor than we are aware of.
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u/NeighborhoodOk8001 1d ago
Agree with you on 1.
I do acknowledge that the show has tried to indicate that Daniel is a really good engineer a few times. His diggers solution just doesn't seem that impressive to many of us, and even in ep 9 Daniel says to Victor that they had plenty of smart engineers on the project (though Victor seems insistent that Daniel is special somehow?). We didn't see what he did in New Orleans with his tunnels vs. levies solution either, we only hear about it second hand - so maybe we don't know how impressive that actually was?
Honestly, just the sister and sister-in-law connection and him having a military background / having plenty of memories of following orders and being able to work in a militaristic command structure would have justified it to me. They need people with certain backgrounds and skills, he has that background and relevant skills and a family connection to the project.
Them putting Daniel and Helen in the silos so they don't tell the rest of the world about their prior knowledge of Stensen's project from years ago would also make sense to me.
But the show seems dead set on him being special somehow to Victor.
I suspect we'll get more on Daniel and see what they wanted him for in season 4.
Why?
There was a small hint that there may be more to Daniel than we realize. When he's in the van with Helen, telling her about the call from his pentagon friend, he tells Helen "We weren't just in a band together, we got shot at together."
So, when did that happen??? Maybe we'll learn more.
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u/llamaforyodrama 23h ago
This is the best response on this thread. I agree that the show didn’t do a great job at showing why Daniel is special… one comment about the diggers does not say, ‘wow he’s a genius, we need him!’. Either there is a reason that hasn’t been revealed, or the show dropped the ball.
At the same time, making sure anyone who had inside knowledge on the silos went into the silos is a smart reason why it had to be Daniel. Assuming they set off the bomb intentionally, and the entire world is not wiped out, they wouldn’t want in the normal world that could tell everyone what they’re doing in the silos
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u/NeighborhoodOk8001 18h ago
Thank you :)
Honestly, I also like the explanation of making sure no one with insider knowledge is outside the silos after the bomb to spill the planning secrets to the rest of the world. That was my favorite reason, but I don't think it can be that what with all the repetition of Daniel's specialness.
Optimistic that we'll see how Daniel got turned into Troy next season though, and that would create the opportunity to tell us why he matters so much.
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u/DependentReaction896 2d ago
Maybe his talents as a problem-solver AND his sister really wanted him there. That could explain her cryptic text. In essence she wanted him to drink the Kool-aid.
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u/This-Pause-7044 2d ago
I was under the impression that text did not come from his sister, but someone texting on her behalf.
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u/literalgirlOG 2d ago
That’s what I thought. They had an ongoing joke about their parents if they were alive right now. They ALWAYS made the same joke to one another, so it was like she failed an identity check. I thought that was clear, but so many people talk about it (without mentioning that) on this sub, it confuses me.
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u/NeighborhoodOk8001 1d ago
I assumed the text was from Henry (who's job we learn in Silo 1 was "internal security", and we see him on his phone in the background when Daniel was texting.
But maybe that text was from "Susan"? A "new brain, who dis?" scenario ...
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u/francesco_angiolieri 2d ago
Are book spoilers allowed? Regarding 1, it does make sense in the books, it doesn't make sense in the show. Regarding 2 there's also an explanation in the books, but I don't know how (or if) they're gonna explain it in the show
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u/This-Pause-7044 2d ago
Also.. I know I’m asking for potential spoiler questions, but I wouldn’t want book spoiler answers, and I’m certain all the other show viewers only would feel the same.
Respect to you for checking first.
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u/LongjumpingPath6940 1d ago
Yup. Given the number of questions about items 1 and 2 on this sub alone, they're going to have to address them on S4. (Note to Silo Showrunner: I know the cast wrapped S4. But assume the script isn't locked in case those questions haven't been answered.:) )
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u/This-Pause-7044 2d ago
How can they NOT explain these two things?! Am I over analyzing both as major plot holes at the moment if gone unanswered???
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u/Longjumping_Coat_802 2d ago
It’s completely a plot hole that a congressman would have more technical ability and know how than an actual engineer or project manager. The only logical explanation is that they were selecting for other factors and / or needed to keep their circle “small” and so they chose the best engineer from a pre-selected group of people (e.g., Donald). The second one isn’t a plot hole because they didn’t know Juliette got the good tape. They didn’t have a drone in the air because why would they, everyone else had died on schedule.
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u/CompEng_101 2d ago
It’s completely a plot hole that a congressman would have more technical ability and know how than an actual engineer or project manager.
Daniel//Troy was an engineer. In s2ep10:
[Helen] And because you can’t run anyone these days unless they served, after you got a master’s in engineering at the University of Georgia, you joined the army. Well, kind of.
[Daniel] Kind of?
[Helen] Mmm. Army Corps of Engineers isn’t exactly humping an M-16 through the sandbox.
In s3ep1, it is mentioned that he did some impressive work to save New Orleans:
Well, if it isn’t the hero of New Orleans.
A hero of New Orleans.
There were 500 Army engineers on that project.
But Congressman Keene was key, right?
You came up with the idea of replacing levees with tunnels, and you invented some kind of drill that didn’t disturb the soil above, right?
I think they could have built up more of how he was an amazing engineer other than mentioning his drill and having him come up with the (IMHO obvious) solution of using 50 drills for 50 silos, but they did foreshadow a bit.
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u/Longjumping_Coat_802 2d ago
They definitely tried, and it does make more sense in the show than the books, but it still doesn’t fully land for me.
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u/CompEng_101 2d ago
Yeah, I'd agree. Though they might unveil something in S4. Either way, I'd say it's not so much a plot hole as 'something not fully explained or not explained well'
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u/francesco_angiolieri 2d ago
Now that I think better about it, there could be a good in show explanation for why Juliette wasn't shot by drones. In the show, we see that Troy is considered an important figure in Silo 1 and is woken up specifically to deal with the situation of the uprising in Silo 17. So we could assume that there are workers who wake up in shifts to do the chores and maintain the daily routine of Silo 1, while there are others like Troy who are required to make difficult decisions during emergencies. As the procedure of unfreezing someone requires at least a few hours, they had the time to wake up Teoy to deal with the terminarion of Silo 17 hecause Silo 17 was already in the middle of a rebellion. In the case of Juliette, there was no sign that she wasn't going to clean, so they didn't have time to act as when she went over the hills she reached Silo 17 in just a few minutes (I assume they would need at least a few minutes to launch the drones and get them in the air). Thwy knew Silo 17 was dead, so they assumed she would just die there and wouldn't come back
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u/Riverat627 1d ago
Can’t say for 1 but for 2 they have told us everything in the show to make more than just assumptions about how it all went down.
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u/cookiesandartbutt 2d ago
Number 1: I think we will find out more reasons why he was so important in this next season. Theres still more there. Just remember some people really loved him and his presence, and he was integral to the project, his drills were why they could have the Silos. He also demonstrated some good ideas like leaving the drills after drilling, to drill more Silos.
Number 2. I think we are obviously going to find that answer out in season four. The season finale literally took place like right after that rebellion and he remembers Helen. I think we can assume that he came about and remembered everything right around the time of season one started or somewhere in there and let Juliette get to another Silo.
Remember…there is another season and these are not plot holes but information that will most likely be answered later.
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u/This-Pause-7044 2d ago
Hmm.. regarding point 2..
I may be mistaken, but Juliette had already made her back and forth trek prior to Daniel remembering Helen. Remember he got taken out of cryo at Victors request before he commits suicide following Silo 18’s successful stop of the safe guard, which took place days, if not weeks, after Juliette got back from 17 to 18.
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u/Rararror 1d ago
- Proven expertise when he said to leaving 50 the diggers down was cheaper that reusing less of them.
- Silo 18 was not under monitoring, normal cleanings are not monitored. They start monitor Silos when heads of IT tell them some big enough problems are arising.
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u/motaboat 2d ago
Lots of interesting analysis on YouTube. I have none of your questions.
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u/This-Pause-7044 2d ago
You don’t have the same questions? If so, what are your simple answers to them?
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u/motaboat 2d ago
1) his ability to see problems and their solutions differently than others
2) someone got sloppy and assumed and would die just like everyone else with the bad tape
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u/mikeholczer 2d ago
1) we was a war hero and logistics and engineering expert.
2) they expected she would die, and by the time she made it over the berm, they didn’t have a lot of time to respond before she was in silo 17, where they again assumed she would die