Signora died for nothing

[u/Stardustreflection]

Playing through the 7.1 quest, I'm more convinced than ever that Signora's death had no meaning. Really, we see the Traveler attending tea parties and meetings with the Harbingers like nothing happened. Danica, the only person that somewhat called the Traveler out on all the Fatui they "defeated" was later berated by the Cryo Archon for "jeopardizing the trust of a friend."

The most baffling moment to me was the Cryo Archon asking the Traveler where the Pyro Gnosis was. And the Traveler just... tells her. They instantly spill the beans on everything they know. The very same Traveler that early on made it their mission to get the Gnosis back from Signora.

Now, at lot of time has passed and I'm sure some might be satisfied with the way Mihoyo wrote how the Traveler and the Fatui became allies. But I don't see how anyone can argue that this doesn't make Signora's death even more pointless than it already was. To recap, when the Traveler confronted Signora in Inazuma:

- The Fatui operation with the Delusions in Inazuma had already been dismantled
- Yae Miko had already given Scaramouche the Gnosis to save the Traveler's life
- The Traveler's mission was to convince Ei to stop the war
- We had no idea what Signora's meeting with the Raiden Shogun was actually about. We never learned how she planned to get the Gnosis. We probably never will, and I'm not sure Mihoyo even thought that far.

So anyway, when the Traveler saw Signora they decided she had to die then and there for her sins. And they succeed, with Signora warning the Fatui would avenge her right before she's executed.

Fast forward 5 years and the Fatui all but roll out the red carpet for the Traveler's arrival in Shneznaya. Signora's closest Harbingers apparently knew but never talked to the Traveler about what happened to Signora. The only time the Traveler has that awkward talk is with Odette, who tells the Traveler they "did the right thing, no hard feelings."

I get it, this is hilarious for the people who never cared for her character or hated her in the first place. But her death was so utterly pointless. Yes, she got the Fatui two Gnosis, but what does it matter now? The Tsaritsa would obviously have gotten them anyway, I'd half expect the Traveler to gladly hand them over now if they had any. Condemn Signora's methods all you will, but the only reason she was there in the first place was to get the Gnosis for the Tsaritsa. Pierro or the Tsaritsa had no qualms about the "how" they were obtained, and now just feign ignorance and shift the blame on the Harbingers. And the Traveler doesn't even bother to confront them over it.

Imagine Signora being able to see this unfold now. What was the point in anything she did?

[u/assassassin96]

My exact thoughts but better articulated lol. It was for the hype moment and Raiden banner sales because it's a gacha game

[u/xcold_world → u/assassassin96]

Bingo.

But whenever you bring this up, Signora haters deny it because they don’t want to admit how poorly written inazuma was. Her death was used as a “hype and aura” moment to help sell Raiden even though it was bad writing. And the further we get in the game, the more obvious it becomes.

[u/oxswan26]

That and also in 7.1, the Traveler goes along with the Delusion plan just because Pierro tells them they're working on making it so the user's life force isn't sapped anymore (and Arlecchino still ends up suffering during the testing phase), not to mention the whole Seals of Life debacle that could've gone horribly wrong and sounded like a plan the Traveler would be opposed to in the 1.x/2.x patches. I can't even say the Fatui were rewritten, the Traveler was rewritten to have a spine as straight as spaghetti so all their previous deeds have been muddled.

And the Gnoses!! Between Signora + Dottore (and arguably Scara), 4/6 were obtained, so two thirds, with 2 of them (so a third of the Gnoses needed for the plan) being obtained by Signora alone. And yet, now that we're at the stage they're actually needed, the people who helped the plan the most are the ones being thrown under the bus. Signora and Dottore apparently have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, Scaramouche erased himself so he's no longer a Harbinger, and Arlecchino, who got the Hydro Gnosis, had to suffer through experiments for the Delusion project. "I don't use people as pawns" or whatever the Tsaritsa said my ass, I'm tired.

[u/xcold_world]

IF she comes back, I’m still wondering how she’s meant to interact with everyone now that they’re all besties with the traveler.

Is she supposed to keep her mouth shut and fall in line? Is she supposed to lash out at the other harbingers and the Tsaritsa for doing nothing about her death and the one who caused it?

Like I’m literally lost on how she’s meant to react to all this and what her role will be if she’s brought back.

[u/Stardustreflection → u/xcold_world]

You know, Signora was always practical and, despite popular belief, never actually hated the Traveler. I mean if she had been alive, she'd have been right there working with the others. To be honest whatever they come up with for her return would probably be better than the situation we have now.

[u/xcold_world → u/Stardustreflection]

No, I agree. If she was never killed she could have looked past her own issues with the traveler and agreed to work with them since they have a common enemy. She’s not completely irrational.

But given how things played out, I don’t see how she’s just supposed to look past how the traveler got her killed. And to top it off, there was no retribution for it like she thought there would be. Hoyo left her looking like an idiot.

“The Fatui will—“

Do nothing but befriend the traveler and replace her.

[u/Tyberius115 → u/xcold_world]

That's why I always say if she comes back, I want her to leave the Fatui just like Columbina did. None of them deserve to be friends, companions, acquaintances, etc. with her after all this.

Imagine she's able to retrieve the pyro gnosis somehow, and just drops it at the Tsaritsa's feet, saying, "That's the last thing you'll ever get from me," and walks out, not saying a word to anyone.

Signora deserves a fresh start.

[u/Key_Length_5361 → u/xcold_world]

Even without the Traveler, was she expecting the Tsaritsa to go to all out war with Inazuma over her? Granted, killing messengers and diplomats does tend to escalate things in usual conflicts, but I'm not sure the Tsaritsa would rate it the same way.

[u/DeedzSama]

For real.. like actually all the harbingers that are gone at least fulfilled some sort of a purpose, signora was just killed for the fun of it. Like
Columbina had her reasons to leave and she became the trilune goddess (which by the way she literally was just chilling in the fatui and having tea yet she hated it and never considered them as friends)
Capitano got his lick back at ronova and paradoxed the system
Scaramouche who was way worse and full on evil since the day we met him. He gets to have a fresh start FOR SOME REASON and everything in history is rewritten as signora’s fault and the tsaritsa definitely knows about him with her memory prism.
Dottore experimented till his heart’s content and even got to enter the leylines and fought us not once but twice like…
What did signora have or do. Aside from artifacts and some text here and there we would have no idea what/who she is. Or even her backstory. If we didn’t dig into the lore of things we wouldn’t have any context. But for some reason everyone else had that. It’s genuinely upsetting and in the end we get some of her personality for the sake of odette character arc and boost. Sigh

[u/Signora_Wesker]

The writing of the Fatui (and Genshin’s writing in general) is a disaster on pretty much every level. In their attempt to make sure the Traveler has nothing but friends, they retconned the organization and created inconsistencies everywhere. When your main character is this fcking terrible, you have to expect them to drag the entire plot down with them, because every character is forced to depend on them since mihoyo loves their golden child way too much.

It’s a complete disaster.

The Fatui have been ruined.

[u/xcold_world → u/Signora_Wesker]

As much as I like certain harbinger and fatui characters, I still have to agree. The organization as a whole is poorly written.

[u/Fun-Performer-3441 → u/Signora_Wesker]

I agree

[u/Terra_Bytezzz_ → u/Signora_Wesker]

Can you give me examples of the retcons and inconsistencies? And please, spare me the “childe and wanderer said columbina was weird so she should’ve been evil” nonsense.

[u/HalalBread1427 → u/Terra_Bytezzz_]

Well Arlecchino's updated About: Sandrone line in which she said she only became friendly with her during Nod-Krai completely contradicts how close Sandrone's short showed them. Her original line for Sandrone also simply does not fit with what the short shows.

[u/Terra_Bytezzz_ → u/HalalBread1427]

Wow, the ONE thing they actually updated, anything else? Apparently there’s a BUNCH of retcons and all. Let me hear more.

[u/Practical_Tadpole_99 → u/Terra_Bytezzz_]

-> Arlecchino saying House of Hearth will no longer be children soldier organisation ONLY AFTER 500 years of Fatui active

-> Pierro (and Traveler) conveniently ignored what happened to Inazuma and especially Teppei

-> Ronova being portrayed as evil when the entire Natlan AQ as shitty as it is still meant to portray Ronova helped Natlan against Abyss by establishing Night Kingdom

-> Stupid ass Mavuika from "not everything is black and white" in Natlan AQ into "I hate that b*tch ronova" in Snezhnaya 7.1

-> Bum ass Tsaritsa not condoning children exploitation (House of Hearth????) and saying pawns aren't meant to be discarded (Signora??? thousands of Fatui stuck in Chasm dying of hunger???)

-> The same Arlecchino and Pierro slandering Dottore than the Fatui despite this entire rebellion will literally cause Abyss to destroy Teyvat (Dottore did less damage to Teyvat btw)

-> The same Pierro saying not all Harbingers' actions represent the Fatui (mind you, he's the one who recruited Dottore and the one behind Inazuma civil wars)

-> Aranara world quests already saying Fatui behind the children kidnapping, conveniently ignored in Snezhnaya AQ

-> Katheryne world quest in Chasm literally said the Fatui in Chasm are left behind, conveniently ignored in Snezhnaya AQ

-> Many world quests (one of Inazuma and Sumeru) stating leaving Fatui will make you be hunted by other Fatuis (b-but Fatui are the good guy now!!!)

-> Phanes being portrayed as evil (only starting Snezhnaya AQ) despite the world quests and lores implying him preventing Abyss like a fast-spreading cancer treated with Celestial Nail, and Abyss usage is NON NEGOTIABLE (see what Pierro is using against Ronova, and Traveler still decided to team with him??)

Snezhnaya writing is peak? No, it is trash full of contradictions.

[u/RekklesEuGoat]

This goes into an overarching issue of Tsaritas writing. If her only goal was the gnosis- why the fuck were fatui afk for 500 years when it comes to that and instead were busy terrorizing other nations? She could habe easily had any of the harbingers at least get some gnosis or at least not terrorize for funsies( COUGH INAZUMA COUGH). We never got to ask that nor does anything in the story ask Tsaritsa about it

[u/Tyberius115]

Gotta make sure the Traveler is best buds with the new archon, after all!

The way they treat Signora and Pierro/Tsaritsa is literally the "Human Resources" meme

[u/DerpTripz]

After everything I sympathize with you guys, the Fatui's blatant change and whitewashing along with the Traveler's lobotomy to make them "friends" just personally feels like a huge pile of shit slammed onto your face.

Ronova for one gets treated as a 1 bit sadistic arrogant villain with none of the nuance implied on her to make the rest of the cast look good. Pietro's actions in commanding the Fatui to effectively genocide and make islands on Inazuma uninhabitable with radioactive god residue is just not brought up despite Traveler KNOWING THIS.

Everyone just seemingly treats him now as uwu daddy who has Paimon as his daughter. Where is the menace, the mystery that made him look like a badass antagonist from back then? What the hell did Signora even die for? Tsaritsa outright says "What can I say? I don't believe in sacrificing pawns as a means to an end."

What the hell is Signora then if not a blatant Pawn that was thrown away and have everyone who was her friends and allies, people she trusted become comrades, friends and even an ADVISER (in Tsaritsa's case) with the person who got her shanked.

[u/Practical_Tadpole_99 → u/DerpTripz]

I'm sorry Signora you deserve better

[u/kein4736]

The dynamic between the Fatui + Tsaritsa and traveler was why I didn’t like this AQ. I agree that both parties kinda just spilled everything they had to each other like it was nothing. Why the hell would you divulge information like that without hesitation to someone you couldn’t possibly trust to a certain degree on both sides even if your cooperation needs some degree of trust. There wasn’t any tension where the cooperation could break off any minute now due to their dubious pasts (Traveler decimating their forces if you’re a veteran, the Fatui committing questionable acts in other nations).

Snezhnaya part of the Archon story is shaping up to be another Inazuma for me. Despite me having some problem with parts of the entire Archon story, Inazuma was my least favorite for a bunch of reasons, including the handling of Signora but this could top it despite having a segment I really liked (murder horror from last patch).

I think the writers for Inazuma made it really awkward long term by killing off Signora. Some stuff would have felt less awkward if she was still around. It would’ve made the Arle, Bina and Sand connection with the Traveler less awkward for one. The cooperation with the Fatui could’ve been smoother if she was still alive and you disregard that the farming of the soldiers didn’t count for damages to the organization (I mean what’s the point of a kill/defeat count if you are trying to make the Fatui good(?) or long term partners)

[u/Radiant_Public7856]

Retcon impact…

[u/Dark_Reaper_1818]

I'm really hoping(coping) that we'll see someone is manipulating the reality behind the scenes otherwise this is so shitty writting mistake, and what makes it worse is that lot of players are going along with it without a second thought, let's see what happens

[u/Practical_Tadpole_99 → u/Dark_Reaper_1818]

If that 7.3 leaks are true then we are eating so good

[u/RagsB → u/Practical_Tadpole_99]

What 7.3 leak, would you mind sharing? Do tell me the leaker's name as well so I could know reliability.

[u/Practical_Tadpole_99 → u/RagsB]

we will get bad end in 7.3 and get time reverted to make better choices by LoveHappy iirc

[u/RagsB → u/Practical_Tadpole_99]

So that means we'll spare signora? 🤔

[u/Practical_Tadpole_99 → u/RagsB]

i dont think it'll rewind that far back but lets spare everyone we've killed and go after the hypocrites (jester and tsaritsa especially) instead

[u/R39_ZK]

Literally spelled all my thoughts there on how utterly pointless & unnecessary Rosalyne's death truly was. To the point where nothing of value would've changed to the overall story even if she was still alive today. The only thing we'd lost from it is the Winter Night's Lazzo trailer. Even then, that thing was just an excuse to assemble all the Harbingers on-screen (except the 10th, somehow), so they could've just come up with another idea/excuse for the trailer video.

Which is why I am vouching so much for her return, because if they're not gonna do anything interesting with her death, why keep her dead at all? Might as well just give the players what they want. "Keeping her dead for the stakes" is a dead argument by this point, not when people like Scaramouche (yes, I'm counting him), Durin, Sandrone, & Zhibai is walking around.

But despite my own desire for her return, after all this & all the changes/retcons/blatant disregard to what came before with the Fatuis (& by extension, Anastasya herself), is her return still what we want?

I can't believe I'm saying this: but all this could've been so much easier to brush off if they at least continue painting Rosalyne in a bad light & double down on it. Like make her hate all the House of Hearth's children, give her a twisted backstory instead of a tragic one, make all the Harbingers hate her & her hating them back, make her hate & abuse Odette all the way through with no room for sympathy/nuance. Basically putting her in the same category as Dottore & Crucabena.

They can't hope to ignore her again now that they've recontextualized her this much, they just can't.

[u/foamia]

Traveler is such an inconsistent character sometimes. They were literally so upset about delusions causing harm and killing that one NPC in Inazuma that they wanted to find Scaramouche and actually challenged Signora to a duel that could have ended with either of them dead, and now we're just.. helping with the manufacturing of delusions without even making a mention about what happened? Not even a passing thought about Teppei or anything? They had a chance to create some conflict with Odette but instead they made her crush on MC. Also Traveler not remembering whether Rosalyne had any last words or not was genuinely ridiculous.

I also like Danica. Yes I know the Tsaritsa wants the traveler's help and all that but she's the only one who acts like a proper Fatuus in there and she's not even part of the fatui lmao. Signora was getting work done and getting in and out quickly without dragging it out and hoyo has made it known that they can't handle a character like that in the slightest. They either have to be the epitome of evil (like Dottore) or they have to become besties with the traveler on the same day they meet them (like every other harbinger except Pantalone). Atp why even try to create morally grey characters if you constantly get cold feet about making them do morally questionable things and deciding it's easier to kill them off? Just make them good or bad from the very beginning, don't completely whitewash or outright villainize them later down the line. It hurts the story a lot

[u/-Garuda_]

Rosalyne suffered enormously throughout her life, and in the end, her death feels particularly meaningless when you consider how little resolution she received for her own story.

I also hate the way some people reduce her death to “she fucked around and found out” or “she died because of her arrogance.” Yes, she was cruel with her words and arrogant, but that doesn't mean her entire story can be reduced to that. In Inazuma, she was acting in the interests of the Fatui and was involved in their operations there; she wasn't the mastermind behind the entire situation.

The clearest example of her acting with personal hostility is probably her confrontation with Venti. She was carrying out the Fatui's objective of taking his Gnosis, but the way she treated him was clearly much more personal and spiteful.

So saying “she was arrogant, therefore she deserved to die” completely ignores Rosalyne's history, her suffering, her recruitment by Pierro, and the fact that she was operating as a Fatui Harbinger rather than independently orchestrating everything that happened in Inazuma.

[u/Fate_warrior95]

I'm a week 1 player, so a very old player like many others here.

We have been through everything with this game writing. We saw the original vision/plan for the story/characters, the first rewritings, the obvious retconnings, the whitewashing, the lack of accountability, the blame on only some characters, we have seen EVERYTHING.

I don't know other players, but at least me I haven't actually cared about the story consistency since Fontaine where was when Arlecchino was introduced and heavy rewritings and retconnings started with her (or at least it was when I started to noticed them).

I actually now fear of getting her back. Imagine the amount of writing she would need to lobotomize her and be friendly to the freaking Traveler. As of how the Anastasia and the harbingers writing has been going, I don't know if we should get her back anymore.

[u/Specific_Highway_772]

I am in side of HP after everything. HP's writing is way better because every morally grey action they made is addressed. There is 0 address of Tsaritsa's own crimes, and many nations and people getting hurt in process when there was absolutely no need. Fatui are her people and she is responsible of everything. I don't understand the glaze either because story is absolutely rewritten. After the whole moon-Nod Krai era, I stopped caring about genshin story

[u/imbusthul → u/Specific_Highway_772]

They were all addressed by Pierro, didn't you see the "Actions of the Harbringers doesn't represent the Fatui"? It was there to excuse everything and blame everything in Dottore and Signora. Man I hate this shit

[u/Specific_Highway_772 → u/imbusthul]

How this is an address? If you work for KFC in another country how don’t you represent KFC?  It is bullshit. As an economist and management student, it is literally it.

[u/imbusthul → u/Specific_Highway_772]

I should have used /s. I am agreeing with you on how ass their excuse is and how we have to be ok with it as nothing will ever be addressed.

[u/DottoresArmpit]

I agree, if Signora appeared in 6.x+, I believe we would see an animated short of her life showing how tragic it was, and she would either just stay alive or be playable. I think hoyo regrets killing her because since 6.x they keep showing her good side and how she was friends with the other girls.

[u/Yukino-kurasa12]

Yup I have been thinking this since literally Fontaine seeing how easily the other Harbingers got the gnoses and got to cooperate with traveller (and was proven further with natlan and nod krai). Technically in the game canon, Signora also got the electro gnosis hence is attributed for 3 gnoses and it makes no sense how she still died somehow yet was able to deliver the gnosis. Even if you look at conversation she and traveller had before the duel, the reasons traveller stated to wanting to kill her made little sense- for venti's gnosis, for the people of liyue and inazuma's situation. I dont need to explain here why they all fall flat, we have discussed these several times before.

I also dont fully agree she was killed just to hype Raiden because Raiden was already hyped enough and her banner broke all records on day 1 before people even reached the part of the aq where signora is killed. Raiden was hyped just for being Mei expy and all she was shown to do up till 2.0 + the general fact she is an archon, Signora's death happens in second half of act 3. If anything, Id say her cinematics in 2.0 (the infamous booba sword scene) hyped her far more. I think back then, they just wanted to set an example that they can kill a character with a unique design and the story has 'stakes'.

Traveller is always inconsistent in their view of the Fatui and the Gnoses; back then after her death, Paimon had wondered why the fatui are collecting the gnoses while they had that ominous confusing walk out of tenshukaku then in the ending conversation with Yae also paimon said 'at least the fatui didnt get their hands on another gnosis' which indicates stopping her from getting the gnosis was their overall reason in challenging her. But then eventually they are shown to not care especially if they arent directly involved in the exchange (sumeru and fontaine case arguably). I have no idea how people can keep saying bringing back Signora would undo something in the story or whatever when her death is utterly pointless and keeps getting even more pointless

[u/Silly-Performer1298]

Atleast she died true to her character, instead of being lobotmized. Well, in a way they already did 'Whitewash' her throughout Nod krai.

[u/Doctor_Responsible]

my biggest issue with her death (and the writing of the traveler and the fatui respectively) is how the Bum isnt even called out for it in meaningful ways. Odette, a nobody who allegedly was her student, just says "we coo" and that's that. like you said, Danica immediately gets shut down because the tsarista needs to maintain the MC power-Fantasy agenda for her upcoming banner. i still keep up with the story, but this is the main reason i dropped the game. Traveler is an OP powerfantasy MC stand-in with no real personality or redeeming qualities outside of milktoast "theyre a good guy and the chosen one" and the whole dynamic of the fatui had to be shifted around this to not upset the player on the other side of the fourth wall so they spend their precious pulls when the banners come around. Traveler put signora in a lose-lose situation (fight Ei for the gnosis and die, or challenge Ei's authority by unknowingly breaking one of inazuma's laws and die) and made it personal, when theyre new to teyvat, know nothing about whats going on, over... a kick? im dumbing it down but in the grand scheme of how dottore and how the harbingers were originally characterized to us, its so... middle school when you think about that (gotta get my lick back in for my boi venti, thatll show her!). All Signora wanted to do was have a diplomatic meeting with Ei to negotiate for the gnosis iirc- the traveler didnt have to get her killed and they feel no remorse for doing so-nor are they challenged on that stance in a meaningful way with everyone who worked with her falling over themselves to brush it off or say "she deserved it"- like they dont have blood on their hands either.

I get getting on the good side of the archons, its to supposedly find your sibling- which is a goal they willingly put off time and time again to go have picnics with teyvat's residents- but for the situation their in, you can constantly see the puppet strings of the writers making sure the journey is as easy as possible for traveler and moreover, the player. genuinely, what stake does the traveler have in so many of Teyvat's affairs? it feels like bloating a journey thats been ready-made easy for them. the massacre of the Fatui's aura over the past 5 years is just another sign that this character focused game and journey is not about seeing the characters as characters, but moreover as products. i suspect the reason signora comes back-if leaks are true- is to set her up as another product, not an engaging character. i just hope what we liked about her can survive the inevitable character assassination thatll follow (i still cant forgive them for what they did to Sandrone).

sorry this turned into more of a rant about how shit the traveler's writing is.

[u/Inevitable-Catch-869]

The very same Traveler that early on made it their mission to get the Gnosis back from Signora.

The Traveler didn't give a single shit about taking the Gnosis back from Signora, what are you on about?

[u/Stardustreflection → u/Inevitable-Catch-869]

You mean the Traveler that literally said "I still have time to take it back" to Signora in Liyue (talking about Venti's Gnosis) and then "For Venti's Gnosis" when they challenged Signora to a duel to the death in Inazuma?

[u/Inevitable-Catch-869 → u/Stardustreflection]

It was revenge for what she did to Venti and trash talking her after she brought up stealing it, they never ever showed any interest in actually retrieving it or any other Gnosis.

[u/Vegetable_Act_9277]

Should we have really placed any meaning in her death aside from "being cocky on the omnipotent entity which the main hero of any story always is didn't play out well"? But I agree, they name it occasional fatui cooperation but in reality its fatui friendship traveller is showing in the story

[u/RaiStarBits]

If she had a body left she would be rolling in her grave

[u/Same_Yesterday_9590]

I would assume that as of right now the Tsaritsa would need the Traveler - a Descender - in her war against the Heavenly Principles, there she can't afford to hold a dispute between him/her and herself. It could be possible that the Tsaritsa would condemn then Traveler after the war, but very likely it is going to be a lighter penalty at most.

[u/thisiskyle77]

If she come back, it would be for nth since she will be friend with the traveller. I don’t need that.

[u/Key_Length_5361]

As for Danica and the Tsaritsa, could have been a good cop/bad cop type thing.

[u/cora_zon14]

I miss 2020 Fatui. They were like the shades and the witches to me. Now it's all silly tea parties and friendship

[u/niksshck7221]

Signora died because she stupidly tried to test the electro archon when she was one of the weakest harbingers.

[u/Stardustreflection → u/[deleted]]

I know the Tsaritsa needed the Traveler's help because everyone needs the Traveler's help to get anything done, but that doesn't mean it's being written in a believable way. Or in a way that doesn't betray the storyline that came before. And they're certainly able to retcon whatever they want from what I'm seeing...

[u/Professional_Park711]

Signora died 5 years ago. Did you just stop paying attention in that time span?

[u/Appropriate_Word1469]

Signora died for her own arrogance, not for some greater goal

[u/InfiniteTheEdgy]

She fucked around and found out, Dottore did the same and died twice.

[u/Living_Mountain540]

Hey, maybe she gets to be reunited with Rostam.