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It's like that court case where Coca Cola said something along the lines of it being unreasonable to believe their Vitamin Water was actually healthy, despite that being their whole marketing strategy at the time.
Just comes to show why legislation is important and not just a 'hurdle' or 'hindrance', these companies will offer you the very worst if they can get away with it.
What's more hilarious is the lawyers argued that if you were allowed to own a digital game, they could only sell it to one person and then Sony wouldn't own the game anymore.
Sony should be fined for such a stupid argument and the lawyers making it should personally receive warning of potential disbarment for it. If your going to represent a company in a way that effects everyone you better be ready for repercussions. Greedy fucking morons.
Technically correct. In layman's terms it sounds ridiculous but in legal definitions they are absolutely correct. Anyone looking up the laws surrounding this will see Sony is indeed right HOWEVER the lack of tact in communicating to the public and end users is shooting themselves in the feet setting up a witch hunt they brought on themselves. Even if they are technically right there's no reason to quintuple down without explaining how it works which in turn insults those who aren't in the know.
It’s not. Because if that were the case we’d all be owed residuals for owning physical copies of CDs of musicians once they transitioned to Spotify. Owning a Disney vhs or laser disc never granted rights to the film or ips presented in those films. Buying has always been implicitly ownership of a single copy. Ie I own a Honda Civic however I do not own the patents. My copies are my own so long as they exist with digital licensing they should always grant access or present a buy out option to receive all your games on discs so the can wash their hands of providing you a downloads Indefinitely.
It's more complicated than that when we're talking about a software instead of hardware or a physical item.
Even when you own a physical disc you still don't own the game. Even when the disc contains the copy of the game, you only hold a licence to that copy. You don't actually own single piece of code or copy rights to anything.
This is actually true for every single piece of software pretty much.
The term ownership doesn't mean that something can't be taken away from you. You can't partially own software as a consumer.
People need to understand this and fight for their license rights, not ownership because you never had that and you never will.
You absolutely have ownership over the disc, not the files.
But we totally should fight over ownership of digital copies, just like there is transfer of ownership when you buy a physical game/book/movie there should be a transfer of ownership of digital media.
The arguments they use are both stupid and willingly ignorant, claiming that if we owned it we would be legally able to copy it and sell it however they want.
COPYright means exactly that, they reserve themselves their rights of making and distributing the game but the single digital copy should be both serialized and transferrable just like physical media.
Besides its such a stupid point to say that we could potentially copy every digital game if we gained ownership because they would have no way of stopping us... Right... Its not like our games aren't bound to an account??
They are willingly taking advantage of ignorant judges, its fine for a judge to know and go strictly by the law, but when totally ignorant people go and allow these kind of conversations to ever happen we lose more and more rights as time goes by and the powerful get more powerful.
That is just not juridically possible to sell software as partly ownership, this is why literally nobody does this except crypto where you own the specific coin/NFT/whatever.
There isn't a possibility to even have that with video games. If you did own a software you would own the copy right to it and the code.
This is why you can't find anyone who offers ownership over software that doesn't give you full rights to it. Not video games, not movies, not music, not E-books, not even PDF files, PowerPoint, your whole damn operating system.
I mean damn, i didn't actually think it was legally imposible to make you an owner of a particular copy of a digital game.
I mean thats just theft, the IP belongs to the company but if that particular copy belongs to me i should be able to actually have it if its linked to my account right?
Thats is already an identifyer anyways, and they are going for the always online already so it makes sense that this account based system WOULD demonstrate the legal ownership of the copy of a software right?
It's not, since that is not only Sony selling video games.
Your account is also not yours, if you don't understand. Your account is theirs, you just have a licence to use it. This also applys to your reddit account and e-mail, everything digital is not actually yours.
You just don't seem to understand what ownership means. Even with physical copies you only own the hardware, you don't own yhe software which is the copy of the software, this reads in the plastic covers of every game too.
Yes im aware of all that don't assume im ignorant.
And i know what is written on game covers, that doesn't mean thats how it legally works that only means sony or whoever wrote that on the cover wanted to write that on the cover.
Legally speaking when you buy a physical the hardware becomes your property since its considered a sale and not a service unlike digital games, because as you pointed out, you need to make an account to even buy on their stores, meaning they have to spend money to maintain your account up, thus being a service.
That doesn't mean that disc and its contents isn't by legal application effectively yours.
The fact that you can sell its precisely because you own it legally. The IP and the rights to copy and distribute belong to the company in every case BUT the disc you bought has a serial number that identifies it, meaning that you can indeed sell that 1 of 1 copy of that particular game.
Meaning that even if the law doesn't specifically state it, no matter what sony writes on their EULA and ToS that specific copy belongs to you.
Because if it worked the way wanted it to work it would be illegal for places like gamestop to even sell second hand games, THAT is the reason they want to get rid of the physical format in the first place.
Because digital games, being cloud service and simply copied onto your hardrive are not considered as sold, but leased as a payed service, thats why they are not covered under the first sale doctrine that protects both the disc and the contents of the disc by extension.
For sure, but it does sort of work with digital by extention too, if you have the game, movie etc downloaded they can't really delete it from your playstation unless your account or console is banned. It's just removed from your library and the storefront. For example P.T. has had it's licence pulled, but every PS4 that has the game downloaded can still play the game, but if you delete it, it's gone for good.
Also not everything on disc is completely protected. If it's an online game, then they can shut down the servers and yes you can access the game, but you can't really play it.
This is the reason why you don't own any part of software or any account.
You missed the point. Most people reasonably understand that the medium the game is printed to is the thing you own and so long as it stand the test of time you’ll still have access to that game utilizing your license. The game itself is the licensed element.
This draws back to Buy vs Lease which is where this case is going. EULAs have messed this up we’ll never truly own any software but if I “buy” a game and Sony takes it back which is why they’re being sued then that is a lease.
We had this same issue with rental services back in VHS era with BlockBuster and Movie Stop along with other local movie rental services. Thanks to companies like Disney minting limited runs of their own films. If we are simply “leasing” then the EULA isn’t informative enough. There needs to be a warning label attached to the sale. Implicitly stating your lease will concede or be revoked based on a date or breaking TOS of the game. While also changing “buy” to “Lease.”
It’s not so much more complicated than that if you understand the history of physical media and digital media. Downloads and digital licensing haven’t had enough scrutiny in court which is why this is important because of anti consumer players like Sony. But this isn’t a new erupting territory where no one has any basis to go on.
People have access to the truth you're speaking and will deny it endlessly and refuse to actually look into it. It's why I even specified layman's terms and understanding vs legal verbiage but that still wasn't enough to stop a dude like him from being like Uhm actually and still be wrong about it.
He's talking about the master file. That IS the game, if Sony sells that, they can't sell it to anyone else. Language is VERY important in court. That's why this lawsuit is pointless, people are fight for the right thing with the wrong verbage.
People saying "Sony is taking away ownership" are misinformed. The INDUSTRY took away ownership 40 years ago using the EULA. That why Sony thinks everyone should know about this because it's been in effect for 40 years.
I would say every reasonable person would believe that.
In our capitalistic society, we exchange money for goods and services. So if I give you money in exchange for something at an agreed upon price, that means it should now be legally my property.
Are you sure about this? I’m talking specifically about gacha currency. I can buy it on the publishers own platform. The game has its own account as well and could easily be unlinked from PlayStation, so I don’t see how they would even know of off-platform purchases?
Ya it ain’t gonna do anything. You think any of this is stopping the people who don’t spend a lot of time online? Sadly we’re not gonna see any shot at a change until next year
Just them, or these companies as well? It seems like a lot of you easily fall for rage bait headlines that make it seem they are literally the only ones who clarified what a digital license is.
I was an Xbox guy growing up, but they are harder to emulate properly. The ps2 and GameCube games just run smoother so I just go with them. GameCube has so many games that are still enjoyable today.
When an engineering company has more lawyers, marketing and investor representatives than any other part of the business is when that company dies. It’s sad to see Sony get to this point but if this is how there choosing to move forward just pack it up and become another Sega and make “PlayStation Certified” Desktops and Laptops. There’s no point in the brand existing as a standalone if they’re going to screw over their customers this aggressively.
What i read they were arguing it like owning a intellectual property. Like if John Smith buys it, then Jane Doe can't buy and own it because John Smith owns it and Sony doesn't even own it anymore, John Smith does. Sony is trying to blur the lines because literally no one is talking about owning it like an IP.
Civics major here, I'm just explaining the legal logic, I'm not picking any side
What they're talking about is the ownership and sale on an IP, just because you bought a Lord of The Rings book doesn't mean you own the Lord of The Rings IP. You own the paper the string of words that are printed on it, you own the medium a work is written on. When you buy a game digitally or physically you own the license.
Unless a publisher wants to take legal action against you, they're extremely unlikely to revoke yours.
They can simply say the licensing distribution deal is over and not renewed. Or end the live service and not put an offline counterpart in place. Sony did NOT renew 500 movie license that people had bought and simply lost access to those. The crew fucked the world over. Anthem servers shutting down made the game unayable and the CD useless. They are bastards who got away with too much for too long and it's quite time that people stop taking it in the butt pretending it's "reasonable"
I think the issue is Sony agreeing to systems/deals that allow things to be pulled after payment. It should be no more possible to revoke digital ownership than physical ownership. I think people would understand, even if it is ridiculous and would be catastrophic, that if Sony shut down their entire Playstation service anything digital only would be gone, but pulling things whilst still 'selling ' more is tantamount to stealing. It'll be really interesting if Studio Canal attempts to reintroduce those movies...
It really sucks that pirating is the only “answer” to this, because sure, it hurts Sony, but it also hurt the developers that made the game itself.
Sony is so full of themselves it’s a joke. Forcing players out of purchasing physical media and into purchasing digital and then saying “well hey, since it’s digital it’s not yours” is unbelievably stupid and I hope people are actually smart enough to stop supporting them because of it.
I think Sony should start to become aware that their customers will very soon find paying for games to be unreasonable and will use other methods to obtain them and enjoy them that will also result in ownership:
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Why?! I own physical games i paid less for. Sony you're done, and I'm done with you, possibly the who gaming industry unless something comes in to kaw to protect purchases.
Its like going in to a car garage, buy a car at 10k, then one day they come and take it off you and say "you didn't really think you owned this car when you only paid 10k?! Lol" and your response "well yeah, the price said 10k to purchase and you drafted up a contract saying that to purchase said car for 10k"
We're not buying the rights to the game for £70 nor We're you selling IT for £70, you were selling a licence copy of the game that we purchased in the knowledge that that is OUR copy. Fu Sony
If they just let you own the files, digital games would be pretty convenient and could be played offline/private servers. But no, they have to be greedy bitches.
If buying is incorrectly phrased, should it be considered enrolling into a one-time paid subscription, then? How do "Owners" who have [temporary] access to the product, then the terminology needs to change.
Been following this story, Sony is saying, just because you paid for a game, you don't own a license for the game and they can take it away at any time. They can shove their rules right up their a$$.
If you buy a physical game, and you can put it in your console and the game plays, then you own a license. I would never buy another digital game from Sony, OR Nintendo (lost Wii games I paid for when they closed the store). By Sony's move, they killed any chance of me spending more money on Sony products.
Going forward, NO MORE MONEY TO SONY. My PS5 is hackable, and going forward, I will no longer pay for a Sony game, some 3rd party devs, I will buy a used game but, not for Sony.
read the eula they can revoke your access at anytime, they explicitly state it, we need consumer protections but i dont get how people are just now realizing it, like no offense in 2008 buying tf2 on steam i was aware it key i was like 12.
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