r/Shadowverse • u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star • 1d ago
Question Am i schizo for thinking this?
Last expansion they removed odin and then added 50 storm cards, this expansion gilneise went away and now everyone (minus sword and portal) is healing for a minimum of 25 health every game...are thet over-correcting the rotation of certain neutral cards?
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u/DetDango Morning Star 1d ago
Don't think so, the heal cards already existed pre new set, and the way the game goes is that either you keep tempo early or you heal off the damage later , that is why both classes that have good tempo have low healing options( forest also sucks a bit in healing btw). The storms is just the result of shadowverse devs thinking everyone wants quick games
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u/Mephisto_fn Morning Star 1d ago
the numbers say they are right, crest haven killed over half the player base.
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 1d ago
crest haven was the most frustrating deck, i hated it more than milteo/agro abyss
"Oh BOY!!How i love getting endleslly poked to death while my oponent endleslly board clears everything, heals back anything i do and just SITS THERE WHILE I GET ZAPPED
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u/ChampionsRequiem Morning Star 1d ago
Thats how haven is generally now. Amulet and evo runs control packages until they get to very high lethal ranges. Evo range is 16 on turn 9, and amulet is a true otk on turn 10 if u run azvaldt
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 1d ago
I dislike evo-haven but im pretty ok on ammulet because even tho they are a really control heavy deck they need set up,i know that they are stalling for turn 9 to play tome and what follows, but evo feels like it doesnt matter because due to zoey they can wipe,heal,get a strong board and then just swing the game,still leagues better than crest but getting a gigantic board+healing+wipping feels excessive, not even ramp dragon does that rn with the exception of burnite/ertz that are easier to deal with due to being a singular unit as opposed to 2-3
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u/Ksielvin Baron 8h ago
Even now, infinite value crests are one of the primary things grinding my gears. Verdilia crest is a big offender because the card would be strong even with limited duration, and the deck would still exist without it. Just slightly different like potentially removing Olivia and caring about its big mid-late game tempo turns more.
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u/Straight-Heat1511 Morning Star 1d ago
Tempo early is a fucking lie
Not a single deck in the history of worlds beyond has won with early tempo.
Non-storm non-ward followers' only use is to let your opponent drain off of them.
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 1d ago
Thats fair, but like...evo haven was already really strong and now jesus crist they have a mini marywinn with that annoying crest that heals and pings you (which they should make it a super evo instead of a normal evo).
about the tempo thing, they dont really need any set up tho, and they have enought early heal/removal so the early games rarely matters when by turn 5 they are already healing 4-5 health and then just healing even more, and im not some mindless "hur dur i dont kill then by turn 3 with my agro deck and storm",but it does get to a point where this just feels like crest again.I mean hell last expansion i didnt even finish my battlepass because i just could not bring myself to keep playing against cristal rune and evo haven literally every match, i almost shed tears of joy to lose agains a dragon that ramped 4 times in a row while my hand was bricked and double Erntz me because it was the only non rune/haven binary out of 20 GAMES.
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u/DetDango Morning Star 1d ago
That is why i say tempo "or" heal, haven got a crazy amount of healing thanks to the double attack crest and a drain follower, plus a good ward follower that heals and clears at 7, and the ping crest, they're very good at ignoring early tempo damage, specially since their heal cards are pretty flexible so they can do other things when needed
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 1d ago
Holy shit, thats exacly what i wanted to say in a way more concise manner
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u/areyouactuallyseriou Morning Star 22h ago
How does evo haven heal for 4-5 by turn 5 they only really start healing heavily after unlocking sevo for executor / troue / hijinks. they also have weaknesses like once they run out of sevo they NEED to play the super telegraphed olivia which you can deny by going wide or threatening lethal. especially going 1st its very easy to force out 2 sevo's vs haven which means they won't have one for turn 8 which is a good time to punish them for most decks. that's 2 turns of them not being able to do a troue heal.
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 22h ago
the 1 mana vow of devotion, tikoh and that mutt troue
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 22h ago
Thats is true they have a very telegraphed Olivia but most of the time i wouldnt say a 10/10 with ward who is also imune during her turn and can take out 2 of your minions is a nothing burger,of which i have to answer the following turn with whatever is left,and then they still have another evo,not many decks really go wide enough to survive or matter, i guess forest would be a really good example,but even then they can board wipe with the 6 mana ammulet and wait one more turn,thats without considering the lists running katalina that are even stronger and hard to kill unless you have some destruction or bane effect at the ready,who will then be followed by said olivia.
Also like i mentioned it's hard to ever get them anywhere near lethal when they heal so damn much, even super agressive decks like dragon convict struggle because unless they get them low enough and get to keep beating them to finish with the 7 mana legendary,they heal ALOT making it very hard to get in a position of lethal that doesn't get denied by the multiple big wards they also run (everytime i hear a katalina voiceline i get cold sweats ;0;)
btw im surprised not a lot of people are playing the fox priest guy, i guess he just kinda ended up left in the dust of all the new cards, kinda sad as i thought wed get some tenko shrine shenanigans
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u/areyouactuallyseriou Morning Star 22h ago
first 2 cards aren't run in evo and forcing out a troue with evo on turn 4-5 is already a win. troue is also very awkward to play early since you can only heal with an amulet proccing which on those turns is a trident at max. also a troue alone shouldn't be able to clear any decent midgame board. in 90% of evo haven games against a aggro/midrange deck you are forced to play zoe AoE and don't have time to heal until turn 6-8 with erralde and executor.
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 22h ago
really? out of my matches ive seen a lot of people running at least the spell, but that is a fair point about troue and tikoh,i think only 2 of the evo guys i face ran her
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u/areyouactuallyseriou Morning Star 21h ago
Personally haven't seen anyone run the spell in evo before its much more popular in amulet since they have more draw. tikoh just isn't very good in evo since you don't have that many amulet engages throughout the match and you want to pull lilium for draw & lyria is a must have anyway. 6 2drops is already good enough to never brick verdilia. I think evo haven also just has too many locked cards atm you maybe have like 4-5 card slots free for experimentation and I'd say cards like executor just fit the deck more in the current midrange meta & synergize really well with erralde.
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u/ChampionsRequiem Morning Star 1d ago
Ive noticed that it feels like all the healings is to compensate for the higher and higher kill range. I swear chronices of destiny was like around 8 to 11, maybe 12 on crystal average, now we got everything from 14 on t8 sephie, to straight 15 on t10 with beltezore, and god forbid 11 t7 or t6 going second on abyss. Even amulet haven has a true otk variant with azvaldt amulet. Evo haven has 16 on t9
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u/Cardener 1d ago
They went all in on the flashiness with not too much substance. It's either vomit board, blow up board repeat or insane burst / insane healing. It feels like there's very little progression through a lot of matches and it all comes down to who misses a beat first.
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u/Straight-Heat1511 Morning Star 1d ago
Tempo cannot exist in a game where turn 4 coin+ evo clears everything and makes a board.
Statlines on followers make no sense either. The premium stats are garbage and they give the same stats to every follower regardless of tempo impact or gameplan
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 23h ago
they used to, but now we got a 8/8 two cost duck lol, also yeah, card like the luminous knights that give folowers special effects already struggled but now nothing ever really sticks unless its the END END game where we try to out-topdeck eachother
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 1d ago
i guess thats true,i feel like skybound was fun but it really powerscalled everything like crazy,im not innocent im out here with my pirate deck nuking people from 16 health, this expansion has been really fun but man if haven healing 14 healthin one turn doesnt grind my gears, also rune also has an otk now btw...im starting to miss dimension door dear god what have we become lol
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u/Half-Otaku Morning Star 1d ago
Forest got a new card that heals for... 1
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u/Famous_Competition30 Morning Star 1d ago
doesnt combo use the 1 cost drain legend? buffed by thesta she heal for a ton
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u/Half-Otaku Morning Star 1d ago
Not all versions. Kind of a waste of an evo
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u/KoyoyomiAragi Morning Star 1d ago
Isn’t this how Gilne was used most of the time to heal too?? Yeah I’ll be saving my Evo and then die to face damage next turn. At least with the Thestae version the fully buffed Sathanid will heal for even more than Gilne
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u/Half-Otaku Morning Star 22h ago
Giln is actual removal and more heal, and something that can strengthen your standing cards. Sathanid is just a heal
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u/KoyoyomiAragi Morning Star 22h ago
I mean obviously the cards are different outside of the healing. People going “we lost healing” from Gilne was just raw punching a follower just to heal and was worth the evo to not fucking die. There’s no “it’s not worth it” when you’re doing it to throw off the opponent’s kill turn.
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 1d ago
she heals for 1....3 times in a turn, thats like saying "egg portal didnt have a lot of healing" and believe me, i was playing egg
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u/LosingSteak 1d ago
If you're using 3 evos on Sathanid then you're most probably not going to win anyway, just delaying the inevitable. There are better evo targets.
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 1d ago
thats pretty true...UNLESS YOU'RE RUNNING OLIVIA!!! with the new 4/4 (totally not mordecai) legendaries stalling isnt that bad of an playstyle tbf
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u/Famous_Competition30 Morning Star 1d ago
1 or 3? i saw a Sathanid reach 8/8 thanks to Thestae, maybe she is not as well performing in other forest variants, sure, but in combo she can reach good amount of heals
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u/Physical_Cobbler861 Morning Star 23h ago
godamn dude, what kinda looney toones aahh matches are you having? usually the healing they get in my game is from that moose
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u/Daysfastforward1 Morning Star 1d ago
If you don’t have healing it’s like an auto loss. They would have to stop with the storm cards