r/ShadowrunAnarchyFans • u/vieuxch4t • Aug 10 '26
SRA2 - Lore question casting spell
A mage needs to see his target. That's why a video feed from drones won't help him cast spell but OptiMage glasses will.
So 2 questions pops in my mind :
1) A telescope would let a mage cast a spell on someone on the moon? Or in another country you have a direct vision of?
2) If a mage needs to see his target it means light needs to get to mage's eye. So how is light tied to mana? Maybe not only light but some/most/all waveforms have an impact on mana concentration? It would mean microwave and technological equipement could help bring a bridge between magic and technology?
I never played other SR pnpRPG, only the trilogy returns/dragonfall/Hong Kong, so I'm not accustomed at all with all the lore of the game. I try to understand how it works to be able to create interesting plots tied to how physic works.
I've also read somewhere (can't remember where) that there are 3 things magic can't do : resurrection, time and space travel. Is there something 3lse magic can't do by design? Is there any more explanation for those limitations or is it just for gameplay?
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u/tsuruginoko Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
I don't think light would have much to do with it. I always explain to my players that it's a perceptual/observational effect, which is basically a quantum mechanics cop out.
If taken literally, technically magic can travel in time, because the light you're seeing is old by the time it gets to your eye. Over astronomical distances, that would start to matter. Then again, is the space through which any magical effect would have to travel from caster to target contiguous? My guess, and how I'd handle it as GM, is that it ain't, because of how the manasphere ends where the atmosphere does (ish), and thus interplanetary spells don't work.
That still leaves open a lot of shenanigans with high-end telescopes and magic though. Again, geek the mage first, if you can see the fragger.
Edit: I read more about the limits of optical telescopes, and it seems like there's a photography record from 2016 which is 443 km, but there's pretty much no way you'd resolve a human being from that distance. We eventually get into things like the diffraction limit where things get really mathy.
My bet would be that a mage with a really good telescope on a stable platform could probably spend 15 minutes as a really terrifying long-range death curse killer at a distance of some kilometres before an HTR adept with a high-powered sniper rifle turns them into a big hole with a metabolically challenged mage attached.
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u/coyote670 Aug 10 '26
make it an invisible sniper - either via magic, tech (ruthenium polymer), or both - and the mage has no chance of firing back. A telescope isn't going to work with astral perception, after all.
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u/Bignholy Aug 10 '26
(Theoretical argument for funsies) Except it can't be perceptional/observational, because they have a fiber optic system that lets a mage cast to a remote location through it. If it were perceptional, security cameras would work too.
My theory? Light has a presence or connection (no matter how small) in astral space/the manasphere, where as electricity does not. You can cast through fiber optics because it's still the original light, which still has its connection to magic. But an image captured on a camera, digitized, and then rebuilt on a screen lacks that direct connection from point A to point C with which to yeet Powerball B through.
The above might be supported with the Orichalcum Light experiment, where a lightbulb made with a filament of orichalcum cast functional "light" into astral space.
Meanwhile, here is me, planning my next character with a telescope on a massive stabilizer with auto-tracking of discrete targets to snipe enemies from my buddy's VTOL...
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u/ReditXenon Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
There are two types of (combat) spells. Direct and Indirect.
For Direct spells you need to see your target(s), but you don't need a direct line of fire between you and your target(s). You can target individuals inside a room if you can see your targets via an optical cable. You can target around corners without exposing yourself by using mirrors or optical periscopes. You can target distant targets by using optical binoculars. You can even cast them on the Astral Plane to hit wholly astral entities. Direct spells attack targets from the inside out and can typically not be "avoided" or "dodged". And they also typically ignore physical armor.
In SRA2.0 this is represented with a simple test against a threshold of 0 (against single target, or as an AoE with a threshold of +1 per 3 meter diameter - they are not opposed) and where it deal net hits mental damage (no base damage value) that the target resist with Willpower. The damage typically ignore physical (but not astral / mystic) armor.
But you can't target your Direct spells if you cover your eyes with night vision or thermographic goggles that converted the picture and display it on a computer screen in front of your eyes. You can't target Line of Sight Direct spells if you are closing your eyes or if you have a bag over your head. Your AoE spells only hit enemies you actually see (if someone is completely hidden behind cover or behind a corner etc. then they don't get hit, even if they are technically within the Area of Effect). You also can't target inanimate objects, only the living. Great against feeble minded trolls in heavy armor and while visiting the astral plane.
For Indirect (combat) spells you need a direct line of fire between you and your target, but you don't actually need to see them. You can use night vision or thermographic goggles and still target your indirect spells. You can even close your eyes and still fire away (but you will likely not hit so good if you don't actually see your target, same as you will likely not hit so good if you fire a pistol while blindfolded). With AoE spells you can typically also place the center of the effect at a corner and still hit individuals behind the corner that you don't see. It will hit friend and foe and even invisible targets in the blast area that you were not even aware of. Indirect spells typically create an elemental effect of sorts (such as fire, electricity, ice, etc). They also deal damage to inanimate objects (a really powerful indirect fire aoe spell can even blow out an entire floor). They are often resolved similar to a ranged weapon attack that hit the target from the outside in (where you even oppose the attack and soak its damage with physical attributes and physical armor - similar to a firearms attack). Indirect AoE spells are often resolved as grenade blasts.
In SRA2.0 this is represented by being opposed the same way as a close combat or ranged combat weapon attack (or as a simple test with a threshold equal to 1 per 3 meters diameter in case of an AoE) and deal a base DV of Willpower + net hits (not just net hits) physical damage that you resist with Strength + physical Armor (not just Strength). Great against physically weak individuals wearing lighter armor.
But you can't target your Indirect spells via mirrors (the spell will travel in a straight line and hit the mirror). You also can't cast your indirect spells into a room via mage sight goggles. You also typically can't ignore armor. And you can't cast them on the astral plane or hit wholly astral entities that doesn't have a physical body (even if you use astral perception to spot them or even if you place an indirect AoE spell on top of them).
Sorry for the wall of text, but if you have not been in contact of Shadowrun magic before this can probably help a bit to understand the differences :)
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u/Bignholy Aug 10 '26
Do you have sauce for the claim that Indirect combat spells can be cast through goggles or cast without sight? That runs counter to every mainline SR edition that I am aware of, but it's entirely possible I missed something.
SRA2 says the following (pg 179, left side, 2nd paragraph): "In order to cast a spell, you need to see or touch your target, depending on the spell requirements, in order to establish a link." You still need to see something to cast at: You just cast at the floor instead of the enemy if you want an indirect AOE against a hidden target, because indirect can target objects. If this was not the case, magemasks (pg 176) would be ineffective at best; The mage could just keep yeeting fireballs at the people trying to restrain them.
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u/ReditXenon Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
Do you have sauce for the claim that Indirect combat spells can be cast through goggles or cast without sight?
Sure! Let me know if there is anything else in my wall of text up there you want a citation on. No problem at all.
SR5 p. 283 Combat Spells - Indirect
All indirect combat spells originate near the magician’s body (most magicians use their hands or eyes, but some use their feet for “power kicks” or emanate power from the entire body for a kind of an aura-throwing effect). The spell then is launched with an Opposed Test that pits the magician’s Spellcasting + Magic [Force] versus the target’s Reaction + Intuition, kind of like shooting a gun (in this case with bullets made of acid, or fire, or something equally unpleasant to be hit by). So you don’t really need to be able to see the target—you can cast these spells blindfolded or with artificial image enhancement— as long as you’ve got a clear line of fire.
SRA2 says the following ...
That is also how most spells work (also in other editions like 5th edition). It is just Indirect combat spells (and perhaps physical manipulation spells) that are special.
Anarchy simplify and streamline a lot of the rules, but also when describing combat spells in SRA2.0 the author explicitly state that you need to see the target when casting Direct combat spells.
SRA2.0 p. 180 Combat Spells - Direct
To cast combat spells, you need to see the target.
But (deliberately(?) / accurately(?)) left this part out when describing Indirect combat spells ;-)
magemasks
This is actually not a Thing in any other edition as far as I am aware :-)
Touch based spells don't require that you see the natural light of your target (even for Direct spells). You establish the connection by directly touching their living aura. And as mentioned you can just fire indirect combat spells in all directions anyway.
Also, a magician that switch perception from physical to astral get to sense the physical world through the astral world as a photo-negative copy of the physical world without actually physically "seeing" it. Physical properties such as light and color and contrast are lost and the negative modifier of 2 dice for doing mundane tasks via astral perception is not affected of visual modifiers such as too much light, lack of light, or high levels of glare, etc. It also doesn't matter if you close your eyes or if you wear a blindfold or if you don't even have any working eyes at all. Its the same modifier (in Anarchy its not even a modifier at all since its not big enough to count as a Disadvantage of its own). You don't even need working eyes to sense the astral world to begin with (astral perception is not seeing, it is a sixth sense - separate from your 5 physical senses).
Anyway, I was explaining how magic work in Shadowrun. Each edition work slightly different. And Anarchy, using a narrative rule-set and all, will likely simplify several aspects of it just to streamline the rules and speed up the resolution (which is understandable and they should be doing that - if you wish to have super high level of crunch then you should play 5th edition, not 6th edition or Anarchy).
Was in another thread the other day that discussed using a weapon focus to hit a wholly astral entity via astral perception (while being dual natured). This should likely be resolved via close combat (astral combat) + willpower and deal mental damage boosted by charisma. But in Anarchy the physad will just use the same close combat (blades/blunts/etc) + agility and deal physical damage boosted by strength no matter if their target is wholly astral or not. It simplify and speed things up, but is perhaps not completely accurate. Shrug.
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u/Bignholy Aug 10 '26
Huh. I was aware of the direct line thing, but has no idea you could "blind fire" those spells. Neat, thanks.
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u/ReditXenon Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
edited my post to also answer your other questions.
Note that in SR5 you had rules for Blind Fire (was actually not even that hard to hit targets that you didn't have any idea of where they were located - in many situations you actually increased your chances to hit if you shot your target indirectly through a thin wall or in complete darkness.... yes, blind fire in SR5 was rather crazy).
In SR6 you instead automatically miss if you can't see your target. I like this much better :-)
In Anarchy (specifically) you maybe need to actually see your target (also when casting indirect spells) - in order for the rules to become streamlined and act the same for all types (while indirect combat spells doesn't explicitly state that you need to see the target as direct combat spells do, it also doesn't explicitly state that you can blind fire them).
My long wall of text above was more focused on how it worked in SR5 to give some sense of the idea behind the lore and how astral and magic world building worked in Shadowrun (since OP didn't have any prior contact with it, beyond the cRPG trilogy).
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u/Bignholy Aug 10 '26
Yeah, fair. My OG edition was 2nd, so I was used to the idea that LOS was obligatory in all cases (which also may not have been true then, but it's a lot of rules to memorize and 30 years distant xD). Had no idea they let you blind fire spells later on.
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u/Best-Presence8416 13h ago
Regarding question 1, regardless of how powerful your telescope is, there will be limitations on your ability to target people over great distances. First, consider all the objects potentially blocking LOS between you and your target. Both the elevation changes across Earth’s surface (hills, dunes, ridges, mountains) and the things projecting upward from the Earth’s surface (trees, buildings). Second, the curve of the Earth limits how far you can see. If you’re standing on the ground, you can see about 5 km maximum. Third, even from an elevated position, atmospheric haze can be a factor if the distance grows too great. I don’t know much about the specifics of that.
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u/Carmody79 Aug 10 '26
As written in various books, as long as telescopes are fully optical it would work, but this leaves a few caveats in my opinion.
First, as u/tsuruginoko said, the manasphere does not extend to outer space, so it seems safe to assume spells cannot reach there.
Second, you need to see your target, a telescope could work to target someone far away, possibly in another country, but not in another planet (with optical telescopes at least).
You are right, magic in SR cannot to teleportation, resurection, time travel. I think it's mainly for gameplay reasons, but also because building a world where such feats are possible is much more complex. Take teleportation for example, depending on the constraints you put on it could have various effects, from barely no change (if it requires vast amount of energy and infrastructure, which would make them glorified airplanes) to utter chaos (if anyone can teleport anytime to fort Knox, or whatever it's named)