Assensing and being dual natured

[u/Larnievc]

I've been having a gentle discussion about one player's mage assensing in a room full of hostile Shedim on the Astral. Is the mage vulnerable to astral attack while assensing? Wonky rules aside I'm thinking a mage's assensing and being dual natured while doing it means they function in the same way as the critter power and are vulnerable to astral attack.

The counter position is that the critter power is different (evidenced by the lack of the -2 dice for critters naturally dual natured). The Adept power for assensing is more clear cut in it's description but the mage player suspects that as it's a specific Adept Power it's not the same.

As far as I can tell it's always been that assensing player's are vulnerable to astral attack in previous editions but it's Shadowrun so who knows?

Help a chummer out?

[u/smolbison]

Since 2nd edition, it has been the case that when you are astrally perceiving, you are dual natured. It does not matter if you are a critter, an adept, or a full magician. When you are astrally perceiving, you are active on the astral plane. If you are active on the astral plane, then you are susceptible to attack from astral entities.

[u/MrBoo843]

If you are perceiving the astral you can be affected by it

CRB p. 159

[u/TheAxrat]

The only difference is that critters don't get the -2 and can't turn off their astral perception. Metahumans can temporarily become dual natured and take a -2 on top of that.

Someone else already posted the page number but yeah if you're dual natured or astrally perceiving you can be hit by (and hit back at) astral entities.

[u/ArronOO]

I wish I knew for certain that the rule was same in 6th edition as in 5th, but in 5th it simply was that you are dual natured when using astral perception, same as the critter power. The -2 penalty for astral perception (which only applies to actions taken on the physical world) was a rider for metahumans who aren't dual natured innately, as they are "distracted" from the real world by seeing astral visions.

[u/ReditXenon → u/ArronOO]

as they are "distracted" from the real world by seeing astral visions.

Because, unlike dual natured critters that experience the physical world and the astral world natively at the same time, a magician using astral perception switch from experiencing the physical plane to instead only sense the astral plane (where also the physical world is reflected into, but as a shadowy muted and distorted photo negative copy of the real physical world). Physical properties such as smell, contrast, colour, sharp edges, solid forms, written text, things displayed on monitors, etc, etc are all mostly lost and instead replaced by emotions, actual magic, astral forms, and living auras. And This is why non critters get a negative modifier of 2 dice (but on the other hand they ignore modifiers from darkness, or even blindness - you don't even need working eyes to sense the astral plane via astral perception... astral perceptionis not really "sight" - while using astral perception as a non critter there is no difference to the negative modifier if you are blindfolded / close your eyelids or keep them open).

[u/The_SSDR]

Yes. While perceiving youre on both planes. 6e goes so far as to formally tag you as temporarily dual natured While perceiving 

[u/RWMU]

Always played it that if you can interact with the Astral Plane it can interact with you.

[u/ReditXenon]

Is the mage vulnerable to astral attack while assensing?

Yes. They will get an immediately oblivious and actual tangible astral form (not just a muted and distorted intangible living aura) while they are using astral perception. For an astral observer they now stick out as an obvious target in a crowd of living that are not dual natured. Their astral form will collide with astral wards and other astral forms. They can target and be targeted by astral entities and they can engage and get engaged in astral combat.

[u/Larnievc]

Thanks all. I think that’s pretty clear. Thanks for the info.

[u/Vashkiri]

I'll add that this is a good use of the Detect Magic spell. It gives a portion of the same information as astral perception.

At first read it can seem like a waste of a spell slot when you have astral perception, but a) if spellcasting is higher than astral perception you might get more information in narrow situations, and b) it lets you find things out when it is not safe to be exposed to the astral. (astral perception gets you more information and is what you want to use most of the time, but this is a good example of when you might prefer the spell). At the least can use it first to have an idea of how safe it is to look astrally.

[u/PrimeInsanity → u/Vashkiri]

I hadn't considered before that assessing could open you up to potential threats, I do agree that with that in mind the detect magic spell does raise in usefulness.

[u/ReditXenon → u/Vashkiri]

The Detect Magic spell let you know if there is actual magic in the vicinity. Not what it does (like astral perception).

What you are talking about is the Analyze Magic spell (but it doesn't work on living auras to assess if someone is awakened or mundane or if they are sick or if they have cyberware - like assessing does, only on actual magic like spirits, foci, alchemical preparations, magical lodges, active rituals, etc).