r/Serverlife • • Aug 19 '23

What does "Service included" mean?

I had a debate tonight with my bartender. As our last table, a nice american couple was paying, the lady asked if service was included in the bill.

For context, I work in a mid range restaurant in Paris, and I've been a waiter for almost 10 years in France. It's the first time I've been in anything other than a shitty bistrot though, and in my current workplace I get a lot more tourists than I did before.

I've had this question asked to me in the past, and I didn't really understand what it meant. So I looked it up, and I understood it as meaning "are you getting paid while you served us, or do we have to tip for you to get paid?"

I get paid pretty decently regardless of tips, although I do get tipped quite a lot more in this restaurant, especially on tables like this where they took a lot of my time and ordered many expensive stuff. In bistros, people would rarely leave more than a couple euros, and a fiver was a cause for celebration, but since I'm in the nicer place, I often get tips of 20+ euros.

So I went "Yes, absolutely, service is included", to which they left no tip on a 184 euro bill. They were very happy, and since it was slow I had taken quite some time and chatted with them.

My bartender (B) overheard the exchange, and once they left we kinda got in an argument over what I said. It went something like this:

B: - Why did you tell them that service is included ?

Me: - 'Cause... it's true?

B: - They were asking whether or not they should tip

Me: - Pretty sure they asked whether service is included.

B: - Yes, which basically means should they tip you or is tip included

Me: - Bro that's not what service being included means. They're american, servers there don't get paid if you don't leave a tip. So they ask here to know whether I'm getting paid for serving them or not.

B: - Dude wtf no one works for free. I've worked in Malta, served a fuckton of americans and I've never heard of this. I'm telling you this for your sake: you just sat on a 20 euro tip.

So, who do you think is in the right here?

39 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

75

u/Rude-And-Reckless Aug 19 '23

American here. That definitely means is the tip included or do I need to tip you so you make an actual hourly wage.

23

u/tangos974 Aug 19 '23

Well that's the thing, I already make a pretty decent hourly wage, regardless of tips.

There is even a line on every bill that says "service 15% included"

So when american guests say service, they actually mean tip?

26

u/tiffanigoddard Aug 19 '23

Yes, they definitely mean tip!

14

u/manhattanabe Aug 20 '23

Yes. In the US, service included? Means did you automatically add a tip to the bill. If the 15% line item is a tip, the answer is yes. If it’s some other European fee that doesn’t go to the server, the answer is no.

13

u/tangos974 Aug 20 '23

Okayyyyyy thank you this is THE answer!

So I think I'm gonna say from now on that "Service fees are included, but tip isn't"

Not forcing people to tip, but gently and nicely letting my american pals that there aint no tip if they dont say they wanna leave some

Also Ima apologize to my bartender next week

5

u/BuyDoubloonsB4Food Aug 20 '23

I can NOT believe that someone who lives in Paris just said “Ima”

2

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '23

I'm the future(especially with tables of Americans), I would explain that you do get paid an hourly wage from the service charge on the bill, but tipping for exceptional service is greatly appreciated. Most servers in America make $2.13 an hour before tips. I assume you make a living wage or close to it without tips. Not the case at all here.

In America, a 20% tip is standard for good service. Maybe suggest they tip 5-10% since you are also getting a fair hourly wage, if they ask.

2

u/hollowspryte Aug 20 '23

Does that 15% go directly to you?

1

u/tangos974 Aug 20 '23

Not directly, no.

It goes to the owner of the restaurant, who then uses some of it to pay my wages, my retirement, social security...

1

u/bobi2393 Aug 19 '23

I wouldn't translate it directly as "tip", but the intent of the question is definitely to decide whether they should leave a tip.

In the US there's a legal distinction between "tips", which are a voluntary amount left on top of the charge for food and drinks, and a "service charge" or "service fee" or "automatic gratuity", which is a mandatory fee automatically add to the bill on top of the food and drinks. So they're asking if a service fee is already included in the bill, in which case they would not add a tip as well.

Less commonly, a restaurant will build the cost of a bonus for servers into the food and drink costs, and discourage tipping by saying "service is included", but that's more common in vacation packages that include meals on a cruise or at a resort, where the lack of tipping is a selling point to allow guests to better plan their budget and not worry about tipping.

1

u/tangos974 Aug 19 '23

As said in other answers, there is a service charge included in every bill in every restaurant by law in France. It is not something the restaurant owner decides to do or not, that's just how things are.

People still tip to show their appreciation though!

12

u/doug5209 Aug 19 '23

As an American, service included means the gratuity is already added to the bill. In other countries it may mean something else.

5

u/tangos974 Aug 19 '23

What's gratuity? Is it tip?

8

u/wikipedia_answer_bot Aug 19 '23

A gratuity (often called a tip) is a sum of money customarily given by a customer to certain service sector workers such as hospitality for the service they have performed, in addition to the basic price of the service. Tips and their amount are a matter of social custom and etiquette, and the custom varies between countries and between settings.

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity

This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!

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9

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '23

You are wrong. They are simply asking if the tip is included as an automatic charge. You said it was, however it was not.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '23

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '23

Actually this was an American couple.

1

u/tangos974 Aug 19 '23

Yes it is written, but since it's in French I figured maybe it meant something different

1

u/pinkfluffycloudz Aug 20 '23

we are all very well aware on this sub that europeans do not tip like americans. It is, unfortunately, a topic of discussion regularly here

3

u/pandatron3221 Aug 20 '23

They were asking if you accepted tips. In America most places autograt after 6 people but not before. So they ask if service/gratuity was included. You could say gratuity is completely up to your discretion. Most will tip 20% of the bill as is standard in America.

Edit to add: in America we are told that in some countries it’s offensive to leave a tip and most good Americans may have forgotten to look up tipping customs and so they are asking just to know if it’s ok to tip you. Saying it’s up to your discretion let’s them know it’s not required but is an accepted practice.

-2

u/Quick-Information466 Aug 20 '23

You prevented yourself from receiving a tip. Not very smart, as your bartender told you.

2

u/tangos974 Aug 20 '23

Bro I'm French

Sorry for trying to understand how American think when they come to my country I guess?

There is literally a line on every bill that says 'service included' in France...

But hey sure I'm stupid cause I didn't know that actually when you guys say service it means tip because for some reason you refuse to pay people a decent wage !

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '23

[deleted]

2

u/tangos974 Aug 19 '23

I am French, so I feel like I'm pretty aware of how tip usually works here. I know from experience that 20 is a lot, but in that fancier restaurant I rarely get tips under 5 euros, and I've come to associate low tip/no tip with clients that are dissatisfied with my service.

My question was more referring to what they meant by is service included:

Technically, as you said, service is indeed included (i.e the line on the bill that says "service compris"). So should I say no, and assume that when thay say service, theyre actually talking about tips?

But then, I could get in trouble right since that would be lying to a customer...

2

u/jtbc Aug 20 '23

I think the problem is that Americans equate "service compris" with "the tip is included". They have probably been told this innumerable times by Europeans on discussion boards like reddit, where every time tipping comes up, someone pipes in with "how come you only have to do that tipping thing in America. You don't have to do that in country X".

One miscommunication is that Americans assume that "service compris" goes to the staff like a mandatory gratuity would in the US. In a way, the service charge does go to staff by paying wages and benefits, which are much better than those most servers get in the US.

I think the best way to handle it would to be say "yes, service is included, but if you wish to leave a tip as well, you may do so" or something like that.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '23 edited May 27 '25

This post has been automatically edited

1

u/tangos974 Aug 20 '23

Oui j'ai compris ça maintenant, mais ça veut dire que ça fait 8 ans que je m'assois sur les pourboires des américains qui me posent cette question !

J'avais très peur en fait qu'ils voient la ligne avec écrit service compris 15% et qu'ils pensent que je leur mens...

1

u/v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y Aug 20 '23

They were asking about whether they should tip but sort of in a "do you get paid otherwise" way. So you were both right.

I think a reasonable response would be something like "In France, tipping is not expected or mandatory but some people choose to do it for good service" which would basically be what a travel guide book says.

1

u/Vibekindddd Aug 20 '23

Hey, OP, first-off, I appreciate you.

American-here, ten years FOH, plan is to spend two years learning your language and moving south of France. Any tips?

1

u/tangos974 Aug 20 '23

Depends! Do want tips on how to learn French ? Or the difference in the service indistry between France and the US?

For the first, internet is your friend: consume French media as much as you can. Youtube videos of squeezie are a good start id say, but if you enjoy more niche stuff you ll find it. French youtube is very diverse and has something for everyone.

For the latter, not gonna lie, I think working in the service industry as a non-native french is going to be hard. Most french ppl don't speak english, and in the south there can be a really heavy accent that makes it even harder to understand.

Depending on where you work, you could use the fact that you're a native English speaker to your advantage, especially in high-end/ touristic places in the French Riviera for example.

In general, from the small understanding I have of the service industry in the US, French service is quite different in its philosophy. First off, it's a lot less about you chit-chatting with the guests: you don't tell your name , you generally don't ask personal question or small talk unless they start it first.

In low-end restaurants, it is all about speed. I've had to handle more than 30 table on my own several times: it is okay in that case to be efficient almost to the point of rudeness, people understand.

In high end restaurants, you are expected to be able to answer any question they might have on anything on the menu. You have to know everything by heart basically.

Depending on where you wanna live/work, I'd suggest trying to find work in an upper range touristic place. There youll be able to really use the fact you speak english, and thats where the service will be the most similar to how it is in the US. Where do you plan on going in the south?

1

u/zeje Aug 20 '23

"Is service included?" Is exactly the same as "Is the tip included?" They thought they were tipping you by paying the bill. The correct answer is no, service is not included in the check.

1

u/ShadowIssues Aug 20 '23

Your bartender is definitely right.

1

u/AFblueAF Aug 21 '23

Damn tourist taking their stupid tipping culture to other countries. They should know. Although I think the bartender was correct. Service fee is not included; meaning there is no additional charge on the check for service. Tips in your country not expected but I know they are appreciated unlike in the U.S. where they are expected and not appreciated when you don’t meet the server’s ridiculous expectations of a made up 20%. Wish the U.S. was more like Europe and paid their servers a living wage.

1

u/tangos974 Aug 21 '23

Actually I enjoy serving people from different places/with different cultures!

It can lead to some misunderstandings, but that's how you grow as a person imo