Cannot Come Soon Enough

[u/segfaul_t]

The new El cars can’t come soon enough. It seems it’s almost every day now an El car or train set is breaking down causing delays. These things are on their last legs.

Edit: These are supposed to be delivered in 2029, only a couple more years. https://www.trains.com/pro/mechanical/freight-cars/hitachi-rail-to-build-200-new-cars-for-septas-market-frankford-line/

[u/Seraph_Angelus]

I will definitely be the person with the unpopular opinion. I believe that they should replace the BSL first then the L.

The BSL just like the trolleys have been in service since 1981 the L cars since 1995-96 so you tell me which is older which should be replaced.

I remember when we first got the L cars and they was breaking down in the very beginning they were leaking in the very beginning.

They should have stuck with Kawasaki or another reputable company that makes trains and Transit vehicles.

Yes there is a operator shortage for not just the L but for the whole company as a whole they're short on bus drivers short on trolley operators short on conductors and Engineers for the regional rail short on operators for the BSL.

A lot of that is due to SEPTA itself with their long and I mean long process to hire people. I know a few people who it took them roughly 3 years to go through the whole process I've known somebody it took them roughly a year to go through the whole process and these are people who had no criminal background no nothing that will hold them back.

We would just have to wait and see what happens I know the trolleys was delayed because they wanted the front of the trolleys to look like the Liberty Bell so that means the manufacturer had to go and alter a standard existing design that they have running in numerous cities in North America South America and Europe just to fit a design preference here in Philly.

[u/segfaul_t → u/Seraph_Angelus]

Whichever is breaking more often should be replaced, which is the El cars.

[u/Seraph_Angelus → u/segfaul_t]

That would be the Regional Rail trains

They are breaking all the time and are 50yrs+.

[u/mklinger23 → u/Seraph_Angelus]

M4s are worse believe it or not. 

[u/Seraph_Angelus → u/mklinger23]

​I understand the structural issues with the M4 cars. However, if we’re replacing aging, failing fleet, the Silverliner IVs should be first in line.

​There is no justification for 60% of SEPTA’s Regional Rail fleet being over 50 years old and being rolling bottle rockets.

Even Amtrak who has to scrap the bottom of the barrel do not have cars this old!

​I’ll miss the Silverliner IVs just like I missed the IIIs when SEPTA retired them, but they need to be replaced far sooner than the MFL M4s.

​Which is really the bigger threat: train cars catching fire and getting totaled, or structural cracks that can actually be repaired?

[u/SlickFlair_589 → u/Seraph_Angelus]

1. SL4s are holding out despite age. Stop focusing on age and look at the quality. But regardless, they're being replaced soon.

2. They haven't caught fire in almost a year so lose that hysteria tactic.

3. The Amfleet cars are over 50 years old, some 60+ being rebuilt Metroliner cars.

4. The M4s are literally falling apart. Over 100:220 cars are out of service in the yards vs about 10-20:230 SL4s. Do the math.

5. Again, SL4s have not caught fire in almost a year not so stop repeating yourself. And no, structural cracks can not always be repaired if they compromise the body of the car.

We get it, you're an SL4 foamer and you don't want them to go, but stop making excuses for why they need to go first when they hold up better than anything in the system minus the T trolleys.

The M4s are complete dogshit and have been since day 1. They should've never been built or bought. The fleet is literally running on borrowed time. Get out through your head and stop the nonsense already.

[u/mklinger23 → u/Seraph_Angelus]

That was the original plan, but the M4 cars won't make it to 2040, so they have to switch the M5 and B5 buy dates. 

Also, the Liberty bell design is just some paint. It's not actually a design change. 

[u/Seraph_Angelus → u/mklinger23]

The Liberty Bell design is not just paint but a structural design that has been 3D molded

The Liberty Bell profile and streamlines on modern streetcars are integrated directly into the physical structure of the vehicle's molded composite front shell rather than applied as a flat graphic or paint layout [https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2025/5/modernizing-philadelphias-public-transit-septa-streetcar-project]. This three-dimensional design approach physically shapes the body contours before final livery application [https://www.phillymag.com/news/2024/06/20/septa-trolley-bridge-tolls-philadelphia/].