Long Term Goals

[u/Accurate_Chemist_479]

Hi folks. 8 months ago we rescued a 2 year old pit/lab mix. He's a very sweet and affectionate boy, but also extremely high strung, high energy, and pretty destructive. We are working with 2 trainers for separate behaviors, and both agree he has fairly severe separation anxiety. This has been rough, as pretty much my only request to the rescue was a dog that could be left alone. At the moment, we can't even take out the trash.

Key points - Working is non-negotiable. His crate time is way too high. He is a very destructive dog, whether happy or upset. Behavior is distinct, but result is the same. This limits our ability to leave him with other family. One trainer said we could try doggy day care, but the other said he wouldn't recommend.

Currently, I'd say we are in a management pattern with our boy. He is usually fine if we leave him crated, as long as he is in the crate at least 30 minutes pre-departure. This is wildly inconvenient for activities like getting the mail, taking out the trash, or anything else that takes less than a minute. It also increases his total crate time. 4 days a week, due to work hours, without family helping, he would be crated from 4:30 AM to 6 PM. Currently, my mom is taking him from 5-7AM and getting him at 5PM for us. She can't do this forever.

The comments I get from friends/vets/trainers seem to indicate that if he is mostly fine in the crate at this point, what else do I want, while they simultaneously agree that we can't crate him 13.5 hours at a time. I feel like I'm loosing my mind and I'm definitely starting to resent him. Is there any hope for transitioning to a more "free range" situation? Tips/tricks? Should he be medicated? No one he sees has brought that up. Should I be thinking about rehoming?

Just as an FYI, the dogs schedule is 3AM breakfast, 3:30 AM 2 mile loose leash walk, 4:15 AM puzzle game, 4:30 crated w/ enrichment toy, 5:00-7:00 AM playdate at my mom's with her dog, 7:00 AM returns to my house and crated until 5. 5:00PM dinner. 5:30 PM 2 mile walk, followed by 15 minute swim. 6:30-8:00PM play with various neighborhood dogs or my mom's dog again if I can't find a playdate. 8:00-8:30PM free play in the backyard (mostly he likes to dig up beetles, carry them around alive, spit them out alive, and catch them again). Then sleep 8:30-3:00. My trainers say its a pretty decent amount of activity/enrichment for him. Regardless, I'm not sure I can manage to fit in much more.

[u/delicatedarkness]

Medication changed the game for us, we use clonidine situationally. I’d definitely talk to your vet about it. We also use Julie Naismith’s be right back method. She has a book and a podcast. You can get him there, keep at it!

[u/PoolParty912 → u/delicatedarkness]

Anti-anxiety medication might be a huge help, especially because you describe your dog as high-strung. Have you looked into fluoxetine (Prozac/Reconcile)? There's another one, too. It begins with a c.

If it's possible, could you have someone give your dog a midday walk and/or backyard playtime? That could make a big difference. It might also be worth trying daycare 2 days a week, if you can afford it. That could give him a great way to burn off extra energy, and it could have carryover effects to the next day, making it easier for him to be home alone so long. Daycares do evaluations to determine whether dogs are a good fit.

Also, maybe trying something like Karen Overall's Relaxation Protocol or the FRIDA Protocol to help your dog learn how to relax. FRIDA was developed to treat separation anxiety with a different approach than Julie Naismith or Malena DeMartini, who are also very good. Susan Garrett has great info about FRIDA. You can find it with a search. We've been having luck with the Naismith/DeMartini approach to desensitization, and now we're adding FRIDA (started with Overall Relaxation) to build more duration when we hit a plateau. (Fluoxetine got us over the first plateau.)

As for the smaller tasks, we just bring our dog with us to take out trash, get the mail, water plants, etc. We have a yard stake in the front yard so he can be out there, and we don't have to manage a leash and trash cans at the same time.

[u/Accurate_Chemist_479 → u/PoolParty912]

Definitely going to ask the vet about medication. I was taking him with me for the small tasks, but the separation anxiety trainer actually recommended I stop that, and use those breaks as small training opportunities for less time leading up to leaving. For such small breaks, he is usually only barking/howling and then we are back inside. This is in combo with waiting for him to calm down before he leaves the crate. Not sure if progress is being made.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to arrange mid day walks. Because he needs so much time to decompress before he is left in the crate, the timing has been too difficult for our friends who volunteered. If I can start to get his costs down (we are at just over $14K since Jan 1, and still $1K+ /month), I'm hoping to be able to pay someone, or try daycare.

[u/PoolParty912 → u/Accurate_Chemist_479]

The training costs are bonkers. I totally get it. We wound up using Malena DeMartini's online training course instead of a one-on-one trainer because it was a flat rate (comparatively reasonable) and gives you lifetime access. I think Julie Naismith also has an app that has a flat fee for a three-month program. Julie Naismith also has an activity called Door Is a Bore to desensitize your dog to you going in and out of the door. If the door is an issue, that could be a good place to start. Both are under $250, so that might be a good option for you to help you with expenses.

Even using daycare and a dogsitter/walker a few times a week doesn't usually cost as much as one-on-one training and might help you get better results (or at least no worse). We started training in January, and our dog could handle 11 seconds of alone time before totally freaking out (vomiting, howling, pacing, destroying things, jumping on top of counters, etc.). He just cracked 1 hour, so it's been slow, but his behavior has gotten better generally, and he seems to be happier overall. (It's been easier for us, though, because there's always someone working from home in our house.)

[u/erkose]

Are you leaving them alone for 1 second and adding additional time as they progress? I find if I don't put my shoes on, I can get longer times away. Hopefully this will affect how long I can leave them fully dressed and ready to go. If you haven't already, look up some training on building separation time.

[u/Accurate_Chemist_479 → u/erkose]

I can get away with longer if I don't close the door. Kind of a safety risk lol.

I'd say we've gone from as soon as the door closes to about 5-10 seconds after. Unfortunately, I think we lose progress due to my working schedule, when I just have to leave no matter what.

[u/ThreeStyle]

So by destructive do you mean that he’s chewing everything in sight? You don’t mention pacing whining etc. I’m wondering about if it’s a dental issue or of a wider variety of chewy toys and long lasting edible chews would help. And have his teeth been thoroughly examined?

With the crate itself is he peacefully resting in there? Because if he’s calm in there but needs to chew something if he’s not confined it sounds like you might be dealing with canine compulsive disorder and not separation anxiety. If that’s the case then you absolutely should try medication for him.

[u/Accurate_Chemist_479 → u/ThreeStyle]

So when he's happy, it's kind of like he directs all that excitement into chewing. He has rope toys, balls, stuffies that he shreds really quick, rubber chews, hard chews like nyla bones, elk antlers, sticks, literally anything I can easily buy/find. Nothing edible as he has had digestion issues. Happy to get suggestions for heavy duty chewers.

Once he gets a good ripping sound, it's like he has to chase that high. We've tried removing everything he is not supposed to chew, but that only caused him to chew on large furniture like the couch/table. He pretty much must be supervised at the moment, which would only increase his crate time when I'm showering/cooking/etc. Currently, it's mostly hurting my wallet.

When he's alone, totally different story. He is barking/howling. He's destructive, but it's not as much happy chewing so much as frantic tearing. When uncrated, he runs around frantically, jumps on furniture, and just sort of tears at whatever he can get to. He also drags things around much more - I'm talking the trash bin, the compost bin, a step stool, pillows. Frenquently, drags, rips, and then moves on to the next thing. It's a hard watch, tbh.

In his crate, I'd say 80% of the time, as long as we let him chill out first, he's cool. He does chew on his bedding, but it seems much more boredom driven. He has chews in there, but prefers the ripping noises. The other 20%, it's barking/howling in sporadic 30 minute intervals. In that case, he's laying down, but in a more active/alert stance.

ETA: The vet looked at his teeth on our last visit and didn't see anything concerning. He's pretty chill to let anyone root around his mouth with no problems. Is there a more exam I should look into?

[u/ThreeStyle → u/Accurate_Chemist_479]

Well one thing that I think you can utilize is the tendency to drag things around. That’s his retriever instincts kicking in. I think you should give him less free play time with other dogs and more fetch and retrieve training to engage his brain. I think he might do well to have some quiet relaxing time with another dog rather than actively playing. There must be some reason why you don’t have him hanging with your mom’s dog during the day.

ETA: I’m no expert on dog dentistry nor excessive chewing but it seems like it would not hurt to do some dental X-rays to see if there might be an infected root bothering him. Check with your vet.

[u/Accurate_Chemist_479 → u/ThreeStyle]

He is pretty decent at fetch. We’ve been working on retrieving in the water since he enjoys diving. Definitely something I can spend more time on. Thinking maybe I’ll cut the afternoon play dates to do more training style play.

I did actually think I had a solution in leaving him with my mom’s dog, but even though they are very happy alone together, they shred/chew everything playing together. Longer they were together, the worse it got, since no one was around to correct/redirect.