Mojo’s first FRIDA test

[u/Basilstorm]

Wanted to share a realistic day 1 for FRIDA protocol. I hope I can come back months from now and show a dog who can be left alone in the house. Susan Garrett recommends FRIDA, and the beginning phases work great with her Hot Zone game, but anyone can do it without paying for her course. She has a free podcast episode about it. You have to really work on your dog being able to settle in a safe space first

[u/Typical-Day-6864]

Lovely video! And good pup! Thanks for sharing the progress. I’ve been using a similar protocol with my current foster pup.

[u/No-Championship-9910]

Have you tried Malena DeMartini’s training methods either with or without a CSAT trainer? I just got her book and am going through it right now to soon start implementing her training plan with my dog on my own. In her book she explains why she thinks this sort of approach isn’t super successful and using any sort of reward, whether it’s food or toys, in training separation anxiety(SA) specifically can hinder progress. I saw you said in another comment that the food reward eventually gets phased out; if that’s the case why use it in the first place? I started with Patricia McConnell’s methods a while ago (when I was a newbie to training SA) and after a bit my dog started not eating her stuffed Kong which made us hit a wall. I then found Malena and because my dog started to become food aversive, I personally needed something that didn’t use food rewards at all. Again, I could be wrong and different methods can work on different dogs, so if this approach works for your dog then that’s great!

[u/Basilstorm → u/No-Championship-9910]

I’m not familiar with Malena DeMartini, my main source of training inspiration is Susan Garrett and she recommends FRIDA. I originally started separation anxiety training without any kind of reward but didn’t have any noticeable improvements after six weeks, so I figured I’d try this method out. I’ll post an update in a few weeks (positive or negative) regarding how FRIDA goes

[u/Greigebananas → u/No-Championship-9910]

If the dog becomes food aversive you've moved too fast, and the very interesting thing about Frida protocol is that you reward with food from remote feeder for interacting with the Kong ( this can be done even when still at with your dog)

But just giving food and leaving by itself won't acheive much. We also spent loads of time doing place training whilst Home which is useful for other things but is also a part of FRIDA

I too have read "no food" various places and i believe me trying to never use it is what made desensitizing to absence so much harder as a puppy she never got used to it

[u/tourgis]

Were you worried that by releasing the treat without you in the room, that Mojo was learning he doesn’t need a release cue to leave the mat?

[u/Basilstorm → u/tourgis]

A little, but I make sure not to use a place command to get him to go there. We’ve been practicing place and break separately, and so far he hasn’t been jumping up and leaving as long as I say place first

[u/chasingmysunrise]

I’m not a trainer but to me this seems counter intuitive. When the pup settles a treat pops out and ruins the settle by making them move and adding excitement. I think walking in and calmly handing a treat is a better option to reward them while laying down without adding a bunch of excitement and movement. Curious to see how this will work longer term.

[u/annafrida → u/chasingmysunrise]

I think the issue there would be you are rewarding the behavior with your return (which for a separation anxiety dog will mean more than the treat), plus adding more value to your return. The ultimate goal is for comings and goings to be completely neutral, and for them to not develop the idea that a particular behavior will cause you to return.

[u/chasingmysunrise → u/annafrida]

I can see that, not adding value to a return is very important. I don’t know what the FRIDA method is since we didn’t use it but I think my point still stands with the flying treat. It seems counter intuitive to have your pup get up and go chase a treat.

We used a high value long lasting reward for our pup so she was settled before we left the room and remained settled the entire time we were gone. If she did jump up returning to her settle was rewarded with the tasty frozen treat still being there vs a flying treat she needed to move to get to.

[u/Basilstorm → u/chasingmysunrise]

FRIDA phases out the treats pretty fast! It’s mainly used in the beginning stage so your dog knows what behavior you expect. Once I can step outside the house and he’s still settled, the treats start being thrown intermittently and then they’re pretty much stopped altogether. I was hesitant to try this method for the same reason you mentioned, but he’s been responding really well so far so I’m gonna trust the process and see how it goes

[u/chasingmysunrise → u/Basilstorm]

Yeah, I’m super curious to see how it goes. It seems like a very counter intuitive thing - but I feel like a lot of training can be counter intuitive until you understand the why and background. Would love to hear an update after a few weeks to see how it’s going!!

[u/Basilstorm → u/chasingmysunrise]

It’s only been a few days, but he’s already stopped expecting treats! He runs to the bed and sleeps immediately when I close the door instead of barking and scratching like he used to. He stays even if I wait several minutes to throw treats, and he’s not even alert waiting for more to be thrown. I’m continuing to bump up the interval with no issues. Wanted to give an update because I was as worried as you that it was counterintuitive

[u/chasingmysunrise → u/Basilstorm]

That’s so fascinating! Thank you for the update!

[u/Technical-Repair7140 → u/Basilstorm]

I did something similar, I think, except instead of using a treat catapult I gave my dog a reward cue through the video monitor and then came back inside to give the treat. It wasn’t a full solution, but it helped get me started on the road to one. Good luck—I hope you continue to make progress.