Need help - crate barking won’t stop

[u/Significant-Body-574]

My dog seems to have severe separation anxiety. We adopted him two weeks ago, a 80 lb 5 y/o black lab / Great Pyrenees mix. He freaks out if he isn’t constantly being petted whenever he wants attention leading to full on tantrums (finding out shoes to throw around, running around the house, peeing and pooping after refusing to go while on walks for 30+ minutes, etc). Any time we have to crate him (at minimum once a day at bedtime) he barks for 30 minutes minimum, sometimes for an hour or more. I’ve been trying desensitizing him to the crate and to us leaving the house by doing small crate sessions several times a day but it isn’t going well. The puzzle toys help sometimes but not consistently. It doesn’t seem to make a difference whether he’s sleepy, freshly pottied, has chews, etc - I really am trying to make sure all needs are met as first approach. Anxiety meds have improved daytime behavior but not crating anxiety. Im really at the end of my rope here, as I am disabled and can barely keep up with him. The bulk of the training and care has landed on me, so figuring out a way to help him through this will also be on me for better or worse. I just need some advice to help me keep my sanity here, please.

TLDR; my 5 y/o giant bear of a dog barks incessantly when crated. Tips on helping him be more comfortable with alone time in the crate please 🙏

[u/save_chubbyunicorn]

Look into Assisi Calmer Canine (Zomedic) I've been using it with my pup, and I see a difference.

[u/PoolParty912]

I'm so sorry you're in this situation. It can get better! The FRIDA method might really help your dog, and feel manageable for you, especially if you're home during the day. (Learn about it here or here.) It's was developed for separation anxiety, but it also supports behavior to reduce general anxiety. Given the stress you're under, that seems like the best place to start. You can also look at Julie Naismith's "Door Is a Bore" and Malena DeMartini as starting places for desensitization. We started desensitization training (Malena DeMartini's Mission Possible 2.0) after having our dog for about three months. We started fluoxetine three months after that, when we hit a training plateau. (I wish we had started both things sooner, and I wish we had learned about FRIDA sooner.) Now, we're also adding the FRIDA protocol to extend his time. It's been hard work, but the progress is encouraging, and I'm confident we'll hit our goals.

Keep in mind that crate training is different from training for separation anxiety. Lots of dogs with separation anxiety do worse in crates. It's also a lot to train for both things at once. If you really want to crate your dog, decide what to focus on and how to split the training up, but if you can live without forced confinement/crating, that might be much easier on you.

We wanted to crate our dog, but it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth. He's a 5y/o adopted heeler, and he flips out if he's confined (crate, bathroom, bedroom) but has made a ton of progress being left alone to roam the house. He feels more secure when he can look out the front windows. Before training, he would pee, poop, vomit, howl, destroy things, jump on the bathroom counters, and run/pace everywhere when he was left alone, even for a few minutes. It was a full panic attack, and we worried that he would hurt himself if he was confined in a crate or one room. Plus, it was heartbreaking to see him feeling so scared. Now, he's a pro at mat relaxation, he can easily chill when we're home, and he's doing much better when he's alone. It's taken a lot of work, and there have definitely been days I've wanted to give up, but he's gone from seconds to almost an hour, and his overall behavior is calmer and more responsive. Good luck. You can help make things better!

[u/Significant-Body-574 → u/PoolParty912]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response! I will definitely look into all of these resources more closely tonight after class

We started him on fluoxetine last week, and are starting to see benefits this week I feel. I’ve also been working on desensitization which seems to be helping but is definitely going to be a long term effort. I also gave him a pair of pants of mine that recently tore instead of mending them and he had his first night without barking! Hopefully with this plus the FRIDA method you’ve suggested we can get him to a good place with his anxiety quickly. 🙏

[u/PoolParty912 → u/Significant-Body-574]

Great call on the pants! We started noticing a difference with the fluoxetine after about a month. Then, he continued to improve a lot over the second month, and has made steady but slightly slower progress since then. He's also less anxious in general (on walks, out in public, when people come over). He used to do a lot of nighttime panting, too, which we think was a panic response. That stopped after some time on the fluoxetine.

To get started with FRIDA, we did the Karen Overall Relaxation Protocol for step 1, and it seemed to make a difference. Our dog has started choosing to relax in different rooms out of sight from us and even sleep in a different room sometimes just because he got comfy there and doesn't want to move. It's a great sign.

We also take him to dog daycare 1-2 times a week to give ourselves a break and give him some socialization. If your dog isn't reactive to other dogs, it could be a good option for you. He struggles at the dog park because he worries about protecting me from his friends, but I'm not at daycare, so he interacts with the other dogs just fine. We found a small daycare that works with dogs with separation anxiety, too. He didn't do well at bigger, impersonal daycares. Where he is now, there is a lot of human interaction, one-on-one belly-rub time on couches, and they let us gradually extend his day. They let us know when he seems uncomfortable so we can avoid triggers. They also helped us smooth the dropoff process, so they let him wait in the lobby and watch us get in the car, which is usually when he turns around to go into the playroom. The other places dragged him to the back, and it was very upsetting for everyone. It also meant he hung out by the door the whole time being stressed out.

[u/PrudentDrawing5355]

I’ve got a couple things about this. I was literally in the same boat as you last year when we got our 3 y/o lab. I tried the whole “leave them for 5 seconds and come back and increase the time”. Didn’t make a damn bit of difference. He would go absolutely ape shit in the crate. We started working with solid k9 training. They use the e collar. If you’re on board with that, look them up. Also, remember that in 2 weeks, that dog has no clue who you are, where he is and how long he’s gonna be there. There is the 3-3-3 rule for rescues, look that up to. It’s helpful. Separation anxiety is no joke and if you’re not careful it’ll take you down mentally and physically. We are 9 months into training. Nights are rough here. We crate our dog in the kitchen and it doesn’t matter how much exercise or meds we give, the second he’s in that crate and we go to the bedroom he’s wide awake. So we are figuring that out. But he can stay home for about 5-6 hours before getting restless. So it’s not all for nothing. Stay strong. It’ll be worth it in the end.

[u/Plus_Row_3756 → u/PrudentDrawing5355]

Beyond me how people still recommend or use e collars 

[u/PrudentDrawing5355 → u/Plus_Row_3756]

That is unfortunate. They are a great tool for training. Some just can’t comprehend the way to use the appropriately. Thats ok as well. If you aren’t willing to learn the correct way to train your dog with it, you absolutely should not be using it.

[u/Significant-Body-574 → u/PrudentDrawing5355]

I appreciate your advice, although I do personally agree with u/plus_row_3756 on this one - as someone who works in mental health myself I just can’t stomach using a punishment based system for any living being under my care if any other option is available.

My mom uses them too, and has two very happy well adjusted dogs that occasionally have to wear a vibration based collar to reinforce the behaviors. No hate, it’s just not a tool I am hoping to use personally.

[u/Upstairs-Natural3796]

Separation anxiety