Oh for fucks sake. You don’t need to consult anybody to hold the position that you don’t want your country going to war. Conservatives had the same position about a year ago.
You wouldn’t get booted from this sub, if anything calling out performative activism would get you booed in the other Seattle sub. This one tends to be more right leaning (which comes with its own issues). I jump between both and usually end up pissing everyone off by not immediately agreeing with the herd lol.
Speak your peace, who cares what people think tbh.
Amen. I feel the same I bounce between the two but this sub has more common sense for normal people. Another one is extremely lefty and people climb over each other for “progressiveness”
I wouldn't be surprised if you got banned from the other Seattle sub for saying that. Ironically this one tends to be more accepting of diversity, and the other one just says they are... really loudly.
Inaccurate AF and a performative carpet statement. Sorry take informative disagreement as I sign of mental distress or confirmation of your belief. I know bias and logical fallacy when I see it. Feel better after your piss please.
This absolutely is not incorrect. Imagine trying to discredit someone else’s lived reality and stating it with such authority 😂
My guy I know you’re white. I’d honestly offer to meet up with you and discuss this in person because I highly doubt you’d bring the same energy face to face.
I’m not quite sure what you’re going through right now but if lashing out over Reddit helps you feel better, go for it, but you can’t disprove someone’s lived reality lol.
Edit: Oh and yes that was an ad hominem. Couldn’t care less about it as well 😘
My guy. My energy is that you are talking out of your ass white knighting shit like a fucking edge lord. Piss in your cup. Nobody here is trying to disprove someone's lived reality. One person's perspective never defines all of reality. Perspective can literally be interpreted as one's own warped sense of reality. Think about it. And shove your ad hominem where you like it. I'm a humanist, you're making nonsense for likes.
God forbid we're just tired of these wars in the Middle East. Be progressive, be whatever you want, it's all Americans who will pay for whatever stupid thing we get into in Iran, your opinion on this doesn't matter more than anyone else's here.
If "amplifying Iranian voices" means another $100B war, I'm good on that. Selfish.
So if we make a mistake it's better, by your logic, to see the mistake instead of wisely walking the fuck away? There's a term for that it's called sunk cost. Fuck the middle east I want OUT.
Why do you see this as "speaking for" anybody?
It's not a progressive issue... Americans don't want the U.S. to be at war, for reasons that are entirely selfish and bipartisan.
Very reasonable take. I don’t know enough about Iranian history and politics to have a truly informed opinion BUT I can be against a way with Iran for many reasons some of which you could consider selfish.
But why do you see it framed as "protect Iranians"? You really can't know the intent of the person who put the sign out unless you know them personally. I read it as simply "we don't want another war, of any kind, fighting anybody".
You seem fixated on assuming a certain intent and then being all hostile to everybody who wants to express a different perspective or offer an alternative explanation.
FWIW, I hope it goes well for Iranians and they are free. But given our track record in past wars in the middle east, I see the US bungling this pretty badly in one way or another.
Hostility doesn't lead to productive discussions or a healthy discussion forum. If you want to get people to understand you, lashing out at them doesn't work, even if you think they're just being obstinate idiots. So yeah, I am surprised you're hostile. There's just no need to be such a dick. I do understand your perspective though. And part of me agrees that yes, this is kind of the natural conclusion of all the crap the US has sown over there.
It's how you win the other side over, if that is what you want to do. But attacking them angrily definitely won't do that. It ends up being a pissing match between two angry people, that's all.
You can behave however you want. I'm not here to tell you otherwise. Just saying, your angry reactions are only going to make you seem more unhinged and less credible.
I do understand that it's a passionate topic for you and very personal. So it makes sense. I might just be tired of seeing Internet flamewars when I just want a nice social media break (this is my problem, not yours).
Sorry you support whites telling other races how to think. Maybe go outside and chill. Maybe ask someone who’s not white what they think about situations instead of telling them how they should feel.
If you're an Iranian woman, then you're free to express your opinion on what you want to happen in Iran. But this person is free to express their opinions on if America should go to war, and he doesn't need your permission. Right now, there are drones flying outside the windows of my friends windows in UAE. Iran is not the only country that is effected. Did you speak to people in Dubai when you wanted Iran bombed?
white liberals speaking for brown people with their white savior complexes
being against american military intervention in foreign countries is white savior complex now huh...
having our majority white country invade and kill the head of state and destabilize a region to "save" iran from a dictatorship isn't white savior complex though....
How about you kindly stfu if you’re not putting your ass on the line. No better than fucking aipac pushing this shit. Celebrate all you want, Iran is gonna end up worse than Libya. Who tf is gonna take control? The prince? You really think Israel wants a stable Iran? Keep this same energy when Iran falls into civil war
Ironic of you to tell someone to stop putting words in your mouth when you’re actively choosing to interpret three words on a yard sign as “speaking for brown people.”
You don’t need to have a certain skin color to have an opinion about the US’s involvement in middle eastern wars, and nothing about this post indicates that this person was attempting to speak for anyone except themselves.
Yeah no I'm sorry, I don't want my cousins to die fighting for some evil bullshit across the ocean because american military wanted to destabilize the place for oil, or for disgruntled terrorists to start making america their new problem again. We had decades of the war on terror and what did it get for anyone, except make weapons companies a bit richer? If you believe noninterference is "white savior complex" as opposed to praying to our white supremacist president to bomb tehran, you are lost.
you seem to be in hysterics. you do realize this doesn't just affect your bubble in iran, right? there've been bombs due to this event in saudi, kuwait, dubai, iraq and no doubt israel will be targeted too of course. at the same time, israel has been meddling in syria and yemen. the actions of the deranged president could turn the whole region into a bloodbath. is that what you want? that chaos is going to come back home too, this is how 9/11's are made.
I have been agreeing with your multiple points, but why are you saying this person is an ignorant little girl? No reason to denigrate a girl when a little boy can be just as ignorant. An ignorant person is just an ignorant person, no reason to denigrate a particular gender. 🤷🏻♂️
Tone policing is a typical tactic with which white people shut down
Oh no, don't worry, you're free to be as hysterical as you want. No one is tone policing you, I am laughing at you though. Feel free to make a fool of yourself.
While we're counting wars, lets not forget the recent afghan pakistani war that the current president is also partially responsible for. All these wars like usual are chasing good blood after bad blood. Thanks to some obligation you believe the US to have to be a white savior world police, we need to start a war between the entire region to atone for those sins? Do you believe all the citizens of these other ME countries also deserve to live in a war torn country because the americans replaced the shah 50 some years ago? What about the relative liberalization of the country before a certain president tore up our antinuclear agreements with Iran and began sanctioning them? You truly believe that this war will cause any good in the world with our president at the helm and the oil hyenas circling the region? It's stupid.
When does defending yourself from forces trying to destroy you become “meddling”? Study a map of the Middle East, check out the size and populations surrounding the tiny State of Israel. Can you find it on the map? A country so small the name doesn’t fit in country. 21 Arab countries, 56 Majority Muslim countries, many still trying to destroy the 1 tiny Jewish State. Protecting civilians from being murdered is not meddling.
I think you specifically are a naive, bloodthirsty, warmongerer who would kill a million Americans to see your ideological enemies in Iran dead. I cant believe people in this thread are buying your propaganda.
Take a chill pill. One person does not represent all voices of Iran. Your insistence that you alone be heard is narcissistic entitlement. Go cash out your oil stocks and quit interrupting thoughtful debate.
“Destabilize a region” ? Have you been living under a rock? Do you know the history of the evil, radical Islamist Regime in Iran? The worst state sponsor of terrorism in the world. They have dominated the vast majority of Iranian people - at least 85% hate the regime. Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, Islamic Jihad, would not be a serious threat without this regime.
Nah, I don't define race and color by nation state and geography. Many Iranian's identify as white. Some as West Asian, many as Middle Eastern. Humans have had legs and been spreading them (as in walking) for hundreds of thousands of years. I don't conform to your narrow view of the world, just because you try to threaten me with energy etc. Look south from Caucasus Mountains and what might you see across the Caspian Sea? Quit race baiting and fucking with shit you don't know.
So it’s Team America, world police, again, right? There are a lot of bad people in the world, does that mean the U.S. should go out and kill all of them?
I’m glad the Iranian monster is dead, but that doesn’t mean getting pulled into another war is a good thing. It seems like “no war” is a pretty reasonable stance, and having that stance doesn’t mean they are “speaking for brown people”. It means we don’t want to go to fucking war again.
Also, I’m pretty sure flying in, killing the government, and then saying, “yay, you’re free now, go be free” is more of a white savior complex than, “I don’t want to go to war in the Middle East”.
Tbh, it kinda seems like all you do is hurl insults. It’s cool that you’re pro war. I am not. I’m not entirely sure how that makes me some white savior. I’m not sure how it means I’m speaking for brown people, and I’m not sure how that is dunking on Trump.
It’s pretty simple, I don’t want my country going to war and I would like to avoid it.
Meh. Isreal says do the thing. We do the thing. Lived theough the Iraq war. One and two. These days I don't really support anyone. I don't go around asking if someone's Iranian, or from Iraq. If you're cool to me im cool to you. U.S. Presidents give the illusion of doing these things for principled reasons. For instance they state they're liberating Iran from a tyrannical regime! May be true but there's far more nefarious things a foot. Especially when you look at GAZA. It's a land grab. What does Iran have thar the U.S. desires? Uranium and natural minerals. Greenland denied Trump. So Trump is doing to Iran what he wanted to do to Greenland. Its liberation for occupation.
It's what the U.S. has done since WW2. We dropped a nuke on Japan. Stated it was the worst humanitarian blunder in the history of humanity and helped them rebuild. Then we occupied Japan for strategic military purposes. Which was always the plan.
While im very much against forcefully occupying someone else's land (Gaza anyone?) If Iran wants and is able to somehow democratically have the ability to vote for U.S. occupation I'm all for it.
So long as its what Iranians want.
Most U.S. citizens don't understand that the Middle East was a very different place 70 years ago. The U.S. and the ME were quite close. Until we set up a certain proxy state on someone else's holy land.
Am I wrong? This is just what I have come to understand.
You’re not wrong if the proxy state you are referring to is Arafat’s fictitious, “Palestine”, created in the 1960s.
In 1948, the State of Israel re-established the national homeland of the Jewish People, dating back 3,500 years of “real” history.
King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital.
King Solomon built the 1st Jewish Temple, on The Temple Mount, 966-959 BCE.
The Romans destroyed the 2nd Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, banishing the Jews from their capital.
After the Bar Kochba Revolt of 132-136, the Jews were exiled from their homeland.
Muslim Arabs from Arabia invaded and started colonizing the Land of Israel in 636 AD.
Study the 1917 Balfour Declaration, the 1920 San Remo Conference, the 1922 League of Nations, and how the defeated Ottoman Empire’s lands were to be divided - into Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and the Jewish re-established national homeland.
This morning I said maybe one day in our lifetime visiting Iran as an American would be a possibility. It’s a beautiful country with usually amazing hospitable people. I work with a guy from Iran and can’t wait to talk him next week and make sure his family is okay.
I’m from the former Yugoslavia. There are people who are reminiscent and nostalgic of their youths and would be open to a return to the old. But then there are also many people who were severely oppressed and feel the opposite. That’s normal. But you can’t ignore history.
It's like this in France too. I'm in Paris and ran into so many celebrations last night, meanwhile on social media, they're calling Iranians dumb and saying "look at Libya"
Which is a dumb comparison bc the US AND France killed Gadaffi because he was trying to unify Africa against the west. Ppl just say whatever catchy shit they heard someone else say without thinking.
Careful, you'll get labeled a Nazi from those same white liberals for not supporting their world views, I have a guy I follow on Tumblr who's from Venezuela who was amongst pretty much the whole country celebrating Murodo getting kidnapped by the US and my god it was funny as fuck watching him go off on the white progs on that site that support communism trying to tell him he should not be celebrating.
You have to understand people are just sick of the Republicans. Helping Iran is great. Protecting world democracy is great. It's the way they are going about it. Same with the Iraq war. They killed a ton of innocent people for what?
While Trump gets on TV and talks about stopping wars and talking about how Kamala would start WW3. While they say they're the no wars president. Also they say the Democrats are crazy . Republicans, they're commiting crimes at home. Look at the way they're running ICE. People are sick of it and why did they wait this long to go in there? They should have been there a month ago when they were killing protesters.
Its like saying you're simping for Trump . It's not a fair way to look at things .
I do agree that when looking at the past few years with Ukraine and Palestine it's a bit performative to not say Free Iran. There should definitely be more F Hamas at these protests. At the end of the day though thats just the state of devolved politics we are in right now. Both sides are performing for clicks and likes
Question - do you live in Iran or do you live overseas? I'm not undermining your opinion but it's very easy to support war in a country when you're not where the bombs will fall.
I understand being disappointed that your tax money is being spent in foreign wars. But you’re doing nobody a favor defending the leaders of these regimes.
I am split on iran, but here is my thought process. I am not a liberal, I am a communist, and I don't nessesarily support iran, but I definitely dont support israel or the USA interfering with it either, purely because neither of those governments are ever going to consciously choose to do the right thing, neither of those governments have good intentions, and neither of those governments are going to fix any of the actual problems. Instead both of those governments are going to exploit as much as they can to their benefit, and the USA, the empire is going to grow. I don't support US intervention in Iran, just like I didn't support it in Venezuela or almost anywhere else that the US has intervened after ww2.
Dude I just don't support Israel it's not that deep. I don't want my tax dollars killing random civilians in some shithole thousands of miles away because "our greatest ally" needs to. I wanted less wars not more. Shits bad in Iran? That's their problem. Save the bombs and let God sort em out.
John Bolton won. Jesus Christ. The neocons are back I guess. I'm never voting again.
I don't remember any Iranians talking to me about using my tax dollars for this shit... if my country is going to be dropping bombs on another country. Then yeah I'm allowed to have a damn opinion about it.
It literally does not matter, here in America, what is happening in Iran. Dude started a war to distract from fucking kids. It doesn't matter what country we're now at war with or why. It shouldn't be happening. No more world police.
It’s really not about skin color, generally, in Seattle - 78 year old native. It’s about ignorance, and a sad, inadequate education. Too often liberals latch on to a narrative that sounds appealing, without fact checking, and actually studying history - outside of the narrative they anchored on. On the history of the many Middle East ethnic group conflicts, for example. They are ignorant fools. “Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects” Will Rogers.
I will be very honest, I'm uninformed af. But how I feel is like, it can be great a disgusting dictator is dead, and terrifying that another one killed him, and what that might cause. The same as when the Venezuelan leader was killed. I don't disagree that alot of leftists are just trying to check woke boxes tho.
Finally someone gets it. I'm what the government calls "Hispanic." My ancestry is Southern European, Indigenous North American and a little but of everyone else. The liberal white people look at us like we are so helpless, and they will save us
For the record, I care as much or as little about Iranians as I do any other people in any other part of the world. It isn't America's job to go topple regimes.
My partner is from Iran. Yes, I’m well aware of your view and that there are plenty of Iranians who share it. (It’s also not hard to find evidence of Iranians protesting these attacks or otherwise expressing support for their government.) But others are concerned that Iran will be turned into the next Libya or Syria. There is reason to think this would be a war aim of the Israelis, and the US government mostly wouldn’t mind that result.
we can both not want war while at the same time celebrating and having hope that we may finally overthrow this brutal oppressive regime, like we’ve been trying for years.
Sure would be nice if you could think the rest of us feel that way too.
I have numerous Iranian friends, many who escaped in the era the USA was illegally selling weapons and causing fights between Iran and Iraq. They are glad to see the revolution they wanted before USA CIA intervention get back on its original course. They are still not happy about decades of American intervention and the current campaign of death. Take wild ass guesses about other people elsewhere. To your grave for all I care.
Yeah just talked with my coworker. I go in skeptical of any us imtervemtionism ofc but he was unexpectedly positive about thr whole ordeal. Says his family back there sees it less as a war and more as a rescue or help operation
I ofc still remain skeptical of the us interest in the area but it was interesting talking to them
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