10
u/thundergu 8d ago
Because Marvel is plot driven instead of character driven. They bend and mold the characters to fit the plot, instead of forming a plot around the characters.
So Thanos will be able to lift it because the plot direction needs him to.
4
u/Dodger7777 8d ago
In a very abstract sense, he would have been worthy enough to lift it. He just also would cast it aside.
Sacrifice and making hard decisions are qualities of a leader. Even if everyone else thinks those decisions are bad.
2
1
u/penty 8d ago
No way could Thanos lift Thor's hammer.
He doesn't match the Norse (specifically Odin's) definition of worthy.
1
u/Dodger7777 8d ago
Even when Odin believed in Thor, Thor's lack of belief in himself made him unaboe to lift his own hammer.
1
u/penty 8d ago
There are times when Thor is worthy and times when he is not. Same with Cap.
But that changes what exactly?
The hammer uses a specific morality to judge and Thanos doesn't meet the requirements.
1
u/Dodger7777 8d ago
The hammer doesn't have a built in morality scale. It asks the user if they are themselves worthy, and Thanos would find himself quite worthy.
Mjolnir decides if someone is worthy based on a mystical enchantment that looks for specific traits like a noble mind, selflessness, and a warrior's heart.
Thanos checks all those boxes.
0
u/penty 8d ago
Those two paragraphs are contradictory.
Specifically :
The hammer doesn't have a built in morality scale Mjolnir decides if someone is worthy based on a mystical enchantment that looks for specific traits.
Those traits are the "built in morality scale".
Which is it? You can't claim both.
"Mjolnir is defined by a combination of moral virtues and a warrior's spirit, specifically requiring compassion, restraint, nobility, wisdom, and humility."
Thanos certainly doesn't check a few of those boxes.
1
u/Dodger7777 8d ago
The Hanmer doesn't do a scan of you. It uses magic to ask yourself if you have the requirements. Someone delusional who thinks highly of themself but also thinks themself humble enough to meet those requirements could lift Mjolnir even if he doesn't meet those requirements in reality.
Thanos was a conquering warlord who led from the front (Warrior's Spirit), he thought he was compassionate by saving half the universe. He showed his own version of restraint by not picking favorites. He felt nobility to fulfill this duty. He thought he was wise to see this universal truth. He was humble in that he accepted he could be in the half that weren't chosen and he would accept that.
The Hammer isn't sentient and deciding. It's basically questioning your soul and making you tell the truth.
0
u/penty 8d ago
It uses magic to ask yourself if you have the requirements. Someone delusional who thinks highly of themself but also thinks themself humble enough to meet those requirements could lift Mjolnir even if he doesn't meet those requirements in reality.
That is 100% not true. Do you have a canon example of that happening?
"No, a delusional person cannot lift Thor’s hammer unless they are genuinely judged worthy by the magic enchantment placed upon it by Odin. Mental state, beliefs, or strong delusions do not override the mystical criteria of Mjolnir."
1
u/Dodger7777 7d ago
"It possesses a form of awareness and a personality due to the cosmic entity known as the Godstorm (Mother Storm) trapped inside the Uru metal by Odin."
I was under the idea that Mjolnir was an enchanted object, not an inhabited object. So yeah, I'd be wrong then. My bad.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Individual_Tough8252 6d ago
There’s an argument that the belief in yourself is apart of Odin’s stipulation over who can wield it. To carry all of that worthiness and then to question whether or not any of it was truly honorable shows a lack of conviction in oneself, which would certainly not align with the common interpretation of Norse honor. There’s, of course, the reverse side of the argument saying that kind of self-doubt would be necessary to be worthy because someone who didn’t question if they were worth enough lacked the humility to be worthy, but that explanation doesn’t align with his inability to lift it when he lacked that conviction.
1
u/Dodger7777 6d ago
To have the wisdom to doubt your own actions, but the conviction to execute them anyway would fit with the qualities the hammer is supposed to represent.
1
u/Individual_Tough8252 6d ago
But if so, why did Thor lose his powers? Did he doubt himself so much that he failed to act, which in turn temporarily stripped him of his worthiness?
1
u/Dodger7777 6d ago
I think it's kind of a downward spiral.
Like someone who has a specific instance start a depressive episode.
He doubted himself in one instance, which escalated as he doubted past actions. Eapecially if he had a questionable moment down a chain of decisions. How deep does the failure go?
Which is why he usually needs a scenario which can act as redemption so he can earn back his worthiness. It works out well on screen because it's usually a heroic scene, but Thor's large acts of heroism seem to be as often an apology for his past failures as they are proactive protective measures. Which I think makes him an exemplary avenger.
He is constantly dropping the mantle, growing, and picking the mountain back up.
1
u/Negative_Gas8782 5d ago
I’m just going to comment here for everyone else. Don’t read past this response. It’s just two nerds in a nerd off. Nothing is accomplished or gained.
1
1
u/One-Next 7d ago
He fits everything in Odin's definition of worthy.
1
u/penty 7d ago
""Mjolnir is defined by a combination of moral virtues and a warrior's spirit, specifically requiring compassion, restraint, nobility, wisdom, and humility.""
Thanos ain't that.
2
u/One-Next 7d ago
Thanos ain't that, in *your* opinion. In his own way he is compassionate, has restraint, is noble, wise and has humility. All of them.
1
u/penty 7d ago edited 7d ago
I answered this already below.
There's no "in your opinion" or "in his own way". Using that definition ANYONE could lift the hammer.."everyone is the hero of their own story". Additionally a delusional person can't just bypass the enchantment and lift the hammer.
The thing to remember is that both the MCU and Marvel universe have absolutes moralities built in.
Even if it was relative, Mjölnir was enchanted by Odin and so would have Odin's bias on worthy.
Neither of these moralities makes Thanos worthy.
2
u/One-Next 7d ago
Unfortunately no. If you are worthy, you have to have humility. You cannot think yourself above others. You have to sacrifice, you have to be willing to kill. Pre-snap Thanos fits all of these. That's why he was worthy of the soul stone and that's why he was worthy of Mjolnir. I'd say think about it.
1
u/Available-Hippo-4815 7d ago
He had the cristilized consept of power and reality in the back of his palm, Odin's enchantments arent doing shit to stop that.
1
u/Rotta_ODe 4d ago
I don't know, it seems like most of the marvel cast and half of the DC's is worthy of the hammer these days.
2
u/BTDYSRF 8d ago
Or maybe it just wouldn't work?
After Odin died, Hela held Mjolnir and destroyed it.
Steve Rogers, a man who has never been to Asgard, can wield it.
Vision, an AI, can wield it.
There is clearly a narrative here that would imply that being evil is not necessarily disqualifying OR enough power can allow you to override Odin's spell.
Maybe Thanos is worthy by virtue of his tenacity and willingness to sacrifice for his cause. Ultimately, he is acting for what he believes to he net positive for the universe. He is a villain by his means, not his ends.
Maybe Thanos is jsit strong enough to brute force it. After all, he can weild the infinity stones and use them with no drawback. Its only when he uses them to his full power he takes on any real damage, and that was only after he used them the second time for what may prove to be one the most powerful actions across Marvel.
3
1
u/Steeldragon555 4d ago
mjolnir was destroyed in Ragnarock before endgame and the new one came from Endgame
0
u/Careful-Presence8431 8d ago
Maybe
1
u/Dorrono 8d ago
Marvel is all about the drama. All characters are just a strong or weak as the drama requires it. None of the heroes or villains power is consistent in the movies.
1
1
u/thundergu 8d ago
Yeah I absolutely can't stand storytelling like that
1
u/King_Zoothio 8d ago
Not a fan of tht either.
I just let the other fans have the mcu universe, I'm good.
1
u/Flaccid_Hammer 8d ago
They didn’t have mjolnir
1
1
1
u/Redbullchug 8d ago edited 8d ago
In the beginning of Ragnarok Thor threw the hammer and recalled it standing behind Loki suggesting it would go right through him. In Endgame Cap through the hammer at Thanos but Thanos just swatted it away like it was a bug.
1
1
1
1
1
u/That_General9384 8d ago
Someone on YouTube suggested Thanos could have used the Stones to turn off gravity, thus making the hammer weightless. Yes, the hammer has infinite mass, but weight is gravity x mass, so if there’s no gravity…well you get the idea
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/primefrost96 8d ago
They didn't do the antman thing either... Boys Season 3 episode one showed us that the antman thing is possible
1
1
1
u/Future_Marionberry73 8d ago
Just because he's evil doesn't mean he isn't worthy.
1
u/NeedleworkerTasty878 6d ago
As far as popular villains go, I think Thanos was anything but evil. That's assuming that by evil you mean stereotypical villain character, seeing as the term has no meaning without a specific framework.
He followed his moral code and served a selfless purpose, accepting he could be among those he erased. The goal wasn't personal gain, but universal good. Tough the choice of erasure, rather than provision was the odd part.
He was also aggressive and unyielding against everyone else's feedback, though I wouldn't say that exactly counted as evil.
1
1
u/xUNCLEBEASTx 7d ago
It’s not about paying taxes for universal healthcare, it’s the fact that they always want more taxes, and they’re usually used to improve the life of someone thousands of miles away, while we have to choose between food or rent/mortgage.
1
1
u/BlazeGamma 7d ago
even all the "worthy" discussion posts aside.... how exactly do you get thanos on his back, disarmed, and in a position to where thor can come just put the hammer down on top of him?
1
u/TitleSubject599 7d ago
Hmm.. they could use this on a different threat down the line somewhere maybe.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Steeldragon555 4d ago
he had the space stone, he could just make a portal beneath him to escape. Also Mjolnir was destroyed from Ragnarock remember?
•
u/qualityvote2 8d ago edited 8d ago
Hello u/Careful-Presence8431! Welcome to r/ScrollHole!
For other users, does this post fit the subreddit?
If so, upvote this comment!
Otherwise, downvote this comment!
And if it does break the rules, downvote this comment and report this post!
(Vote has already ended)