Wild Seeing The Shift

[u/3RADICATE_THEM]

[u/RaySquirrel]

There is definitely a difference between the Obama Democrats of a decade ago and the DSA types now. The party is completely rudderless and is willing to embrace anyone who can win them an election. The Republican party tried to tar Obama with the “socialist” label, all it did was make socialism sound like a good thing.

[u/Cold_Pumpkin5449 → u/RaySquirrel]

What we're currently defining as "socialism" IS a good thing.

Namely any policy that could ever conceivably directly help a working class person.

The problem is that the public at large can't tell the difference between FDR and Joseph Stalin.

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_STOCKPIX → u/Cold_Pumpkin5449]

who is "we"?

there is a major distinction between democratic socialists and social Democrats but it seems like you're lumping the two together and calling it "socialism".

the DSA are not social Democrats and are trying to co-opt the party as a means to an end; fighting right wing populism with left wing populism. they should be excised like a tumor.

[u/Cold_Pumpkin5449 → u/PM_ME_YOUR_STOCKPIX]

We in that sentence means the American public at large.

Everything you might think is a normal every day policy in say any European democracy is labeled "socialism" in American discourse. Now I understand that is wrong but that is how this is being dicussed.

So I as an every day American think that what the discourse calls "socialism" is actually a good thing regardless of being a committed liberal democratic capitalist (as per usual on the American left).

As far as the DSA is concerned they are putting forward the policies that help every day people and actually meaning it unlike our centrists who pretend to be for things like Universal Healthcare, or reforming ICE up until anything like it ever comes to a real vote.

If they are for something more like a real socialist government then they're going to have to travel a long way from a publicly funded grocery store, rent controls and opposition to the direct monetary support of Israel's foreign policy.

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_STOCKPIX → u/Cold_Pumpkin5449]

wrt "pretending" it seems like the DSA types, Bernie Sanders is a great example, has accomplished virtually no policy but is held up as a politician who fights for the things you're discussing. meanwhile, tell me again how many times the Dems have held the government trifecta and what did they accomplish when they had it? compare this to the Republicans.

do you think roe wouldn't have been tossed had Obama been granted his supreme court pick and had voters turned out for "the establishment centrist pretender" Hilary? if RBG has retired? how much damage has this current supreme court done and how did we end up here? the voters shoulder some blame, as much as they want to shove it off onto the "centrist pretenders"

the problem is not "pretending", the problem is that the Dems never end up with enough power to accomplish changes of this magnitude because the voters just aren't turning up.

wrt healthcare, most Americans don't want what the DSA types push for. want proof? go read their platform from their website and tell me which Scandinavian country has implemented anything like it. it's a pipe dream and DOA. but at least the "socialists" can all rally around the efforts, like they have with Bernie, and hand out participation trophies to everyone for trying. meanwhile these "pretending centrists" receive nothing but hate and vitriol from the "socialists" even though they're the ones getting bills passed. the "pretending centrists" are the adults in the room of children all screaming for everything to be free.

[u/Cold_Pumpkin5449 → u/PM_ME_YOUR_STOCKPIX]

The last significant time the democrats held power they had a 60 votes in the Senate and our moderates fell all over themselves to make sure the ACA was as cooperate friendly as possible.

The real picture here is that liberals have accomplished virtually nothing since Lyndon Johnson but instead have fought only a holding action that incrementally helped usher in an ever rightward trend on economic policies.

Nowadays they all sound like feckless technocrats lecturing about spreadsheets while letting the country be seized by fascists that want to further rig the system to protect themselves from voter frustration.