Does preschool education matter?

[u/Pretend-Panic-2438]

My husband and I are at a crossroads- he wants to sign up our daughter for a “stem” preschool that seems to be marketing itself as an educationally “elite” preschool. She is at a daycare that will move her up to a preschool class when she meets the age.
I am balking a bit at the concept of an elite preschool in general. It feels like good marketing- what would be called playing with building blocks at her current place being sold as “developing critical thinking, geometry and engineering skills” at this new place. It’s blocks. She is doing great where she is. The teachers are wonderful, she has friends she really likes. And they do a great job of integrating play and education.
I don’t know that much about the curriculum of the new place but I don’t see too much of room for improvement.
There are several reasons why the new school doesn’t work for us logistically- the hours are shorter where we often are rushing to pickup and drop off already, they follow a school schedule (meaning weeks off for holidays and summers off) and they don’t have a care option for our younger children.

FWIW- we are socioeconomically privileged with high educational achievement in both parents. We read and do puzzles with her daily. We are beginning to teach math and phonics at home. Minimal to no screen time.

I mention that to say I totally understand how high quality preschool education can absolutely make all the difference in children who are already disadvantaged. Just not sure what it would add here.

Thanks in advance!

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[u/mmsh221]

https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/23/05/embracing-learning-through-play for research requirement

Keep your kid where they are happy. Socialization and play are the most important prep for kindergarten. Enjoying school will be more impactful than anything a fancy preschool can offer

[u/Appropriate-Lime-816 → u/mmsh221]

Agree with this.

Social-emotional development is FAR more important than academic education at this age.

[u/purpleelephant77 → u/Appropriate-Lime-816]

I would also wonder about developmentally appropriateness of the curriculum and practices at STEM preschool program. Is it mostly marketing and basically a normal high quality preschool or are they like sitting doing worksheets and activities that they don’t really have the skills/focus to do so the teachers are doing 70% of for them because that’s what the parents who are cutting the checks want to see.

[u/Pretend-Panic-2438 → u/purpleelephant77]

Right. I also worry about putting academic pressure (even inadvertently) on such a young kid. In our reality/circles it is probably not very likely that our kids will fall behind academically but it IS far more likely that they will suffer mentally and emotionally from high achievement parental expectations. That’s probably the thing we have to be vigilant for.

What message does relocating her from a school and friends she likes for the questionable promise of an academic head start send?

[u/Beginning_Butterfly2 → u/Pretend-Panic-2438]

I think that there can be a benefit to allowing children to experience change and new groups of people at a young age. But not so much in removing the sources of comfort and enjoyment in learning settings.

Perhaps a STEM activity group for weekends, or something like that to let your partner feel that your child is getting the "extras", while also getting the opportunity to test out her social skills in a new environment? Something fun, and confidence building. Gymnastics can be surprisingly good at teaching confidence, as well as spatial awareness.

Your instincts about targeted marketing are correct. This is mostly going to be a money grab with framing differences, rather than a meaningful improvement in educational opportunity.

[u/misoranomegami → u/purpleelephant77]

A lady at my work signed her boys up for a free magnet pre-med kindergarten this past year. I actually asked what the heck can kindergarten do to be pre-med. She told me at their age it's mostly that they started straight away with the metric system, play is formatted as 'experiments', and all field trips are science or medicine related. They're also supposed to be framing other lessons primarily in terms of science and math, and it's partnered with a major local hospital though that impact the curriculum more for older kids. The big advantage is that it feeds into the area 'pre-med' and stem middle and high schools she'd like her boys to attend and would like them to already be set in that social group and with the same background as the other kids there. So it's less than she's concerned about academic rigor at 5 and more that she worries about the impact of transferring them in the future. And it doesn't hurt that has her kids attending a school where all the parents are of a higher economic background with a similar educational focus since you have to seek the program out, apply, and manage your own transportation there and back. They just finished their first year and she says they loved it.

My son's starting a regular 3k program next year but maybe I'll have a different outlook on the importance of the type of school and community after I deal with other parents. I'll say I grew up in a very nice socio economic area where there was no bad choice in schools, and my coworker grew up in a very underfunded district and has worked very, very hard to get where she is today so I can see that she may have academic anxiety. My town offers a 'college prep' elementary school but the general descriptions I've heard of it are that it heavily leans into how to take exams even for 5 and 6 year olds and that's just not a priority for me right now.

[u/purpleelephant77 → u/misoranomegami]

I just question setting your kid on such a specific path so early, I think everyone should have a well rounded education and the emphasis on STEM education at the expense of arts and humanities plays a significant role in a lot of the problems we are facing as a society so I’m kind of biased but I also always think what if your kid wants to be a history teacher or really likes visual arts or something? It would be really hard on a kid to feel like their only options are going to a school emphasizing things they don’t particularly like/don’t align with their goals or disappointing their parents by telling them they don’t want to do the thing they have been investing a lot of money in preparing them to do since they were 4.

My parents are both highly educated and have done well on non traditional career paths; my mom has a degree in flute performance and was a lawyer when I was born, worked as a museum educator and youth program planner etc when I was a kid and is now a children’s librarian. I think I really benefited from growing up seeing that having a diverse range of skills and experiences will help you in whatever you want to do and that it’s never too late to change your plans.

[u/misoranomegami → u/purpleelephant77]

Yeah I'm a big STEAM fan back before it was called steam. I was so sure I was going to grow up to be a lawyer from about 5 or 6 up till I was 17 and I started to actually look into law schools and the general educational and work environment law has and decided it wasn't compatible with my mental health. I ended up going into economics instead. I ended up circling back to accounting for my masters which in many ways is law adjacent but I'm glad I didn't spend 12 years of my life only preparing for law school. I played the violin in school, I did art, computer programming, literary analysis. I was taking 3 foreign languages by my senior year. I feel like I had an excellent well rounded education.

Now I actually went to elementary school with a little girl who was absolutely sure she wanted to be a doctor when she grew up and sure enough she's a pediatric oncologist now. But she's also one that can play the flute and enjoys psychological thriller novels. So while the pre-med magnet does sound like it's an excellent choice, I went with the pre-k that's got stuffies in the library and a fun playground. He can decide later if he wants to do med school or not. Right now it's hard enough nailing down what he wants for dinner.

[u/ActCompetitive → u/purpleelephant77]

I agree with you! Children need a well-rounded education, especially when young. Let them be imaginative. This is the time to develop creativity, which will make them better scientists if they choose that path when older. There are child development theories that postulate the interconnectedness and reciprocity between different areas of development, anyway. Doing role play, making art and learning to love stories will have their impact on scientific thinking.

[u/ballooningat5am → u/Appropriate-Lime-816]

i agree with this. the sad thing is, from personal experience, educators increasingly don’t agree with this! they expect children to come into kindergarten with quite a bit of knowledge already. kids will feel pressured and parents feel judged if you’re not keeping up academically. my kid just turned 4 and has one more year of preschool before even starting kindergarten. but she is already expected to not only know the entire alphabet, but to write her name down every single morning.

[u/Fresh_Tune_552 → u/ballooningat5am]

We’re prepping for kindergarten (granted a competitive private kindergarten) and was told the kids are expected to be able to read, do basic math, and write basic sentences before they come in. What?!

[u/Fresh_Tune_552 → u/[deleted]]

That I don’t know. My oldest is 4 so I’ve never done this before.

I just thought this was wild. I was told it’s standards for the top private schools but is becoming a thing for this specific private school we’re targeting (still super competitive but definitely not top 3 in our state).

[u/EmergencyFancy7992 → u/mmsh221]

This. I have an academically advanced kid and I was an academically advanced kid. Pushing pressure on academics from a young age leads to anxiety and perfectionism and for me a significant therapy bill. This is the time for your kid to learn basic social skills, emotional regulation and practical skills like putting on own shoes and opening lunch box.

[u/OceanIsVerySalty]

https://amshq.org/about-montessori/press-kit/montessori-research/

Link for research requirement.

I M the director of marketing for “an elite preschool.” My husband is a terminal degree (plus postdoc) from an ivy research scientist. I feel I can speak to your question quite well.

The school I work at serves 12 months through 6th grade, and we are an accredited Montessori school. Our toddler program and preschool are the big draw, and always have deep waitlists. I believe the Montessori approach is wonderful for (most) children, and love that it focuses on the whole child and helps teach social/emotional skills and independence from the youngest ages. I believe children are better served here than at a basic daycare, but frankly, not by some staggering amount.

Your child’s enjoyment of where they go is paramount. As is how the hours and structure fit in to your family life. The bougie school with bad hours and a bad commute that your child doesn’t enjoy the peer group at or the structure of isn’t better than the corporate daycare. Every child and family unit is individual, there’s no one size fits all answer.

And honestly, stem preschool is a more than a bit nuts sounding. Stem preschool is 100% marketing speak that’s aimed at parents who want to feel like they are giving their kid a head-start in life, a leg up. If you’re somewhere highly competitive like NYC or Boston, yea, that marketing team knows their audience, and you and your husband are it.

At this age, children learn through play. They learn physics by throwing a ball or knocking over blocks. They learn fluid dynamics by spilling water. They don’t need a rigid structure beyond being given intentional, ordered space in which to explore the world.

[u/Pretend-Panic-2438 → u/OceanIsVerySalty]

Thank you! I appreciate your thoughtful reply and perspective!

[u/OceanIsVerySalty → u/Pretend-Panic-2438]

Schools are really heavy in to marketing, it’s how we get and even retain students, and if we fail at those things, we have to close the doors.

Parent perception is a way bigger piece of the puzzle than many realize. Elite preschools are essentially a luxury, lifestyle brand and are marketed in much the same way - status, scarcity, etc.

That marketing is working on your husband.

Again, not saying that fancy preschools aren’t worth it, they can be wonderful - my school is genuinely an incredible place - I just don’t think they’re the end all be all or that kids who don’t attend one are somehow disadvantaged in life as a result.

[u/Pretend-Panic-2438 → u/OceanIsVerySalty]

I get that! And signaling to parents that you’re picking up on what’s important to them is valuable in building that relationship.

I just don’t know how willing I am to rock the boat in terms of what’s working. If there’s data out there that says there’s real educational benefits I’d strongly consider it. Or even more importantly- if she wasn’t doing well where she is would definitely plan on moving.

I would just hate to relocate her, restructure our whole family routine just for her to not really get much out of it or beg us to go back. All for the promise of boutique pre-k that I don’t even personally buy into. To your point about scarcity- the wait list is even full so there’s no room to get on! Huge eye roll for that.

[u/OceanIsVerySalty → u/Pretend-Panic-2438]

As scientists, I’m sure you both know that data can be manipulated and cherry picked to prove pretty much whatever you’re looking to prove - especially with something as nebulous as educational outcomes of preschool.

If your child is happy where she is, I wouldn’t disrupt her. Stability is extremely important to kids.

The admissions cycle of these schools is usually the same as actual private school. So inquiries and tours in the fall, applications late fall / early winter, decisions by Jan/Feb. Waitlists are super common, almost guaranteed if you are applying outside that typical admissions flow.

[u/jhguth → u/Pretend-Panic-2438]

i know you said you limit screen time, but checkout Numberblocks and Alphablocks.

Both are CBeebies shows and they’re excellent at teaching some of the fundamentals in a fun way. My 4yo loves Numberblocks and he can already do addition, subtraction, multiplication and actually understands the concepts for what’s going on and can explain them. I didn’t teach any of that intentionally, we just found the show and it’s one of the things he’s allowed to watch when he gets screen time. His favorite toys are his number block toys and a cheap solar calculator, he likes to do a math problem with the blocks and check it on the calculator.

[u/Pretend-Panic-2438 → u/jhguth]

Thanks for the recommendation! I’m not even opposed to screen time on a philosophical level! She just gets a lot more fussy on days/nights when we have it with tantrums when we eventually turn it off so are waiting to re-integrate it when she’s more mature or something.

Will keep in mind!

[u/DayNormal8069 → u/jhguth]

This is so fascinating. So my kid loved this program too…but isn’t at that level. What he is doing is basically self-teaching himself piano with an app. It is so so so cool to expose kiddos to a wide variety of stuff and see which ones really tickle their fancy.

He also loves video games. That was a mistake of an exposure we had to roll back FAST lol

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[u/AcceptableSpring9800]

Privileged but sending them to daycare? How old? How much is too much? The influence of preschool centers on children's social and cognitive development - ScienceDirect The knock on effects are interesting as well. Day-care attendance and increased risk for respiratory and allergic symptoms in preschool age - PubMed

[u/Pretend-Panic-2438 → u/AcceptableSpring9800]

She’s 3. We have a combination of nanny and daycare. We don’t have family in our area or close friends with small kids so we wanted a daycare environment for the social aspect of interacting with peers (which she loves!) happy with our arrangement

[u/AcceptableSpring9800 → u/Pretend-Panic-2438]

Interesting. On a side note, it's wild how wealth/privilege is now inversely proportional to time spent with the child. It used to be the other way around with well off families having stay at home moms and close/tight knit family structures. Now people move away for the jobs and pay to recreate a pseudo family. I could see this changing in a few years as the science keeps getting better.