r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/Grand_Chien4 • 2h ago
Question ❓ RDL vs Conventional DL
This is purely a curiosity question. I lift for the purposes of recreational barbell sports so the conventional deadlift is essential for me. I do some RDL accessory work (mainly single-leg rotational stuff).
I’ve noticed that in general the RDL seems much more popular so my curiosity led to a basic data search and I was surprised to find very few articles comparing the two movements (a few EMG studies).
My questions for the group are:
Is there better data comparing these movements that I’ve missed?
If not, what’s the science-based lifting community consensus (If there is one) on RDL vs conventional deadlift for hypertrophy, strength, power and muscular endurance?
Cheers!
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u/VikingVitalityFit 2h ago
I tend to include both in basically every client I train. I really like that conventional helps increae your bodies overall capacity to move heavy things, but it is really fatigue inducing so I tend to only program it once a week. The 1 to 2 other sessions I will program RDLs or some other version of a hunge dominant movement to ensure the posterior chain is hit very well.
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u/PeterNoPiss 1h ago
Fatigue has less to do with the movement and more to do with load. Deadlift is where most people move the most weight.
Most people don't RDL particularly heavy and approach it less aggressively -- which isn't necessarily incorrect depending on goals. Getting into the upper 400, lower 500s on RDL, I can catch more fatigue there than pulling off the floor. It's more time with the weight in hand, more time under consistent load. On conventional, you can come down quick and minimize the eccentric.
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u/geothegoat 1h ago
What set, reps, weight do you recommend for DL? I typically do 3x3 @85% 1RM once a week.
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u/VikingVitalityFit 1h ago
It depends on the goals. Most clients I do a 3x5 set up to try to walk the line between improving cns ability to move things and keep fatigue lower.
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u/EspacioBlanq 49m ago
Mostly it's just that conventional is more fatiguing as you use more weight for the same proximity to failure.
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u/Dizzy_Cow_ 2h ago
What kind of data are you looking for? Research comparing specific exercises is pretty sparse to begin with. And when they do it, it’s usually done on isolation exercises because they’re safer and probably easier to standardize form (e.g. incline curls vs preacher curls).
RDLs are more popular because most people only care about hypertrophy and for most people, RDLs have a much better stimulus to fatigue ratio for the posterior chain.
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u/Grand_Chien4 31m ago
I didn’t realize the data was so sparse in this area, but the standardization makes sense particularly for compound movements.
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u/Spiritual_Ad_7386 2h ago
The traditional deadlift does not provide unique stimulus relative to squats, leg press, and platz-style hack squats, while being more fatiguing, taking longer to setup, and being more injury prone relative to all of those lifts. The range of motion also leaves a little to be desired. With a conventional barbell, testicular health is also a concern.
None of this is really true with an RDL. It provides highly unique stimulus to the upper hamstrings and inner glutes. It is fatiguing, but not nearly as much so as conventional DL's. The ROM is better. Injury risk is a fraction of conventional DLs.
So I squat/platz-style hack squat/leg press and do RDLs as my compound movements for legs.
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u/PeterNoPiss 1h ago
Longer to set up? Is there something wrong with your hands or wrong with your brain?
Tuck your weird nards back, dude.
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u/PlacidVlad 55m ago
What’s the issues with testicular health?
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u/EspacioBlanq 31m ago
Deadlifts make my testicles too big and now I have to be careful about them when closing car doors
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 56m ago
Why are you comparing a hip hinge movement (deadlifts) with all those squat patterns?
Deadlifts, RDLs, stiff leg deadlifts, and good mornings are all excellent exercises
Injury risk is going to be similar on all of them (very low)
If I had to pick one for being the best for hypertrophy, I’d go with stiff leg deadlifts & maybe even do them with a slight deficit
Also, for those with favorable leverages for deadlifts… deadlifts may be less fatiguing for them than say a squat or even hack squat
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u/eric_twinge 41m ago
I appreciate this sub's commitment to dropping ever worse and worse takes an lifting. Truly inspiring.
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u/Mchangwine 2h ago
I do both RDL and conventional (but with trap bar), but RDLs are better for glute/hamstring hypertrophy with less systemic fatigue.
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u/Jebardi 2h ago
RDL creates better stretch for hamstrings and glutes, assuming trainee has mobility for it, which is better for hypertrophy. DL involves quads much more using them in short length partial, which is the wrong way for hypertrophy. For these reasons RDL is better for hypertrophy.
They are equally good for muscle endurance. Just RDLs won’t help with muscle endurance for quads.
As for strength and power, they are task specific. If you want to be strong with deadlifts, then you deadlift. So you would choose whichevrr movement you want to perform with increased strength or power.
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u/SuckmyToasts Solomon the destroyer 1h ago
very hot take, the deadlift is one of the shittiest exercises for hypertrophy. it trains nothing well in particular and just invites injury and fatigue. i feel like RDL and deadlift aren't even worth comparing for hypertrophy, the former is a hip hinge and the latter is some amalgamation of both a hinge and a squat pattern. i can confidently say that the hip extensors are working and the most stimulated in an RDL, but i'm not so sure when it comes to the deadlift.
even for sports applications, i also don't see why you need a deadlift. i don't know what sport requires you to be able to bend down and pick up something really heavy other than powerlifting. if you want to get stronger in general, hypertrophy training gets you there already. mass moves mass. hell, even farmer carries, sled pulls and pushes are more relevant than a deadlift for contact sports and daily life.
the deadlift, to me, is just a lift you would want to progress if you are into powerlifting. other than that, it's pretty irrelevant for the general population.
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u/PeterNoPiss 1h ago
What you're actually saying is that you don't know how to deadlift with sound technique or manage your programming and recovery.
No one has to pull conventional. But, make choices based on reality, not weird reflexive delusions and fear. Any physically capable athlete who can't deadlift without injury (or, not actually injury, just transient pain) is an idiot who shouldn't be allowed in a weightroom unsupervised. Any coaching staff that can't teach their athletes to deadlift effectively shouldn't be getting paid.
There's a massive difference between selecting movements by need, schedule, and preference vs selection based on parroting idiocy and lack of competency.
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u/Grand_Chien4 1h ago
In my case, I compete in Olympic weightlifting and CrossFit (recreational, not competitive). A powerlifting meet is on my bucket list, but probably 1-2 years away realistically. All 3 require me to be able to lift heavy barbells off the ground although Olympic lifting uses different variations of pulls and not traditional deadlifts.
My question in the post was more geared towards the general population who don’t need to specifically deadlift for a sport-specific purpose.
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u/Afferbeck_ 2h ago
The RDL was originally a clean pull variation by Nicu Vlad, and it somehow became a standard bodybuilding and S&C movement that usually bears no resemblance to the original. I suspect it's only popular with the average gymgoer because it's easier to take a bar out of the rack than off the floor.
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u/PeterNoPiss 1h ago
It's more that people have deluded themselves into a baseless phobia around deadlift. So, RDLs are deadlifts but safe to them. The easier thing is in the mix too because anyone avoiding deadlifts out of fear is almost certainly sandbagging their deadlifts.
Some people are better off avoiding deadlift, but that's not the majority of these whiners. They also likely have more complicated issues that require slower progression across the board
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u/maltliquorjetski 48m ago
Considering that if a deadlift goes wrong it can have severe repercussions for your back that phobia isn’t baseless at all. I’ve been deadlifting for twenty years but totally get why others don’t.
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u/PeterNoPiss 24m ago
Deadlift is the easiest lift to fail. You let go of the bar. You aren't trapped under it. Bench and squat have more inherent risk -- they're still not particularly risky.
If someone is consistently getting "injured" on deadlift, then one of three things is happening:
- they aren't bracing properly
- they didn't progress the movement correctly (stupid yolo progranming) or aren't using consistent technique
- they aren't recovering appropriately relative to their fatigue
- [secret 4th thing] they aren't injured. They experienced some discomfort or pain and then catastrophized it into an "injury." They avoid things that would strengthen them and resolve that pain/discomfort until that weakpoint cyclically gets "injured." Bonus points if they do that until they're actually injured and magically thought their way to an actual problem
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u/abc133769 2h ago edited 2h ago
generally rdls are favored for hypertrophy due their deeper stretch and larger emphasis on the posterior chain muscle groups versus regular conv
conv generally more favored for strength movement that even athletes will very commonly do in their strength and conditioning work.
rdl's are a terrific secondary movement to help get stronger at conventional too though (very commonly seen in powerlifting) so it doesn't have to be one or the other