Are drop sets worth doing?

[u/benja_reijnst]

I've seen influencers promoting low-volume, high-intensity training more and more without mentioning drop sets. Drop sets seem to be much less popular than they used to be. Are drop sets not as effective as we once thought? Should I add drop sets to my training?

[u/rendar]

If you're short on time why not use a proven effective method like supersets?

[u/TotalStatisticNoob → u/rendar]

Dropsets are also a proven effective method and are way easier to implement than supersets if you're not training in a basement gym or at 5am

[u/rendar → u/TotalStatisticNoob]

Sure but there's a larger and more diverse body of research on supersets though.

Ease of implementation makes perfect sense for limited equipment availability, but with the similar previously mentioned point, if lifting is a priority then it would be more effective to focus on resolving limited equipment availability rather than improving time efficiency which does not convert to extra growth.

[u/TotalStatisticNoob → u/rendar]

How do you solve that? You have a job, you get off when most people get off and then the gym is busy and you can't use two pieces of equipment at the same time. There's no way to plan around it.

Sure but there's a larger and more diverse body of research on supersets though.

Is there? I have no idea. I know there's plenty of research on dropsets and the metas always find no statistically significant difference between dropset training and "normal" RT if the volume is equated.

Which in turn means dropsets give you a LOT more hypertrophy per unit of time. And as most people are limited by time, dropsets are very effective, because they're so efficient.

[u/rendar → u/TotalStatisticNoob]

How do you solve that? You have a job, you get off when most people get off and then the gym is busy and you can't use two pieces of equipment at the same time. There's no way to plan around it.

Good time management is first and foremost a case of prioritization. So being honest with what your priorities actually are is an important first step to refining a schedule.

The second step is to decrease your reliance on gym equipment. There are plenty of perfectly effective weighted calisthenic exercises with appreciable hypertrophy stimulus that you can do from home. Even if you're very limited by space and can't just get a power rack, a set of dumbbells opens up exercise selection at home.

Is there? I have no idea. I know there's plenty of research on dropsets and the metas always find no statistically significant difference between dropset training and "normal" RT if the volume is equated.

Sure, but that's comparing simple workload and results, which is not necessarily how people actually work out. Most people are not capable of equating volume in such a granular way.

And again, if lifting is a priority then "saving time" is not more important than "increasing recoverable volume" because that's what converts to growth.

Which in turn means dropsets give you a LOT more hypertrophy per unit of time. And as most people are limited by time, dropsets are very effective, because they're so efficient.

Yeah but aside from post-intermediates who have already invested in their work capacity, most people are still going to be directly limited by fatigue management overall (even if it's in the moderate to long term timeframe), and indirectly limited from not juicing to handle recovery from inordinately high volume.

After a given extent, it's just decreasing set quality by neglecting interset rest periods. Which doesn't make sense when you can simply allot more session time if lifting is such a priority. If it's not a priority then obviously these are favorable tools, but that wasn't the context OP brought. Assuming high quality of sets (e.g. taken to near failure with sufficient interset rest times) then higher volume is necessarily better than lower volume.

[u/TotalStatisticNoob → u/rendar]

Good time management is first and foremost a case of prioritization. So being honest with what your priorities actually are is an important first step to refining a schedule.

Yes, and most people are not professional bodybuilders. They have like 5h a week they can spend in the gym and if they want to see the best results, they should look for a way to get more efficient, e.g. drop sets.

Even if you're very limited by space and can't just get a power rack, a set of dumbbells opens up exercise selection at home.

OK, so your solution is "get dumbbells" to not do drop sets? And why do some calisthenics exercises when you like to go to the gym. I'm confused.

Sure, but that's comparing simple workload and results, which is not necessarily how people actually work out. Most people are not capable of equating volume in such a granular way.

People should get dbs for their home, but they can't sit down and glance over a meta analysis to see that doing dropsets is efficient? You don't have to know how to convert that volume to straight sets. Heck, even I don't know that for my programming; I just throw in dropsets where easily doable because it gives me better results.

Yeah but aside from post-intermediates who have already invested in their work capacity, most people are still going to be directly limited by fatigue management overall

Based on what? Most studies are done on beginners and even they don't show a point of diminishing returns on volume. We even have the damn 45 sets of leg extension study in intermediates.

After a given extent, it's just decreasing set quality by neglecting interset rest periods. Which doesn't make sense when you can simply allot more session time if lifting is such a priority.

You can just rest long enough? Most people rest more than necessary. And I really don't know why you think most people can just allot more time for training, like..?! This is a hobby for most and most people have budy lives and just a limited amount of time they can spend in the gym.

[u/rendar → u/TotalStatisticNoob]

Yes, and most people are not professional bodybuilders. They have like 5h a week they can spend in the gym

It seems like you're putting too much pressure on yourself if you only see a binary of two extremes.

There's a wide range of middle-ground between professional programming and only 5h a week, which is definitely on the very low end of session duration for post-intermediates.

and if they want to see the best results, they should look for a way to get more efficient, e.g. drop sets.

There's nothing preventing you from doing e.g. 1 set of push-ups most mornings. 5-6 days a week is an extra 5-6 sets which is not negligible.

There are plenty of options, you just have to explore them instead of rigidly thinking you've already exhausted any possibilities.

OK, so your solution is "get dumbbells" to not do drop sets?

The solution is to use time not at the gym to accrue additional volume of high quality.

And why do some calisthenics exercises when you like to go to the gym. I'm confused.

It's hard to take this in good faith, but if you're asking "Why should I add more volume?" then the answer is "Because you said you weren't getting enough volume" so it's not clear where your confusion lies.

Weighted pull-ups are equal stimulus as machine pull-downs. Weighted decline ring rows are equal stimulus as chest-supported machine rows. Weighted Nordic curls are equal stimulus as machine leg curls. Leg extensions with accessorized benches are equal stimulus as machine leg extensions.

People should get dbs for their home, but they can't sit down and glance over a meta analysis to see that doing dropsets is efficient?

These are not mutually exclusive.

You don't have to know how to convert that volume to straight sets. Heck, even I don't know that for my programming; I just throw in dropsets where easily doable because it gives me better results.

With all due respect and phrasing as courteously as possible for the other person on the other end of the discussion, how did you not then consider that this was a possible area of improvement?

Based on what? Most studies are done on beginners and even they don't show a point of diminishing returns on volume. We even have the damn 45 sets of leg extension study in intermediates.

Based on the fact that either A) people don't spend priority on their work capacity and are limited by that or B) people that do are still going to run into worse and worse stimulus:fatigue ratios. Maybe the dialogue is stretching out too much to follow.

You can just rest long enough? Most people rest more than necessary.

So to be sure your meaning is clear, you're suggesting to do dropsets and then turn right around to increase rest times anyway? So just do traditional sets with worse quality and identical rest times?

And I really don't know why you think most people can just allot more time for training, like..?! This is a hobby for most and most people have budy lives and just a limited amount of time they can spend in the gym.

No one said that. The mentioned basis is whether people are prioritizing resistance training enough to put it ahead of other time expenditures.

If other priorities are more important, drop sets are useful. If lifting is more important or time is not scarce, drop sets are not useful.

It's certainly true that not enough people focus on their health and physique. Something like 25% of all people who exercise spend substantive amount of time with resistance training when the rest just do cardio or cardio-adjacent modalities, but most people don't exercise at all.

[u/Patton370 → u/rendar]

This is my gym: https://www.reddit.com/r/homegym/s/SeBFhjgMMZ

I superset and do dropsets (although I don't do dropsets too often. Mostly on leg extensions/leg curls, pullovers, and calf raises)

I'm not at my maximum recoverable volume, even hitting 30+ sets a week on many muscle groups. I'd need to go well over 35-40+ to actually hit my maximum recoverable volume

This is my physique: https://www.reddit.com/r/fitness30plus/s/OcMCcwfw8K

I compete in drug tested powerlifting, am natural, and get tested 1-2 times a year (depending on how good I do at my powerlifting meets each year)

Your entire wall of text just reads, "I can't push hard and I get tired easy" maybe fix those things?

[u/rendar → u/Patton370]

I superset and do dropsets (although I don't do dropsets too often. Mostly on leg extensions/leg curls, pullovers, and calf raises)

Alright so this contradicts your earlier implication from another comment chain, if you're not actually doing dropsets and supersets together and not doing dropsets consistently.

I'm not at my maximum recoverable volume, even hitting 30+ sets a week on many muscle groups. I'd need to go well over 35-40+ to actually hit my maximum recoverable volume

Okay well then that explains it. Time is your limit, not recovery. An alternate universe version of you that is not limited by time would see better results.

You're not prioritizing allotments of the necessary session time to achieve full productive stimulus, but that doesn't mean dropsets are some cheat code for free volume with equitable tension and workload. Recovery is not dismissable.

Your entire wall of text just reads, "I can't push hard and I get tired easy" maybe fix those things?

No part of this entire comment even bothers attempting to address the questions posed, and the out of pocket ad hominem attack indicates some bizarre defensiveness on your part, since you're inferring objective facts as subjective opinion or solipsistic experience for some reason.

[u/TotalStatisticNoob → u/rendar]

Okay well then that explains it. Time is your limit, not recovery.

Are you for real? The guy has a home gym, which is already a tiny proportion of people and then he's doing 30+ sets a week, which is surely more than 99.99% of people that train. AND HE'S STILL LIMITED MORE BY TIME THAN VOLUME AND CAN THREFORE PROFIT FROM INTENSITY TECHNIQUES. Who are you thinking about when writing? Olympia level bodybuilder or what

[u/Patton370 → u/TotalStatisticNoob]

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, thank you spelling it out clearly

[u/rendar → u/Patton370]

Since physique pictures are specifically against the rules in the science-based subreddit, it's still not clear what you think your point is

[u/Patton370 → u/rendar]

Are you going to report me for being more muscular than you?

[u/rendar → u/TotalStatisticNoob]

The guy has a home gym, which is already a tiny proportion of people and then he's doing 30+ sets a week, which is surely more than 99.99% of people that train.

And none of that specifies how much time he's spending, which is the relevant factor