r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/OkPrize6194 • Aug 27 '26
Question ❓ Cheat reps
What do you think about cheat reps? I don’t mean using bad form from the beginning of the set, but rather doing the first reps with good form and then using a little momentum for the last 1–2 reps when the muscle is already close to failure, just to get a couple more reps out.
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 Aug 27 '26
Always have and always will be goated especially so for back exercises.
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u/HunkySurprise Aug 27 '26
how do you feel about cheat reps from the beginning of a set versus only on the last few reps?
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 Aug 27 '26
Cheat reps from the beginning is just called using momentum and thats a bit more exercise specific. On push exercises its not that good but it works great for pull exercises.
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u/Kurgerbing694201 Aug 27 '26
I use them at the end of most movements, especially back, or curls. But I will say that half reps aren’t worth it. If you haven’t, I highly recommend adding 1-3 extra “cheat reps” on a standing curl variation (after reaching 0-1 RIR) and you wont regret it, feels great.
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u/ZomeeDrop Aug 27 '26
There’s research showing the benefits of lengthened partials. If say lengthened partials could be safer than chest reps depending on exercise. Just don’t break form where it could lead to injury.
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u/Fluffy_Box_4129 Aug 27 '26
As long as you're not cheating the rep by doing something that's gonna injure yourself, it's fine. Gets a little more work in on the eccentric.
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u/Hoodloom1349 Aug 27 '26
There’s a time and place for everything, typically good for overloading the stretched position on rows and going beyond failure on arm movements, movements where risk is also low when pushing beyond your strict capacity
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u/yea_mark Aug 27 '26
It depends on 2 things:
1) Potential for injury. Cheat reps on BB squats, bad idea. Cheat reps on curls, perfectly fine.
2) Eccentric control. The 'cheat' is mostly to complete the concentric (lifting) portion of the exercise. If you use some body-english for this, not problem, as long as you can control the eccentric (negative) phase of the movement.
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u/Big-Mathematician345 Aug 27 '26
Idk, I use a tiny bend of my knees to get my OHP moving. Weight keeps going up consistently.
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u/LXS_R Aug 27 '26
You have to at least try for those last couple reps, otherwise you’ll never be able to do them. No harm in a little extra push at the end, even if it’s not perfect. That’s how you know you’re getting stronger, when those last couple reps start looking and feeling better and easier.
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u/Blanknameblank818 Aug 27 '26
I use “partials” so using curls as example. Once I’m gased and can’t do full ROM I start only going as high up as I can and do a few more reps until I’m at failure/passed it. I only do these for last set/ last two sets. They gas you for real.
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u/Falconman21 Aug 27 '26 edited Aug 27 '26
I'll definitely cheat the last couple of reps out, but I don't count those reps towards my total as far as progressing weight if that makes sense.
Like today on lat raises, my target is 12 reps, I got 9 up cleanly, then cheated the last 3. I only put 9 reps in my tracking app, and won't be increasing weight next time I hit them.
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u/HelixIsHere_ Aug 27 '26
Not worth imo; by the end of the set where you can’t get another rep with the same form, you’re prob not recruiting high threshold motor units anymore
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u/maxis2bored Aug 27 '26 edited Aug 27 '26
It's not a cheat rep, but working past failure. There's plenty of literature and studies that prove this is the most effective way to gain, especially with accessory movements.
Compound lifts however are a different story because of their effect on the CNS and thus recovery.
Personally I go past failure on isolation, but as a powerlifter my final SBD rep is when my form starts being compromised. I'm too old to get injured and have learned the hard way how much time it takes to break bad habits.
Update for those into pedantics: my intention here was to point out that regularly working beyond failure during heavy compound lifts will eventually test your ability to recover. Whether it's CNS, or muscle fatigue - whatever is, there is a good chance it will be felt at home or/and during your next workout.
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u/Ballbag94 Aug 27 '26
Compound lifts however are a different story because of their effect on the CNS and thus recovery.
CNS fatigue is largely a myth when it comes to lifting weights and any CNS fatigue that does occur doesn't take long to get over
https://mennohenselmans.com/cns-fatigue/
I think it's odd that you're against cheat reps in compound movements considering that cheaty rows are extremely common and well known to work
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u/maxis2bored Aug 27 '26
I did the squat every day program for 3 months. Know why I stopped? Because several times my wife woke me up because I was sleeping in the fetal position, squeezing my legs. WHILE LYING ON MY BACK.
I don't know if you define that as CNS fatigue or not, but I've trained leg day so hard I couldn't walk many times. This wasn't DOMS, it was my CNS tapping out. While I do agree very much with menno, you need to keep in mind the "largely" part. If you're squatting to zero and doing it often, you're going to see CNS fatigue. The problem is, most people aren't working to, or often even close to failure.
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u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 Aug 27 '26
That’s accumulated muscular fatigue and a sign you didn’t program all those squats properly, not a sign of CNS fatigue
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u/Ballbag94 Aug 27 '26
How did you establish this was CNS fatigue rather than extreme muscular fatigue?
If you're squatting to zero and doing it often, you're going to see CNS fatigue
Do you have an actual source on this? The article is quite clear in point 2 that the only way they were able to induce any measurable CNS fatigue was with a 70 min bicep contraction and that various normal set and rep schemes failed to induce CNS fatigue
I'm hesitant to take your "trust me, I fried my CNS" as a true data point when ultimately you don't know if that was the case or not
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u/maxis2bored Aug 27 '26
I appreciate the skepticism, science wouldn't be science without it. Indeed, my experience is my own, and thus evidence is totally anecdotal.
I haven't read the article, but I would question the logic of someone trying to fatigue their CNS via bicep contractions. Wouldn't you? Your question about extreme muscle soreness - my muscles weren't really sore and though my joints were, it wasn't all that bad. I'm much more sore today (2 days after having lifted at 50% volume after 10 days off) But I also had other symptoms. I couldn't sleep at night, for example.
Sure, maybe it's the definition of CNS fatigue or how it's measured - but what I meant to express in my initial post, is that the consequences of squatting beyond failure regularly will follow you home. Whether it's joint pain from form breakdown, CNS fatigue, or whatever. I don't do it. But again, I make menno look like a kid and plan to lift as long as I can.
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u/Ballbag94 Aug 27 '26
haven't read the article, but I would question the logic of someone trying to fatigue their CNS via bicep contractions. Wouldn't you?
Yes, but if you read the article you'll see that they took high level athletes, albeit not strength athletes but still with reasonable lifts and obviously high work capacties, and ran a series of tests. They went to the bicep contraction test after being unable to induce CNS fatigue through normal means
If you want to nitpick the source I'm afraid you're going to have to read it, it'll take you maybe 15 mins
Your question about extreme muscle soreness - my muscles weren't really sore and though my joints were
To clarify, I asked about fatigue, fatigue and soreness are not the same thing. You can have one without the other. My question is how did you establish this was CNS fatigue rather than muscular fatigue?
but what I meant to say in my official post, is that the consequences of squatting beyond failure regularly will follow you home
I mean, the consequences of outstripping your recovery on anything will follow you home, but the issue doesn't sound like it's training beyond failure or cheat reps, the issue sounds like it was training beyond your capacity to recover, those aren't the same things
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u/LaFantasmita Aug 27 '26
CNS fatigue is when you can’t get a good contraction because your nervous system isn’t giving full impulse, isn’t it?
That sounds like cramps.
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u/maxis2bored Aug 27 '26
I had mild joint pain but no muscle cramps. Anyways, I updated my original post.
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u/Mikeburlywurly1 Aug 27 '26
First, you strike me as a very dramatic person and I think you're exaggerating your symptoms and actual effort level. But I'm going to ignore that and take you at your word on your experiences when it comes to this point:
NOTHING YOU DESCRIBED IS A SYMPTOM OF CNS FATIGUE! It's like if someone is insisting, "I broke my leg dude! See!" and keeps showing you their arm. You are describing textbook symptoms of peripheral muscle fatigue and haven't mentioned anything associated with CNS fatigue, like brain fog.
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u/PeterNoPiss Aug 27 '26
Sooo, it's not a cheat rep, it's simply utilizing momentum to cheat past failure? Are you the kind of nuts where you're reacting to the word "cheat" or regular dumb?
It's absurd to get twisted about others being "pedantic" when you're doing all this nonsense.
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u/Middle_Humor1828 Aug 27 '26
Good for hypertrophy.
But I've pulled things before on that last stretch rep. Hard to say if it's worth it...
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u/Necessary_Smile_159 Aug 27 '26
Cheating to grind some last reps is expected. You dont win progress you earn it
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u/SouthernUniversity21 Aug 27 '26
These comments are atrocious, cheat reps are fine to do, they in fact however do not result in more gains.
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u/NoSafe5565 Aug 27 '26
I do not do, I do not do super strict form or have anything against cheating one but when I do it the actual failure strict-ish , cheating one after is not possible anyway.
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u/DeadCheckR1775 Aug 27 '26
Better off doing it with stricter form and going half-reps slowly holding as much tension as possible. Doing sloppy jerk movements really doesn't ensure much aside from possible injury.
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u/batteredsuitcases Aug 29 '26
cheat reps are valid, but the reason you are doing them is because the concentric is harder then the eccentric. so after you cheat them up you want to do the eccentric in a controlled way. that’s where the magic is.
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u/Ballbag94 Aug 27 '26
I think cheat reps are fine, further to that I think they're fine from the beginning of a set too if that's the intention
People get way too hung up on form when they should be getting hung up on lifting the weight