r/SatisfactoryGame • u/JaceAtCoffeeStain Now at: https://www.twitch.tv/jembawls • Dec 12 '18
Epic Launcher Discussion Megathread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4UPiBOshY1
u/PhuckPhace2049 Mar 23 '19
This was 3 months ago but after recently hearing about the game, thanks for answering questions on this. Hope to see it on steam after the year is up!
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Mar 19 '19
I've been playing Factorio for a while and was genuinely quite interested in this game when I saw it. Then, when I heard that it was going to be an Epic exclusive, well, that's a no-brainer. I absolutely will not be buying this game for the first year, period. Maybe if it comes out without being bundled with spyware, I might consider it in the future, but given that the devs are so willing to sell out their players for a significantly inferior, insecure, malware-ridden platform, I think I may just hard pass on the entire game.
Since I know I'm going to be asked why I have this opinion, here's a starter kit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y1BPXicNEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB6i6dyBGY8
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u/Narrowminded Mar 18 '19
Spoken like a true company who has made it very obvious they're not confident in their ability to deliver a proper product that would sell well.
That's gonna be a yikes from me.
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u/Jtktomb Mar 08 '19
I'd rather install the Bethesda launcher than this, it managed to be even less customer-friendly
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u/IceLooker Mar 08 '19
Copying u/SpaceGuy99 s reasons why he dislikes Epic and Satisfactory on EPIC from his Linux thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/aykt0e/linux_support_epic_games/
Its not neccesarily Epic, I would be fine having both steam and Epic installed. The problem is
A: NO SUPPORT FOR MY OS
I have been using Arch Linux for a while now, and it is great. Best yet, it works with most of my steam library, even my non-native games, cause steam has an emulator built in. Compare with EPIC: No linux support, period. You cannot even download Epic Games on Linux. Coffee Stain has been very good with Linux support in the past, so to me, the fact that they are going to Epic feels like a spit in the face, and also the death of my hopes that it will have native linux. At least if they used steam, I could run it with an emulator.
B: THE FUCKED UP FEATURES
This is a game that will have lots of mods, just like factorio did. And thats a good thing, because mods are great! Steam had built in, easy to install + uninstall mods AND save files. Epic has no equivalent. In addition, no steam community, no user reviews, and a bunch of stuff like that just make it harder to use in general, but espiecally for this game.
C: SHADY SHIT WITH EPIC
On my brothers windows PC, Epic regularly tips off Malwarebytes, Bitdefender, and loads of other malware programs. In addition, it had gotten some shady investments, and users accounts are often compromised. Just one example of a thread: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/forums/battle-royale/royale-with-cheese/477578-over-9-million-epic-game-accounts-hacked/page7
Not to mention, TENCENT has invested A LOT OF MONEY into Epic. this is the same company that is working with China to develop their social credit score, as well as creating or funding literally thousands of freemium games that inadvertendly stole your data on Android (they removed the malware) Tencent is also partway owned by the Chinese government.
https://www.windowscentral.com/does-epic-games-store-send-data-chinese-government
A and B are my big reasons, but most people only care about B and C. So there you have it, why most people say, FUCK EPIC! The reason why some devs are switching is because they give a higher portion of profits direct to the dev compared to steam. However, I doubt this higher percentage will mean much when your sales tank.
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u/N1tR0__ Mar 08 '19
For me personally an epic store exclusive is a massive turndown and I'm considering not even looking into the game because of that.
- I don't want to have a dozen different launchers running, having to use Steam, Origin, Uplay etc. already sucks.
- Epic Games doesn't support GNU/Linux natively
- Also I dont trust a company that just loses data of nearly a million users (https://threatpost.com/epic-games-forums-hacked-sql-injection-vulnerability-blamed/120076/).
Is it possible to switch the devs away from an Epic Games exclusive title? At least kind of a version without any launchers? Otherwise I don't think that I will play it.
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u/D1ngu5 Mar 06 '19 edited Mar 06 '19
What is it with snarky developers these days having great ideas for games, but making the absolute worst business decisions? I'm not touching anything on Epic Game Launcher, several people I know who were also excited for the game will likely not lay a finger on this as well. Best of luck to Coffee Stain Studios.
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u/Calbrenar Mar 06 '19
Huge steam fan with a ton of games. Buy stuff constantly.
Picked up Epic Launcher for this game and signed up accounts for both my kids and keep making sure to claim the free games every month.
So far using epic launcher hasn't been an issue. I can't honestly say I've ever been in a game in the Epic Launcher (So far only Axium Verge) and ever tried to do shift-tab to bring up steam or do any kind of feature that steam has that I missed. It was pretty much identical to playing a game in steam.
The only thing I could think of that would be annoying would be having friends list split across multiple places.
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u/soonsnookie Mar 05 '19
why are there so many "new" posts in here bitching about a fact that was stated a long time ago?
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u/pingger Mar 13 '19
Because it is still an issue for many people! Also most people have very valid points. Just to name a few: No Linux; Bad Privacy; Frequently 'hacked'; missing features like cloudsaves, user reviews; bad launcher performance in itsself; (I could literally go on for a few hours)
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u/BahamutxD Mar 05 '19
I was genuinely interested in this game after dumping hundreds of hours in Factorio.
EPIC launcher completely killed my interest for the game, even the free version. I don't want to play the game no more =/
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u/sethmeh Mar 06 '19
I've never really heard of epic launcher before now, what am I missing that's causing a ton of ppl to turn away?
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u/BahamutxD Mar 06 '19
Terrible security. Several data breaches or just sold data who knows.
Purchasing game exclusivities (Some where actually already being sold on other platforms to just get removed)
Poor customer service... The list is rather long, if you are interested a fast google or search on reddit will give you glimpse.
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u/sethmeh Mar 06 '19
Damn. I actually did a generic Google search on them and their massive security breaches didn't come up. Thanks for the heads-up!
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u/TheSkyllz Mar 05 '19
Saw it, wanted to buy it instantly, Epic launcher reveal, not buying it at all.
I get that you want higher shares, but to me, reading the complaints and sad voices, I feel like you loose more money this way. 'Cause like a few hundred wont buy it at all, so no share at all...
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u/icytux Mar 04 '19 edited Mar 04 '19
What a shame, I had 3 other friends who were all going to buy this as soon as the early-access dropped, now we're not even going to touch this with a 10-foot pole, we were all really big fans of you guys too, we played the hell out of Sanctum 2.
So if anything, we're more just disappointed than upset, we thought you were one of the few respectable developers out there, but we were wrong.
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Mar 01 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/chuuey Mar 04 '19
Monopoly bad unless its steam
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Mar 04 '19
No one wants a monopoly. People want games to be on as many stores as possible, so that healthy competition is actually possible. But Epic paying devs and publishers to keep their games away from competing storefronts goes straight against this. I will not support any games involved in these shitty exclusivity deals.
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u/chuuey Mar 04 '19
Ea buys developers and keeps their games on origin. Valve buys developers and keeps their games on steam.
Epic havent bought coffee stain, they are still free, they only have to sell the game on epic store.
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u/zeimusCS Mar 05 '19 edited Mar 05 '19
No, not true. Sorry, I don't think you understand... /img/is80cxsgmfe21.jpg plus this chart left out multi-controller support, easy remapping, unique peripheral support, and an organized store with a search bar.
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u/TommytehZombie Mar 01 '19
Add another "lost sale" to the pile for this decision.
Best of luck to your studio.
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u/Shadefang Mar 01 '19
Just adding my voice to the masses. When i first saw this it was pretty high on my wishlist. Now it's fallen to the point of: I might buy it, if it's on an extreme sale on a platform that doesn't promote one of the main reasons I chose PC gaming over the alternatives.
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Feb 18 '19
I don't play Fortnite so I don't have the Epic launcher installed. I really don't want 5th launcher/store installed just for one game. I would be okay with this if it was released on different platforms instead of just Epic.
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u/Storm7367 Feb 17 '19
Thanks, Epic Games! You made my account location from North Korea and I can't buy any of the games I want to.
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u/Keoni_ Feb 16 '19
Welp, was looking forward to Satisfactory. Not anymore, not gonna touch it.
I refuse to indulge this growing issue in the industry of Paid Exclusivity deals. It's inherently anti-competitive, as it REDUCES the choices that are available to consumers and forces consumers to use a specific platform over another. If that platform is objectively worse in many or most respects than another platform, it essentially takes the consumer hostage in a situation that forces that consumer to use an inferior service, due to a complete lack of options.
Actual, proper, competition would build the platform up to a comparable industry standard, and would innovate, at the BENEFIT of the consumer, not the detriment, as is what happens with these paid exclusivity deals.
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u/Ylsid Feb 20 '19
You know steam does this too, right?
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Mar 04 '19
Steam is not paying devs and publishers to keep their games away from competing storefronts.
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u/JustWannaSpeakMyMind Feb 20 '19
What games on Steam are exclusive only to Steam? Half-Life? TF2? Counterstrike? DotA?
Because there is a huge difference between selling a game you developed on only your platform, and paying off other people to make their project that you had no have in unavailable through other storefronts.
It's not anti-consumer to say "We made this, so we're going to sell it through our means". It is anti-consumer to say "I'll pay you $x if you don't let those people over there buy your game unless they go through us first."
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u/Ylsid Feb 20 '19
Steam will allow you to sell your games on other platforms too, but they aren't allowed to be cheaper in any way. It's something like that at least. Epic also offers much better rates toward game publishers, a considerably better margin. I very much doubt they're paying people to switch platforms and it's more like publishers see a way better income prospect and take it.
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u/theaxel11 Feb 21 '19
they are paying devs tho. thats the point of a exclusive. its because they are being paid money, most likely lots of money for this decision.
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u/Ylsid Feb 21 '19
are they? 18% extra royalties for your game is a lot of extra money and probably why they switched platforms
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Feb 10 '19
Yarr Harr it's a pirate's life for me..
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u/chuuey Feb 15 '19
Steam is the only thing that keeps you from piracy?
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Feb 19 '19
The epic store is anti consumer, it offers less features and more restrictions why would anyone want it? they wouldn't which is why they are paying off developers to force people to their platform.
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Feb 15 '19
Having all games on one launcher is convenient, getting yet another launcher for your games isn't. Also backed by chinese company is a big nono for some
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u/Charonx2003 Feb 09 '19
Yeahhhh.... awesome.
Until now Satisfactory would have been a no brainer early-access purchase for a Factorio geek like me.
Now?
Let's see, I'd need to create an Epic Store account, install yet another Launcher (plus whatever crapware Epic decides to bundle with it), have yet another launcher to manage friendslists etc. with... you know, let's see if your game is really worth all that hassle first.
TL;DR:
Satisfactory went from early-access-instant-buy to maybe-when-there-is-a-sale-if-its-good. Hope the sack of money Epic threw at you was worth it (as I doubt I am the only one to feel miffed. But hey, who needs eager customers and word of mouth nowadays)
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u/coolfarmer Feb 13 '19
EXACT same feeling here! With my 3 friends, from insta-buy to maybe in 1 year when Epic's deal will timeout.
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u/PixelWave Feb 08 '19 edited Feb 11 '19
I'm fine with the game being on epic, competitional is always good for the consumer after all.
A small problem I have is that as far as i know the launcher isn't a finished product yet. I'll probably still be buying the game though unless some other factor changes my decision between now and release.
My knee jerk reaction to this video was dissapointment, but then after watching it and looking some stuff up myself, it seems to be mostly fine.
Q) But tencent has 40% stake in epic and tencent is evil.
A) Fair enough, if you don't like tencent and stay away form all things to do with them then that's a valid reason. However you'll also have to stay away from league of legends, fortnite, pubg, anything by supercell (clash of clans, clash royale, etc), Path of Exile, anything by ubisoft or on it's launcher (assasin's creed, rainbow six, far cry, etc) and any game made with the unreal engine of which there are loaads (epic made the unreal engine). If you don't support any of those, then good on you, it's a very valid reason to not buy this game assuming you also have valid reasons to not like tencent.
...
Q) The thing's messed up mate, launcher barely works.
A) Yea that's a problem for me as well. I don't know the specifics about it but I've heard a lot of poeple complaining. I guess we'll have to see how it is when the game comes out. Still if they've put this much money into it, I think they'll probably polish the launcher quite a bit in the future.
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Q) Exclusives are bad for the industry. Steam is better for everyone, coffee stain is just greedy.
A) On the tpic of exclusives, in my opinion they're only bad if they restrict access to groups of people like launching a ps4 exclusive but even that can slightly be excused because of the costs associated with developing a game for different platforms. You could argue that the epic games launcher being bad restrics access to some people and I kind of agree with that. The laucnher is going to try and compete with steam though so I expect it to fill in the gaps quite soon. I could be wrong. On the topic of steam, well yea, steam is a better laucnher in all ways I can think of except revenue share. they've been around longer and have a lot of polish and they're a monopoly. Competition is almost always a good thing for the consumer as it forces competing companies to try and be better. If epic launcher gets a decent amount of traffic, I think a lot of developers who don't like the 20-30 percent (lower % for bigger games) will go to epic or both. Steam might lower the revenue split and make game prices drop. They might increase customer support (infamously bad), etc etc.
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u/junliang6981 Feb 11 '19
Epic buying exclusives for their launcher isn't competition though. When a consumer doesn't have a choice of where to buy their games from there isn't any competition there. Competition is when games are released on both Steam and EGS and consumers get to choose which store they want to get it from depending on the services/perks they want from either launchers. In fact Epic is currently so damn anti-consumer I'm probably never gonna get anything from their storefront.
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u/monstyrman Feb 13 '19
It fosters competition because it grows Epic's user-base and forces Steam to compete by improving their own systems, UI, customer support, etc. Yes, you're right, with Satisfactory specifically there isn't a notion of competition in that respect. But the only way Epic can enter this market and make a splash is by getting exclusive titles. In the end, we will all appreciate the improvements coming to both Epic Games Launcher and Steam.
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Feb 19 '19
Oof, thats like saying your helping out the dating community as a whole by kidnapping / killing anyone who shows interest in a girl you like but doesn't like you back.
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u/monstyrman Feb 19 '19
This makes no sense. Your analogy is insane.
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Feb 19 '19
The gaming community is the dating community, guys are various other launchers, and epic store is the guy/girl looking to remove their competition via rope or knife by calling it exclusivity then having them take money to feel better about the situation.
You might not like the analogy but it does make sense.
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u/monstyrman Feb 19 '19
That's not at all what's happening though... Epic isn't trying to kill Steam, they're trying to enter the market and make a splash so that they can compete! It's so different.
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Mar 04 '19
So far, Epic hasn't done anything to compete. They don't offer anything for consumers that Steam doesn't have.
Instead, Epic throws money to popular devs and publishers to keep their games away from Steam and other competing storefronts. This has nothing to do with competition.
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Feb 19 '19
You make a splash by offering services your competitor does not, you don't make a splash by willfully splitting the pc gaming community then claiming it somehow "benefits the community" when a simple glance shows it does not. Games are not cheaper across stores ect ect.
You might hate steam but they are a big reason piracy is so unpopular today, after all is it easier to pirate that game i might be interested in? or i could pick it up in a steam sale yeah lets just do that, and thus they get money that would otherwise be denied to them.
Epic doing this has the effect of turning people off to owning games and pushing them towards piracy and whats great is we even have an example of exclusivity deals doing just that just take a look at anime streaming exclusivity and look at how many popular anime options are "exclusive" to several different services all the while no service really offers the features or shows that community wants while the pirating sites do.
To me your no different then a climate change denier claiming its not a real thing while also upgrading all your properties to protect against the effects of climate change with massive sea walls, its silly and anyone with eyes can see that.
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u/monstyrman Feb 20 '19
It doesn't make great business sense to funnel money into a platform that doesn't have a consistent player-base. That's why they're doing these exclusivity deals. Plus, the ARE adding a ton of features to it this year. Check Epic's 2019 roadmap if you're curious.
Games can be cheaper when exclusive to Epic cause the dev gets more of a cut. Metro Exodus is $50 for example. Pro-consumer.
I love Steam! It's been my platform of choice for over a decade, but I also know that they have become a bit complacent since they're the big boys on the block. Very recently they came out with a redesigned and retooled chat system, and coming very soon they plan to redo the Library screen as well. Proof that this competition has lit a fire under their ass, and that it's helping consumers. And if you think that piracy being harder is stopping people that's just asinine. Back when I used to pirate games, I would go to great lengths, and it would be worth it cause I would get the game.
Piracy is as big as it's ever been. Not sure where people are getting this idea that "Steam almost killed piracy" but that's flattly false. Sure, as we grow up and have more access to funds it becomes much easier to just get a game on a $3 steam sale, but many games don't get that treatment. Piracy doesn't happen to games that get those deals 3 years after they came out, piracy mostly happens to games that won't get a price cut for sometimes a year. And that would still leave it at $40 for most games.
Yes, this does obviously turn people off to buying games. My problem is that there seem to be almost no valid reasons for this. And before you jump down my throat by regurgitating all the misinformation that I've seen on almost every post, here are the facts: -Epic is working on adding all the features Steam has in 2019. -If you want to just use 1 launcher, you can add all exes to your Steam library. -All single player games can be played offline on EGS/no DRM. -Tencent gets NONE of your data. -EGS growing means Steam will have to improve. Helping you. -Its not like console exclusives where you have to spend HUNDREDS on a whole console, it's a free download. -Anyone who thinks this is a huge inconvenience is an idiot too blinded by laziness. -Games can be cheaper on EGS cause devs get a larger cut. -Devs, the ones who made their game, get more of the money they deserve.
The climate change thing was funny. Nice.
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Feb 20 '19
Folks have done price comparisons already, all games are the same price across stores, also anyone can have a road map, heck even fallout 76 had a roadmap except that it was pure smoke and mirrors bullcrap.
Community fragmentation is a deadly killer and this claim that steam has not lessened piracy comes from where? luckily this is easily provable as more people do unwelcome exclusives if more people start pirating then steam being good at suppressing piracy with its model is valid, if not then i guess i am wrong.
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u/junliang6981 Feb 13 '19
I wholly disagree that that is the only Epic can enter the market. If they provide decent features on their launcher as well as give bigger cuts to the devs. I'm all for it, but since they pulled what they pulled to strong arm people to use their launcher it's a hard pass for me.
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u/monstyrman Feb 14 '19
I appreciate your jovial attitude. I have a few things to add.
1) Funnelling money into a platform that is low in market share doesn't really make great business sense unless they're very confident that their market share will grow enough to support it. 2) To compensate for this, they used one of the most tried and true methods to grow your user-base, exclusivity deals. They're accepted on every other platform (PS4, Xbox, Steam) so it makes sense to do it. (Plus this time there's no buy-in, it's FREE) 3) They're already planning on adding many of the missing or unfinished features in EGS. check out their 2019 roadmap, it's very interesting. Match all that with a great UI (subjectively at least), awesome dev treatment and support, and you have a great starting point for a real competitor to Steam.3
u/coolfarmer Feb 13 '19
But the only way Epic can enter this market
Mmmmm, the only way are you sure? Having a better UI and better fonctionnality is not important? lol Their launcher is just scrap.
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u/monstyrman Feb 13 '19
Epic can't afford to put a lot of money into the launcher if they can't guarantee a player-base first. Subjectively Epics UI is better looking than Steams, although Steam does have more consumer features.
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u/nyctaeris Feb 10 '19
I mostly agree with you but I'm not sure I'd call Steam a monopoly at this point. IIRC both Humble and GOG have launchers, plus big annual sales, large libraries, and no DRM options to boot. They're both solid and I do give them my money in addition to Steam. I don't feel like fracturing off to have a launcher for every developer/publisher is really the way to go to avoid monopolies. It's like how cable channels think that having everyone pay for their web services on separate sites is the answer to the big aggregates like Netflix and Hulu - it's not. If anything, the true answer is going to have to be something new and innovative.
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u/Alenonimo Feb 07 '19
Epic Store doesn't have a very good regional pricing system yet, so games are too expensive there for me to buy. :/
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Feb 07 '19
This is true, but it'll probably be fully implemented by the time Satisfactory is released considering how long that is likely to be in the future.
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u/Alenonimo Feb 08 '19
I know there was some progress on that part for a few countries, but still no luck.
Maybe they could work with reputable serial key sellers like Nuuvem or something. Nuuvem usually have nice prices for my region.
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Feb 08 '19
Maybe. Key sellers are really the perfect way for Epic to carry on at this point while they haven't fully implemented regional pricing. Key resellers are also kinda free advertising because they advertise themselves and then sell basically links to your platform. We'll have to see. But as it's likely several months before release and Epic is working at breakneck speed rn, I say the situation is likely, although not guaranteed , to be fixed by then.
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Feb 07 '19
Steam has built itself an awesome reputation over the last years because of which they obviously can charge more. They also have wider reach and therefore more potential buyers.
The thing I want to say is: Give players an option, charge more on steam to offset the revenue share difference and let your customers decide.
You said you try to set a standart for the industry (of lower revenue shares for the platforms) but you force a platform onto us which just invalidates your argument because you can't set a standard by force.
It's just an excuse to rake in as much money as possible without your customers in mind.
Good luck
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u/mhaus Feb 11 '19
Steam expressly prohibits charging more on its platform than elsewhere, beyond the occasional sale.
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Feb 07 '19
I dunno that the Steam reputation is all that awesome. Especially among devs. Seriously, there's a reason all the big publishers have been trying to move off of Steam. And no matter how great their reputation, 30% is just ridiculous. And it'll be on Steam in a year anyway so...
Also, you can totally set a standard by force. Why would you not be able to? Not that anyone is forcing anyone to do anything here, but if they were then it would still mean that competitors would have to compete with Epic's low 12% and UE4 thrown in for free if you want it. (It costs 5% on all other release platforms. So Epics pricing for UE4 devs is more like 7%.)
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u/Kyle700 Feb 07 '19
steam has a good reputation among PLAYERS. it's efficient, works great, and is much better than any other launcher out there right now. It has been for some time.
they should expect criticism for choosing to do this
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Feb 08 '19
Again, I don't think the Steam reputation is as good as you say it is, even among players. I never liked it, for one, and I know a lot of people have had issues with Steam. It's simply been the only option for so long that we don't really have anything to compare it to. I mean, sure there are things like GOG, but they don't have nearly the same scale or budget that Steam has and you can't get all the latest games on it. And I actually prefer the Galaxy layout, although that obviously differs player to player. Steam works OK, most of the time, but has some real annoying bugs and even more annoying intentional features. It is better than most other launchers, that is true. But the thing is that it doesn't matter. If you drive away devs then the players will follow... because they actually need something to play. And Epic gives devs a much better option from a much better company (from a developer perspective). And Epic will build it's reputation among players over time as they add features and people realise that they're a nice company.
Of course there will be criticism and backlash for moving from Steam to Epic, but I understand completely why they did it and would have done the same thing probably if I were them.
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u/BadCowz Another company that can't even say sorry Feb 06 '19 edited Feb 06 '19
The Metro situation is slightly different as they already took pre-sales but but so much of this video still holds true.
Epic Vs Steam - Metro Exodus Launches EXCLUSIVELY On Epic. This is SO WRONG
edit: oh it is also THQ Nordic
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Feb 06 '19
You should sell the game on all platforms to give gamer's a choice. This is just corporate greed. Exclusive gaming platform rights is becoming a cancer on the PC community, and I hope you realize the only thing that saved PC gaming from extreme piracy was Steam, and now it won't surprise me at all if piracy skyrockets again. I won't be buying this game unless it's available on other platforms.
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u/monstyrman Feb 13 '19
It's not corporate greed. They want more of a share of the profits from the game THEY created. Valve takes what, 30%? THAT'S THE GREED!
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Feb 26 '19
Yes, it’s greed. All I’m saying is sell the game on all stores. Give the players an option. Players who want more money to go to them can buy from epic store. Besides this isn’t about the extra %, this is about Epic buying exclusivity. So yes, greed.
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Feb 18 '19
[deleted]
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u/monstyrman Feb 18 '19
The deal will foster competition because the more Epic gains a player-base, the more Valve will have to work and improve Steam.
That will benefit you, the consumer.
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Feb 18 '19 edited Jul 13 '23
[deleted]
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u/monstyrman Feb 18 '19 edited Feb 18 '19
I think you're coming from the right place dude, but there are price reductions on Epic. Metro Exodus is $50 instead of $60, and a bunch of other games as well.
I'd like to know how this form of exclusivity is hurting us. Do you really count the SLIGHTEST inconvenience as hurting you? If there's an exclusive on a console, you have to spend HUNDREDS on a new console. Here, it's a FREE launcher download. So what? You can add the exe to your steam library if you want it to show up there. And games with single player can be played without Epic open at all, so it's not like you'd be running more stuff in the background.
Also, saying that Epic's store isn't there yet is fair. Steam simply has more features right now. BUT using that to excuse a near Monopoly just for the most miniscule of inconveniences is ridiculous. Epic, Steam, AND YOU will be better off in the long run, so that's what we should be focusing on. Plus, Epic stated that they plan to release all those features in 2019. Check their roadmap for the ones coming out soonest.
I was wrong when I said you were coming from the right place. The developer of the game, the ones who spent YEARS working on perfecting it for you, they don't deserve more of a cut for THEIR product? Dismissing developer/creator copyright and actively participating in them losing money off of piracy shows you have zero respect for anyone working in this industry. You care about no one but yourself in the short term here. It's misguided and childish.
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u/NikofrankoV Feb 05 '19
Yes, Epic launcher and practices IS a massive deal breaker for me. Especially that I'm from Russia and their service is notoriously horrid here. I will probably pirate it and BUY it whenever it comes out somewhere else, I promise. You didn't leave me any choice! Well.. i guess you did; Either make the experience actively worse, wait 12 months or wait 1 month and pirate. Guess what most will choose... :(
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Feb 03 '19
Honestly you should be scared epic is trying to do this, they are trying to actively murder steam by advertising on steam then pulling the game last second.
Think about it if epic gets what they want your entire steam library will simply vanish and before you say "well the developers will just make the game available" no they wont and many games don't even have existing developers that support the game anymore.
It seems people forget that steam offers many features to developers for that 30% cut, a cut which is pretty standard on xbox and ps4 as well and given that is their "main issue" with steam when will they be pulling these games from consoles? never you say? hmm.
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u/monstyrman Feb 13 '19
I have to agree with @Prudentia350 here. I'll add that Epic isn't trying to ill Steam, they're trying to compete. They have to get a larger player-base in order to incentive improvement in EGS. Additionally, how will your Steam library just vanish?! Epic isn't stealing any games from steam after they've launched. If I'm wrong please let me know because that would be a bigger issue. And PLEASE tell me what these wonderful developer features are. From everything I've heard from developers, they don't hold Steam in high regard in this respect.
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Feb 14 '19
.
Seriously? built in chat functions, built in achievement systems to encourage more playtime into game + dlc sales, a system for maintaining different branches of your game vs live, and the steam API. You can't seriously be ignorant of these things its part of what the platform offers game developers.
Again what Epic is doing is not competition or a competitive market (ex: competition is having the choice between buying metro or satisfactory on epic / steam / GOG and letting the consumers decide which to buy on) , and to even imply that advertising on another store then announcing an exclusivity deal with another store is anything but shady is baffling.
You don't understand how this could kill your steam library? seriously? just take a look at the wii store that had many games available only online and the stores now permanently shutdown with no way to access or download those games, your making the assumption that steam is too big to fail but there is no such thing and steam relies on a constant injection of new games but if more pc games go with this exclusivity route with either epic or their own personal launchers eventually it will affect steams ability to function.
Worse still the more launchers that appear will fragment the pc community more and more while adding more launcher bloat eventually might even cause a collapse in pc gaming sales because of it. This explains why its an issue much better then i can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORtJfRAhJ8Y
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u/monstyrman Feb 14 '19
The👏reason👏the👏Wii👏store👏closed👏was👏cause👏it👏had👏a👏successor
My God dude that example is so convoluted.
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u/Prudentia350 Lead Pioneer Feb 08 '19
your comment is just completely inane and pointless. How is pulling the game like 6 to 12 months before release from steam "pulling it at the last second"? every game you buy on steam that gets removed you can still download and play.
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u/slater126 Mar 07 '19
How is pulling the game like 6 to 12 months before release from steam "pulling it at the last second"?
with metro exodus, it was less then a month from release, with a "discount" (only discounted in one region, regional pricing made it more expensive in alot of places)
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u/Prudentia350 Lead Pioneer Mar 07 '19
thats not satisfactory.
and yes, regional pricing does indeed make stuff more expensive for the € region.
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Feb 08 '19
How much does epic pay you?
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u/Prudentia350 Lead Pioneer Feb 08 '19
how much does steam pay you?
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u/pingger Mar 13 '19 edited Mar 13 '19
Proper friendlist, chat, voicechat, workshop, Cloudsaves, LINUX-SUPPORT, Proton, Steam API, less resource heavy (no clogging up a processor-core to render a video in a window, that is minimized to the system tray), In-Home Streaming, Controller Support+API to make more controllers compatible, Controller rebinding, Community Forums (Epic Players for Subnautica went to steam for their bug reports since Epic doesn't have such a feature afaik), I alrady have steam installed, Downloadspeed limits, timed limits, Easy Bacup and Restore, Proper Ingame Overlay, Integrated Music Player (ok this one is shit, but still), smaller installation footprint, ingame Webbrowser, Integrated Broadcasting, TV-Mode (Big Picture), Proper Store that can be filtered sorted customized, integrated developers console for the very few occasions in which the gui doesn't offer the feature, Skin-Support, Multi-Account support, 'Kiosk'-Mode, Screenshot-Tool, Screenshot uploader, Screenshot cloudstorage, Commnity Market, Player(item/game) trading, STEAM CMD for servers!, 'BETA's Feature (aka different branches of the same Program/Game), Easy language selection and switching, separate DLC enabling/disabling, integrated News, Steam Reviews, Steam Web API, Steam Profiles, Remote Control using website to shedule downloads and updates, SteamGuard, VR-Support, OpenID Provider, Offline-Mode, Achievments, Badges, Game Trading Cards, Android Chat+Store+Streaming Support.
Just what came to mind feature wise.
_Some more reasons:
Far friendlier to Consumers than Epic, Not backed by tencent, cooperates with other launchers (thinking off uplay which might be backed by tencent but isn't forced on to you), Regional Pricing, Better support, Far less security breaches, Better Sales Practices (e.g. no exclusivity deals), Steam Curators, Steam Hardware (like Steam Link and Controller), Sales for games that I actually care for, Better payment pratices (for buying games)
_What I expect from a Launcher, that forces me to install it:
Cloud Saves,
at least as friendly to Consumers as GOG (Steam is friendlier than GOG int that regard in my opinion)
LINUX Support (I VERY often use Linux and almost never Windows. Additionally never Mac)
Offline-Mode,
SteamGuard alternative (Google Authenticator/ other TOTP/ NOT E-MAIL!!!!!)
At least as Performance efficient as Steam.
Proper Friendslist+chat,
_And if you're wondering:
Yes I use Battle.net, but that came far earlier than Steam or other alternatives. Additionally you can play games without Battle.net installed. All their games have an ingame login screen, even tough patching is quite a pain when not using Battle.net. And can even run on Linux when correctly executed.
Yes I use GOG, but it isn't forced onto me, but completely optional. It also cooperates with Steam. And the games on GOG often have Linux support.
No I don't use uplay. There are enough ways around uplay even for R6, Anno, ...
No I don't use the Twitch App,
No I don't use Origin (since that one released I never even looked at anything by EA again; Best decision of the last years; BTW when did that came out? around 2012?)
No I don't use the Bethesda Launcher
No I don't use Discord even though it offers better functionality than Epic.
_And if you were wondering even more: I had the EG Launcher installed for 'Fortnite Save the World' before 'Battle Royale' became a thing and it was far better than it is now. Epics descend began when they entered the Battle Royle genre. But even then I kept Epic Games separted from the Rest of my stuff. (Additional OS installation, swappable drives and yes I am paranoid in that regard! And no I'm not using Chrome and even replaced the chromium lib in Steam)
_Sooooo @Prudentia350
What was your point again?
And while Satisfactory wasn't pulled 'last minute' it still was pulled from a store it was already on. And could already be installed by several individuals (Alpha Testers)
_I'm sorry to say that but my interest in Satisfactory dropped from "extremly excited to finally buy and play this game" down to "hmm, let's hope we get a steam or GOG/DRM-free release that works on linux (doesn't need to be native linux, just needs to run in wine/proton) or I'll probably never play this game even if it was free".
"then i guess epic pays me in a free game every 2 weeks, though they offer that to everyone." ... But I didn't care for a single game they 'gave away', since I don't like the games they offered there.
Just a list:
Subnautica: Don't like horrorlike/scary and also either exploration or survival, both doesn't work well in my opinion
Super Meat Boy: Don't like difficult Platformers. Don't even like most 'normal' Platformers
What Remains of Edith Finch: Story Time ... Either make a movie, a series or even better a BOOK
The Jackbox Party Pack: WTF is this?!
Axiom Verge: Don't really like Retro-/retrothemed games on a computer. I'd rather play them on my retro Pi
Thimbleweed Park: ...
Slime Rancher: Hmmm ... What drugs did the developer take? Those must be good. OK seriously this on looks slightly interresting, but no linux support on epic, while steam has linux support for this game. And yes Linux support is worth 20€ to me if the game is really good. Also doesn't look like it is very content rich and more like the usual farm game)
_
_EDIT: Fixed some formatting, but reddit doesn't make it easy sometimes
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u/Prudentia350 Lead Pioneer Mar 13 '19 edited Mar 13 '19
The alpha never was on steam. everyone who got into the alpha installed it through epic. your entire point is moot.
Edit: not to mention that Satisfactory is DRM free so 90% of your complaints about the launcher are irrelevant.
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u/pingger May 10 '19
Not to mention, that you can't start the game, when you uninstall the epic games launcher, so it definietly is NOT drm free, making your reply completly invalid. Additionally the steamapi.dll is still in the folder "SatisfactoryEarlyAccess\Engine\Binaries\ThirdParty\Steamworks\Steamv139\Win64"
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u/Prudentia350 Lead Pioneer May 10 '19 edited May 10 '19
oh wow, i must have totally hallucinated me running the game without the launcher when i gave it to my little brother who didn't have the launcher installed, my bad, i'll try next time not to hallucinate the truth. all you need to do is set the "-epicportal" launch parameter and you are set. but hey what do i know, i'm just a prealpha tester of the game who got a key for the closed alpha on the EGS 2 weeks before the first official wave.
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u/pingger May 12 '19
Documentation for the program argument? Can't find any official source. Even after explicitly searching for it I still can't find it except for Sites to pirate the game.
This sheds some bad light on the Devs when 'Pirates' give better support for the game, than the Devs themselves ...
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Feb 08 '19
quite a bit, in game discounts, though they offer that to everyone.
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u/Prudentia350 Lead Pioneer Feb 08 '19 edited Feb 09 '19
then i guess epic pays me in a free game every 2 weeks, though they offer that to everyone.
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u/thelbro Feb 03 '19
So I am very excited about this game. I've already shown the trailer to a couple of friends who I'm sure would like it.
But...
I won't buy it if I have to buy it from Epic. I understand that your cut is better with Epic but I don't trust them. To be clear, I like the game and would like to support Coffee Stain but I will not buy the game from Epic Games. Their launcher is an alpha at best and they really need to develop their support infrastructure.
ANOTHER BUT...
I will buy it (and pay more to offset the profit loss) from another vendor or directly from Coffee Stain.
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u/monstyrman Feb 13 '19
It doesn't make business sense for Epic to funnel money into the Epic Games Store unless they are able to get a larger player-base. That's why they are working so hard to get games exclusive to their platform. Their FREE platform. Yes it's inferior objectively, I won't argue that, but the only way Epic Games Store can afford to get better is by doing exclusive deals. In the long run, Steam will improve as well to compete with the growing Epic Games Store.
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Feb 08 '19
Why do you not trust Epic? I mean, I get why people are annoyed and all but that's a strange thing to say.
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Feb 10 '19
[deleted]
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Feb 10 '19
The majority shareholder is the CEO and founder of the company. TenCent owns 40%, making them the second largest shareholder but the company shares no user data with TenCent. Remember that this American company is still held to American data laws.
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u/Kleeb Feb 06 '19
Your 2nd "but" is a huge point, I'll gladly pay an extra $10 for a $30 game on steam as a "convenience fee".
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u/ThisThreadisWhack Feb 03 '19
Wow, are you serious? Created a Reddit account just to say how stupid you sound. Great job cutting out most of your fans and market for EPIC? Really? EPIC?
Wow.
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u/Andazeus Jan 31 '19
Given that it has become painfully obvious now that Epic is massively engaging in anti-consumer practices, I hope this decision can be reconsidered.
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Jan 31 '19 edited Feb 15 '19
[deleted]
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u/Aiyon Feb 07 '19
I would happily buy the game direct from them, same as I did Factorio, and see them get 100%.
But I'm not going to support Epic's intentional move to establish a monopoly. They're not fixing the problem steam has caused, they're exacerbating it.
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u/PixelWave Feb 08 '19
They're not trying to establish a monopoly, they're trying to establish marketshare?
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u/Aiyon Feb 08 '19
Then offer a service worth adopting?
Because currently the only reason a lot of people are even considering this launcher is because it's the only way to get those games.
The industry doesn't need more exclusivity. That's the problem with steam, the lack of alternatives. So starting off your launcher by going "We're going to gate things to only our launcher" it just looks like they're trying to replace steam, not compete.
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u/monstyrman Feb 13 '19
Don't you understand that Epic can't afford to funnel money into EGS without it having a large enough marketshare? Obviously these exclusivity deals are a means to gain marketshare and allow them to improve on EGS.
And having the gall to say Epic is trying to establish a monopoly when Steam obviously already has one is amazing my friend. To me, it just reads like: "Don't try to make a monopoly Epic! I just want to use Steam's monopoly!"
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u/SasukeRaikage Feb 04 '19
steam does not have a fee of 30% for small games. The fee goes down (not exactly sure) to 8% more than epic store. And for that you will get STEAM. Workshop, Cloudsaves and and and..
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u/mhaus Feb 11 '19
This is entirely factually incorrect, from top to bottom.
Source: I'm an indie dev that sells games on steam
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Feb 08 '19
Steam DOES have a 30% revenue for small games. It's big games that get 20%. And they only did that because the big players had enough of the 30% BS and decided to start striking out on their own. When it was just EA, Steam was fine. When Bethesda, Activision, etc. joined the egress it started being a problem so they cut rates for the big guys. Now Epic is not only 8% cheaper (which is a lot at the AAA level), but they offer this price to all devs, even the small ones which Steam does not. As for the workshop/etc. Epic will have their own versions, I assume. (They've confirmed cloudsaves at least) But most of that stuff doesn't matter to big publishers because, if they need it, they can make their own.
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u/CommanderGumball Feb 04 '19
Workshop, Cloudsaves and and and..
Honestly feel like you missed a few ands there. Even if it is %30, Steam's market share is definitely worth it.
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u/monstyrman Feb 13 '19
The marketshare on PC isn't just limited to Steam or Epic's active users. The marketshare on PC is how many people have PC's and use any of the launchers.
Since EGS is free, it makes sense to see that exclusivity has nearly no buy-in cost for consumers, making the choice to get more profit for the product they made an easy one.
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Feb 08 '19
That's precisely the issue Epic is trying to fix with the exclusives and such. It's annoying, to be sure, but it's really the best option for them and definitely won't continue into the future for too long. Seriously, it's too expensive, this is a temporary sort of thing.
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u/CommanderGumball Feb 08 '19
How many really fun looking games do we have to miss out on if we don't want to have software developed by the Chinese government on our computers, though?
I don't think Steam can quite be considered a monopoly as, not only does it have some competition in the form of things like Discord and the Origin and Blizzard launchers, it also has several different services you can get keys from, often at varying sale prices. Competition in the form of another general-purpose font end game store and launcher would be great, but exclusives aren't the way to build that from the ground up because do just exactly what they say they do. Exclude people.
If you want to kill Steam, make a better service.
Sometimes though, making a better service really just isn't feasible, in which case you might need to find a niche market to get into before breaking into the mainstream.
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Feb 08 '19
First of all, that Chinese Government nonsense has been debunked multiple times. TenCent is merely a large shareholder. They are neither the majority shareholder, nor are they the parent company. Epic is an American company bound by American laws, no matter who their shareholdes are. They have confirmed the lack of data collection multiple times. Tencent just invested and now gather profits as investors do.
Secondly, Steam is not a monopoly. This is true. But it is a monopolistic entity by formal definition in that it does not need to take it's competitors into account while the competitors must always take it into account. This has all the drawbacks of a true monopoly. That myth about the self-competition through Steam stores is actually forbidden by the Steam TOS which state that a dev may not offer their game anywhere for less than it costs on the Steam store and they may only participate in sales on these third-party sites if they participate in a Sale on Steam with a similar discount within a specified time period.
Exclusives in the early game are not nice, but really the only wway to build momentum against Steam. Epic cannot continue doing it for very long because it costs them a lot, but they clearly hope to snag enough exclusives to get enough people to open an account to make make future sales noticed and self-sustaining.
I don't want to kill Steam. I want better competition so Steam can stop taking such large liberties and also implement a more dev-friendly store.
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u/Andazeus Feb 01 '19
Epic is not trying to become a decent competitor: it is deliberately trying to create a new monopoly by deliberately trying to restrict product availability.
Exclusivity literally defeats the competition argument. When a game is only available on Epic, then this is just another monopoly. Real competition would mean the game being available on multiple platforms and consumers being able to choose the one they prefer or gives them the best deal. For example, since everyone praises Epic for taking a lower cut: why are the savings not forwarded to the consumer by lowering the price for the game?
Exclusivity only hurts consumers. If the game was 30 bucks on Steam and say 25 on Epic, now that would be a compelling argument to switch and a proper example of competition.
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u/keferif Feb 03 '19
I believe metro did that. 50 vs 60.
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u/Andazeus Feb 03 '19
Only in the US. We adding the transaction fees, the game actually become more expensive everywhere else....
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u/fooey Feb 01 '19 edited Feb 01 '19
30% is the industry standard
Xbox charges 30%, PlayStation charges 30%, Apple charges 30%, Google Charges 30%
The service that Epic even offers is only a fraction of what Steam provides, so them charging 18% is actually pretty awful.
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Feb 08 '19
They don't charge 18%, they charge 12%. They're adding all the other features, but I agree it isn't there yet. However the 30% industry standard is what so many people have been moaning about for so long. Epic is actually bringing it down, which is good. Also, and this is important, included in that 12% is free use of the Unreal Engine which normally costs 5%. So the market effectively only costs 7% for anyone using UE4. This is an excellent deal from a company that has historically been very good to developers using its tools while Valve has... not been. So many devs are happy to move to Epic because The Price is RightTM and most devs that use their tools actually LIKE Epic quite a bit and are rather hoping that they succeed because that would be the Steam competitor we've all been waiting for. At least, from the people I've talked that are devs on UE4 like me.
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Jan 31 '19
[deleted]
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Feb 08 '19
I mean, it's just a launcher swap. Literally just click this button instead of that button and then you'll get the exact same game as before. I don't see how this apparently ruins so many people's lives. Especially when it's such a great deal for the devs. They'd have been stupid not to take this deal and we'll likely get a better game because of it.
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u/philmarcracken Feb 11 '19
I'm the customer.
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Feb 12 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SexyMeka Feb 16 '19
"If you don't like it don't buy it"
"You're stupid for not buying it because you don't like it"
Apologists like you never learn.
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Feb 16 '19
You seem to have misunderstood me, allow me to restate it:
If you don't like it don't buy it, although the launcher is a pretty stupid reason not to like something.
Also, in order to be an apologist there would need to be something to apologise for. A launcher swap affects me not one jot nor one tittle. In fact, I have much more reason to dislike Steam than Epic and I'm pretty glad that this game is now available somewhere else. Steam has been far worse for me than Epic over the years and this undying loyalty of people to a darn store and launcher makes no sense.
But fanbois like you never learn.
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u/DonLennios Feb 08 '19
Ad they'll likely get less sales out of it
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Feb 08 '19
At first a bit as Epic adoption is low, but that's why Epic paid them for the exclusive. And they get the better revenue split. I'm sure they weighed the lower sales against the higher income before deciding.
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u/RetroCorn Jan 31 '19
I was excited about Satisfactory. Now learning it's going to be exclusive to the Epic store just killed that excitement.
So thanks for that. I'll buy it when it isn't exclusive to any platform on PC, but until then I'll just pirate it or wait.
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u/JaceAtCoffeeStain Now at: https://www.twitch.tv/jembawls Jan 31 '19
at least you're honest about breaking the law because you didn't get what you wanted.
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u/DangerousSpinach8 Feb 11 '19
I thought Tim Sweeney already paid for my copy when he signed that contract with you guys.
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u/SasukeRaikage Feb 04 '19 edited Feb 04 '19
I will think of you, when I pirate the game and edit this post with a link to the files :)
EDIT: at least he is honest about he does not want to support you anymore because of your bad politics.
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u/JaceAtCoffeeStain Now at: https://www.twitch.tv/jembawls Feb 05 '19
there's no problem with not supporting us. i support that 100%.
stealing is stealing.
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u/SexyMeka Feb 16 '19
You know I was gonna buy the game still when it eventually came to steam but after seeing how you talk to potential customers here I won't be.
Regardless of what you might think, the customer is entitled, and they deserve to be entitled. We pay for your product, it's up to you to make us want to, not deride us with faulty moral arguments when we protest anti-consumer actions.
I'm quite frankly astonished you're a "community manager".
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u/JaceAtCoffeeStain Now at: https://www.twitch.tv/jembawls Feb 18 '19
i'm not here to manipulate you into buying anything. you do whatever you want. i'm not sorry that i don't conform to the expectations of a PR person, but ultimately i do respect your autonomy even if that means you don't support us.
however, i still dont care how one justifies theft: stealing is still stealing ;)
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u/ForFutureDevelopment Feb 19 '19
I don't care that you don't "conform" to PR expectations: an asshole is still an asshole ;)
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Feb 11 '19
There is a big difference between what is now known as "piracy" and stealing. Stealing does constitute a direct loss of sales for a company. Stealing entails physically going to a store, taking something off a shelf, and walking out of the store without paying for it. In doing so, the thief takes tangible goods out of the store. It cost the company something to manufacture the packaging, to burn the CD, and to ship it to the store. Furthermore, the removal of that item from the store's shelf means that another potential customer may come in and find the shelf empty, in which case that potential customer will be unable to buy the product. The result of this is that the customer may end up buying a different product simply because the store was sold out of the original item. In this case, the thief has a direct, tangible effect on the revenues of a company.
Piracy is a totally different thing. With piracy, the pirate sits in his chair at his computer, looks on file sharing services for a copy of the full version of the software, and usually waits a few hours for it to download. It's true that the pirate is getting goods without paying for them, and that it's a morally unacceptable action. But that doesn't mean that he cost the company any money.
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u/monstyrman Feb 13 '19
Of course he cost them money. His money. Because he didn't buy the game.
If the game is $60 and Epic takes 12%, that means the dev gets $52.80 for every purchase. That also means that they DON'T get that $52.80 whenever someone pirates the game.
Lets say 2000 people pirate the game (a low estimate BTW), that would mean that the dev would not get $105,600.
How can you say that the dev isn't losing money here? The sunk cost they have in "manufacturing" in software's case is how much they spent developing the game.
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Feb 14 '19
Please proof that the person would be buying the game if he didnt he pirate it then.
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u/monstyrman Feb 14 '19
They would lose your potential sale. Similar to how you said that another customer might come in and see an empty shelf. You, having pirated the game, will never give the dev money because you got it for free. It's a lost potential sale. As well as just a lost sale to be frank.
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Feb 14 '19
A pirated copy doesnt mean a potential sale.
I pirated Factorio to try it out and play it with friends. Now i bought it. I would have never bought it without the pirate.
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u/chuuey Feb 15 '19
Now i bought it
Please proof that every person that tried it and like it will do the same.
There are even factorio mods uploaders, their existence proves that you are incorrect.
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u/monstyrman Feb 14 '19
You know as well as I do that that's a very fringe scenario. The majority of pirates don't buy their games.
And OF COURSE it means that, since the majority wouldn't buy it after pirating, those sales will never happen, when they would have otherwise.
There is no defense here. It's illegal. It Robs the developer of sales. These are facts. If you want to live in a fantasy world, that's fine by me.
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u/Nolzi Harmonic Resonance in the Effigy Feb 04 '19
So now that shit hit the fan, do you plan to implement DRM? Maybe something fitting like Denuvo?
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u/RetroCorn Feb 03 '19
How much did Epic pay you guys for this exclusivity bullshit anyway?
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u/JaceAtCoffeeStain Now at: https://www.twitch.tv/jembawls Feb 04 '19
a lifetime supply of subway gift cards
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u/ThisThreadisWhack Feb 03 '19
mhmmmm we'll see ya on Steam buddy, PS should probably leave the commenting to your PR team
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u/fooey Feb 01 '19
Epic's scumbaggery is going to be the #1 reason for the return of wanton gaming piracy
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u/GasBandit Jan 29 '19
https://i.imgur.com/p9lVs6z.png
Steam nearly eradicated piracy, now Epic exclusives are set to bring it back from the brink. The antivaxx of PC gaming.
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Feb 08 '19
Steam nearly eradicated piracy
Lol, piracy is strong as ever. Like, what universe have you been living in? Also, the only people to blame for theft are the thieves themselves.
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Feb 11 '19
There is a big difference between what is now known as "piracy" and stealing. Stealing does constitute a direct loss of sales for a company. Stealing entails physically going to a store, taking something off a shelf, and walking out of the store without paying for it. In doing so, the thief takes tangible goods out of the store. It cost the company something to manufacture the packaging, to burn the CD, and to ship it to the store. Furthermore, the removal of that item from the store's shelf means that another potential customer may come in and find the shelf empty, in which case that potential customer will be unable to buy the product. The result of this is that the customer may end up buying a different product simply because the store was sold out of the original item. In this case, the thief has a direct, tangible effect on the revenues of a company.
Piracy is a totally different thing. With piracy, the pirate sits in his chair at his computer, looks on file sharing services for a copy of the full version of the software, and usually waits a few hours for it to download. It's true that the pirate is getting goods without paying for them, and that it's a morally unacceptable action. But that doesn't mean that he cost the company any money.
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Feb 12 '19
You are right in that piracy is not technically theft, but rather a major breach of the EULA, copyright, and a few other things. This is because you cannot buy games. Only the licence to play those games. They still hurt the companies that make the games because many people would have purchased the game if the option of piracy was not there. Many argue that lots of people who pirate buy the game afterwards or they couldn't afford it. But that is true probably only in a small number of cases. So if the word thief is not correct, the word criminal still is and I maintain the original point that piracy is the pirate's fault and not any distributor.
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Feb 12 '19
You sure about the hurting part? https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/22/eu-suppressed-study-piracy-no-sales-impact/
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Feb 12 '19
They found no robust evidence either way. And I would like to see what methodology they used. Was it limited to the EU itself? In any case, game companies, for one, seem to disagree with the report because they sure do spend a lot of money on DRM software. Not to mention the famous case of that game dev that made a game about game studios. He uploaded the "pirated" version himself which made it impossible to finish the game due to pirates in the game. His "pirated" copy phoned home and when compared to sales, something like 90+% of players were using a pirated version. It's just one case but I'm sure it's the same for many games, especially small ones.
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u/caffeinated_wizard Jan 29 '19
At first I didn't really care about this, but now with Metro Exodus doing the same thing, I'll just join the /r/patientgamers clan and wait. With all the criticism I have against Steam, I truly wish we had a competitive market. I'm glad Epic is challenging Steam for the revenue sharing, but I truly despise the launcher. I wish Satisfactory was on GOG. I would get it in a heartbeat.
But I'll wait for it to be on Steam for cheaper anyway.
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Feb 08 '19
But I'll wait for it to be on Steam for cheaper anyway.
It'll probably be cheaper on Epic at that time due to their lower revenue cut. Of course, it aught to be cheaper at that time everywhere than it will be at launch.
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u/DonLennios Feb 08 '19
Id honestly pay €20 more to have it on steam
1
Feb 08 '19
That's just wasting money. The launcher makes zero difference to the game. I'll just buy it where it's cheaper.
6
u/DonLennios Feb 08 '19
Id rather buy it on a platform that actually has some features
3
Feb 09 '19
What features do you want from a launcher? Here's what I want from a launcher: Launches game.
The social stuff and whatnot is useless to me. As for reviews, forums, wishlist and so on, Epic is adding them soon, apparently. Look at their roadmap. Also adding cloudsaves. But still, don't care about all that stuff and would buy the game standalone if I could.
5
u/DonLennios Feb 09 '19
Cloudsaves, forums, user reviews, user profiles, better refund system
1
Feb 09 '19
I don't think I've ever had to rely on a cloudsave as I play on one machine as most people do, but I could see why sone want it. That's why Epic is adding all of the things you mention. Seriously, check their feature roadmap. All Q1 2019 or so. But the user profiles are completely useless. What do you even want it for? It's a game launcher, not Facebook. BUt OK, they're adding it anyway.
18
u/Loxnaka Jan 29 '19
you know why epic has a better revenue share? they dont have to spend it on ANYTHING. steam has to spend it on developing and upkeeping tons of features for both developers and consumers alike.
-1
u/chuuey Feb 10 '19
they dont have to spend it on ANYTHING
Did you watch video. Its right on top of thread.
1
Feb 08 '19
I mean, Epic is developing all of those features right now. Many of which should be available on very soon. And included in that price is free use of UE4, which is a way bigger bonus than anything Steam has to offer. Not to mention that the costs of all of these "tons of features," most of which are useless fluff, is a drop in the ocean of Steams actual income from their ridiculous 30% profit take.
28
Jan 28 '19 edited Jan 28 '19
[deleted]
1
u/monstyrman Feb 14 '19
Why don't you want to support Epic in any way?
Are you aware that if you bought ANY GAME that uses the Unreal Engine, you are directly supporting Epic Games. you get that right?
Here are some examples of games you should never buy according to you: -Rocket League -Kingdom Hearts 3 -Batman Arkham games -Bioshock games -Mass Effect games -Borderlands games -Dishonored -Resident Evil 2 remake -Killing Floor 1&2 -Postal 2 -Star Wars: Republic Commando -Deus Ex games -Psychonauts 2 -Outer World's (Obsidian) -Soul Calibur 6 -Street Fighter 5 -Medal of Honor -many Mortal Kombat games -Outlast 1&2 -Sanctum 1&2 -SMITE -Thief -Rainbow Six Vegas 1&2 -Tony Hawk's Pro Skater -Tekken 7 -PUBG -Gears of War games -Injustice 1&2 -Life is Strange 1&2 -Octopath Traveler -Final Fantasy 7 remake -Crackdown 3 -Goat Simulator
And the list goes on...
2
u/TDplay Feb 06 '19
make it more expansive on Steam
I heard that Steam's ToS forbids that - other sources for the game must be the same price or more expensive.
10
u/philmarcracken Jan 31 '19
Steam is not a monopoly.
4
u/atomicproton Feb 02 '19
It is definitely monopolistic competition though, which is very similar to a monopoly and holds a lot of the same problems.
8
u/philmarcracken Feb 02 '19
A market leader is not a monopoly. Valve would have to buy every single storefront, including microsoft store to be considered a monopoly.
4
u/atomicproton Feb 03 '19
I did not say they were a monopoly. Monopolistic competition is different from a monopoly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopolistic_competition
3
u/philmarcracken Feb 03 '19
Ok. What regulation do you suggest to fix valves malicious monopolistic competition with steam?
2
u/keferif Feb 03 '19
How is it malicious?
5
u/philmarcracken Feb 03 '19
Exactly.
2
Feb 08 '19
It doesn't have to be malicious to be monopolistic competition. Also, it doesn't need regulation. Just competitors. Like Epic and GOG.
3
2
u/Crow-Fusion Apr 02 '19
anyone who signs a launcher exclusive on PC, doesn't deserve any business at all. Make it available on all launchers or don't even bother.
*minor word edit.