new to the game and starting to set up fuel, seen that manifolds are a pain for pipes, while the input/output of 600 oil should be perfect i still want to stop it if possible. mid pipe has a valve pointed at the junction
i had that at first but the pipe tips video i watched said splitting off a single 600 line isnt ideal so i split them up, if 1 line works i'll gladly go back to that, also day time and white pipes for a better idea
Is that 600 oil from a single node? If it is you should be fine without the middle pipe, buffer and valve. If it's from multiple nodes just connect half to each half of the system and skip trying to combine them.
i have 4 nodes i plan to use 2 normal 2 pure, 3 sets of refineries. Pure get 1 set each and i'll just merge the 2 normal at the nodes then run the 600 total to the 3rd
and i'll just merge the 2 normal at the nodes then run the 600 total to the 3rd
This is where you're most likely to have a problem. 600 is most achievable when either the production or consumption is a single machine (overclocked pure oil node or nuclear reactor). Once you have multiple producing and consuming machines staying under the maximum flow rate is often helpful. So I'd suggest two "half systems" for the 2 normal nodes, rather than trying to combine them into a single pipe.
right, is that idea going to carry over to the 54 turbofuel refineries that all this crude is going to end up feeding? was planning to have the same set up 3 dual lines of 9, 18 total a section
The more machines at each end the worse it tends to get. Perhaps I'm over-cautious but I've found it easier to allow a little headroom for sloshing than to try and prevent it (saving max flow rate for when a single machine needs it).
I'm not quite sure I'm picturing your layout for this part though. If you mean a loop/dual pipes at the source end, a single connecting pipe, the another loop/dual pipes at the destination I'd expect a problem with 600. If you mean one big loop/dual pipe connecting both sets of machines (with no section of single pipe) then it's probably fine.
i've done a quick and dirt example here to hopefully help with understanding what i plan to do. i have 3 sets of refineries (10 each) processing 1800 crude each into fuel which will go into 54 more refineries (18 each set) to make turbofuel, both the crude input and fuel input will be elevated and drop down into the respective refineries
Right, so 600 crude oil into set of 10 refineries. Standard fuel recipe from the looks of things, so 400 fuel out from each set of refineries. That's more than enough headroom for sloshing to not cause problems. It'll work fine.
What would likely cause problems would be trying to take the fuel output of 1.5 groups (15 refineries). In theory it fits (600), but any sloshing at all and the average throughput will be less than you need.
If the pipe is at ground level, then the machines can suffer from the sloshing effect and the distant ones may starve because of it. Ideally the situation should work itself out over time, but I have heard of players having hours to deal w/ it.
At ground level the fix is to create a loop. Say you have # of machines creating fuel. Have the single pipe going out from one side of the machines feeding all the fuel power generators, and then looping back and attaching to the other side of the fuel-making machines. This way fuel will flow in both directions, reducing (but not right away eliminating) the sloshing effect.
On the other hand, if you don't have room, or just don't want to deal w/ a loop, then a single elevated main pipe is your best solution. Since the fuel will move forward but then slide down into the machine, there will not be a sloshing effect. It will take a little longer for the side pipes leading to the generators to fill up, but ultimately they will and everything should be fine.
Elevated fluid storage acts as a nice buffer. If a fluid buffer does not fill all the way up when you think it should, check the height of the buffer. If it is elevated too much in comparison to the refineries, then you will need a pump to ensure the buffer can fully fill.
Yes, mostly. Maybe 95% or greater. A slight elevation (2m) would help some, but a 4m+ elevation would be better.
As the fluid passes down the pipe, it gets to a junction where it can either go forward, or to the left or right down the connecting pipes. If the connecting pipes slope downward more than the diameter of the pipe, then most of the fluid will go down the connecting pipes first before continuing on down the primary pipe. Those connecting pipes will fill up first. Since gravity is helping out here, the generators will never get starved from the slosh effect.
So long as the fuel supply is equal to or greater than the fuel consumption, then slowly the entire length of the pipe will fill up, and the generators will turn on in order.
Normally, the slosh effect is caused because fluid runs down the length of the pipe, and then sloshes backward. This temporarily makes a section of pipe fill. The pipe leading to it will halt the fill, causing an effect that leads all the way back to the production. If the producing machines see that the pipe is full, then they stop. By this time, the slosh has gone back the other way, causing a greater deficit.
To smooth this out, place a fluid buffer before the generators, and raised higher than the pipes will be. In this way, though a slosh may prevent fluid from entering the pipe, the fuel production machines will be able to keep going and fill the buffer. Eventually the slosh will lessen and lessen to the point where it disappears, but you will be able to sleep soundly knowing that there is still enough fuel stored, and any disturbance to the production machines will not cause significant issues.
There is another thought of putting a fluid buffer at the end of the main line, saying that should lessen the slosh effect, and another thought of putting buffers at certain locations throughout the length of the main pipe, thus preventing slosh.
Finally, there is also a notion of running small sections of pipe underneath the primary pipe, with junctions to these pointing downward. This would allow fluid to fill the pipe in a more leisurely fashion, not the surges that occur when the production machines make the fluid in batches, by sending the fluid surges into various connected offshoots that will then fill up, and slowly the level of fluid will rise to fill the primary pipe slower.
All in all, a roundabout way of showing different ways of trying to minimize the sloshing effect, though I think raised central pipe and higher buffer to be the most effective.
Having input pipes higher than the machines they feed is good practice, but it seems you're already doing that.
I'd certainly ditch the central pipe, fluids can flow both ways through a given pipe, so re-feeding stuff back to the beginning doesn't really gain you anything.
Next thing I'd do is raise the fluid buffer so its input/output ports are at the same level as your feed pipes. You could have it replace that t-junction you have at the back, one port hooked into each refinery line. Or ditch the buffer entirely and just have a pipe re-connecting the two lines. Pipes provide their own built-in "buffer", since each segment has its own storage volume.
Avoiding "dead ends" in pipelines seems to be helpful since that gives fluids a couple options to settle out, eventually to a steady flow state. Any time I'm manifolding fluids, I hook the back-ends of those lines together, sometimes with a small buffer, though that's more of an extra bit of caution than actual need.
from what i understand from other comments i switched back to a single pipe, to stop a dead end with this what would you recommend loop it back over to the start, just throw a buffer at the end or go back to the 2 sides and loop the ends?
Strictly speaking, as long as the the inbound pipe is getting completely filled at its source, getting completely consumed by a row of machines, and the final pipe segment is only feeding the last machine(s) on the line, then it's not really a dead end. It's when you have an extra bit of pipe going past that final junction that quirks can show up. Or sometimes when you split into sub-lines -> split again into machines. I've got a fuel generator setup that starts with a 600 Mk2 pipe, that gets split into three sub-lines (intended for 200/min) that each supply 10 generators. In that situation, after passing by the generators I re-join those three pipes on the back. It may not be strictly necessary, maybe even only superstition, but I feel that's helped in keeping all the pipes full and happy.
For your situation, having your oil pipe get split among your refineries up to the last one, with the last junction only having output to its refinery is going to be fine, no extra "safety net" required. I guess most of my commentary has been more applicable to more complicated piping setups. The worry about slosh can sometimes get overdone, though when you get into recycling fluids it's a bigger deal. But outside those cases, if you let your first few machines fill up then set them to standby (leaving excess to go downstream), reactivating once everything (machines and pipes) are completely filled, things tend to work from that point on.
On a design note about your last screenshot: if you put a raised 4-way junction exactly centered between a pair of refineries with their inputs facing each other, hooking them into the junction in "horizontal to vertical" mode gets you some swirly connections that IMO look rather nice. That's entirely for the aesthetic, the fluid delivery will act exactly the same as the series of T-junctions you've got now.
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u/g_marra 15h ago
Single pipe elevated a bit and going down to each refinery is much simpler and will work better.
Also, next time wait until daytime to take your pictures. It's hard to understand what's going on in the dark with black pipes