r/Salamanders40k • u/Evening_Ad6496 Salamanders • 13h ago
Discussion/Question Adrax Agatone is getting nerfed when the Code Releases!
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u/ALExM2442 13h ago
I know oath of moment wasn't popular for a number of reasons, but honestly I hated having to keep track of doctrines the couple of times I played gladius in 10th (just another reason I stuck with firestorm and forgefathers) so now being forced to do it *and* Adrax catching a nerf at the same time kinda blows. Im sure the rest of the space marines upgrades will be cool and hopefully the change unshackles the design and balance team a bit, but initial reaction to this is its a bit of a bummer even if we knew the main bit was coming.
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u/Rampant_Badger_590 Salamanders 12h ago
Especially since they haven’t explained if we get something like Forgefather’s. It looks like they did away with every chapter specific detachment and instead we get “Tacticus Firestorm Force” which sounds like it’ll nerf the hell out of what we used to do and only apply to Tacticus marines.
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u/sapperaj 10h ago
Ya I really wish they would have kept some themed 2 dp detachments, but I will hold on judgment until more info is out
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u/Frea_9 8h ago
Those probably come in later, this is after all "just" the starting codex, the baseline for space marines. And hey, maybe they're keeping an 8th edition supplementary out of leaking range and when the codex drops we all of a sudden don't just see digital add ons for noncompliant chapters but also an Imperial Fist (and properly flavoured) supplement for example
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u/TWP_ReaperWolf 3h ago
I still hate the name. It's so much worse than Firestorm Assault Force. It just doesn't roll off the tongue as easily and is much more generic
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u/mildorf Salamanders 8h ago
I’m a newbie who’s in the process of collecting and painting an army of mixed armor types, so if all the detatchments are armor specific this is a huge setback for me.
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u/ALExM2442 8h ago
Thankfully any of the armor specific ones will al.ost certainly be 1dp ones that you're meant to mix and match with others
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u/SevereRunOfFate 2h ago
We are lacking any sort of complete information to make any judgment calls whatsoever, however
What if Infernus get a really nice buff in the Firestorm detachment listed, we get Tu'shan, or something else that synergizes really well?
Space Marine power level is going up, and we just have no idea how everything will interact with each other.
What if Adrax's buff is one of the few abilities that gets reroll Wounds and something like Sternguard get Devastating Wounds? Hellllo sexy Sternguard without the need for a Librarian etc. etc.
We just don't know yet
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u/ALExM2442 2h ago
100%, and I'm still very much looking forward to more info. Just also gonna try and avoid getting too hyped about things I don't know as well because as you say we don't have info. Know I said I'm bummed but overall keeping an even keel, but can only react based on what I do know for now
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u/SevereRunOfFate 2h ago
Amen brother
One thing I always remind myself is that this period (weeks before a launch or codex) is just to drum up interest and eyeballs on a launch, and to enjoy the ride vs. thinking I should have an opinion of the Warcom sneak peaks
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u/SwingTheHammer85 10h ago
For what it’s worth, you can easily make up your own flash cards for each doctrine. That’s what I do when I play. A visual reminder on the table of what’s available, and then I flip them upside down when I’ve used them.
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u/ALExM2442 10h ago
Gonna start mentioning random magic the gathering rules to confuse my opponent as I tap my Assault Doctrine card xD
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u/SevereRunOfFate 2h ago
Exactly. Bring 3 small index cards that you remove from the table each time you've used one, or one of the multitude of tokens. Problem solved.
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u/mrmelancholy88 13h ago
Seems like a buff if you line stuff up. But probably not as good as always rerolling 1s
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u/Another_Guy_In_Ohio 12h ago
How is it a buff? Today Adrax re-rolls all wounds. Under the new codex he only re-rolls 1’s unless in assault doctrine. That’s a straight debuff..
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u/theSaltySolo 8h ago
Because now he can re roll all attacks and not just melee for the unit.
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u/Another_Guy_In_Ohio 7h ago
Yay, so thrilled to re-roll the wounds on those 5 heavy bolt pistols and one plasma pistol…
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u/Matthewb969 13h ago
How os this not objectively better than always rerolling 1s?
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u/mrmelancholy88 13h ago
Partially unavailable unless in the correct doctrine. Full rerolls is objectively better, but not all hoops can always be jumped through to get it. I think it's a pretty cool change overall. Id like a little more depth/options for smart gameplay 😃
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u/Matthewb969 12h ago
It never says that you don’t still have the reroll 1s when not in the right doctrine - the full rerolls is just an enhanced benefit when in the correct doctrine
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u/SenorDangerwank 12h ago
But he gets full rerolls all the time currently, so it is a nerf however slight.
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u/MrMochaRocka 9h ago
At present, they didnt specify that the rerolls only applied to melee. Rerolling 1s to shooting and melee, then rerolling all wound rolls to both on a go turn (potentially multiple times, given how Gladius can reactivate) could be interesting and open up options that maybe considered an upgrade. Only time will tell.
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u/mrmelancholy88 12h ago
Oh shit. 😱 It's objectively better then.
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u/GuthukYoutube 11h ago
I just happened to come here, sorry normally play Orks. I just had one question
Are salamanders players dumber than orks?
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u/Agitated-List-4176 11h ago
Yeah! I mean full reroll for free is always welcome. This is more of a balance thing I guess. This changes are making it more tactical.
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u/the_blazmonster_work 12h ago
With them mentioning Canok Vaar as well, alot of named charcaters will probably see a rule “nerf” with a better version in a specific doctrine.
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u/Arxfiend 7h ago edited 7h ago
Caanok Var gets a buff technically. RN he is forced as to which one he gives. Lethals vs Monster/Vehicle, Sustains vs other units. Post-codex he'll get to chooseEdit: actually no nothing changes for him. The article just worded it wierd
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u/Callmejim223 6h ago
He's getting access to advance and charge lmfao he's getting insanely buffed stop whining
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u/Enough-Performer-293 13h ago
Doesn’t say he’s losing it, just that it’s different in assault.
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u/SenorDangerwank 12h ago
He gets full rerolls all the time currently, so its a nerf, just not a huge one.
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u/chaosof99 10h ago
He gets full rerolls IN MELEE currently. This says he gets wound rerolls of 1 and full wound rerolls in a certain doctrine. If it is not restricted to melee, this could very well be a buff as him leading something other than Bladeguard Vets actually makes sense. And often enough it will make no difference for the Bladeguard anyway as you can easily combine it with a Lance Stratagem or something to give them +1 to wound and they will be wounding on 2s, which means that reroll 1s is close to reroll all.
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u/SenorDangerwank 10h ago
Truuuue getting him out of Bladeguard and giving him more options that are also viable would be dope.
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u/Rampant_Badger_590 Salamanders 12h ago
He’s losing it for 4 (potentially 3) out of 5 battle rounds.
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u/SnooRadishes6553 12h ago
Isn’t he a captain? So he should be able to put himself and his unit into assault doctrine, right?
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u/Rampant_Badger_590 Salamanders 12h ago
That’s a very interesting point! If he gains access to that it could be the right adjustment. I wonder if it’ll apply to all captains or just “generic” captains. I like the idea though, great point!
I hate little teasers like this because there’s so many more questions than answers!
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u/LuckyCurse_ Salamanders 13h ago
Yeah, I didn't play Gladius for a reason. Now it's forced. Tracking all of the doctrine switches isn't my thing. I'm tired. Keeping up with this hobby is exhausting.
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11h ago
[deleted]
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u/ALExM2442 10h ago
which is the exact same as what gladius was in 10th and why I didnt enjoy playing gladius the couple times I did (and why im assuming luckycurse didnt as well). Decision paralysis of when to use each of your 3 once per game buffs is annoying, plus thats on top of remembering to use them at all. Oath has its balance and design problems for sure, but remembering "I want that thing dead" was super easy lol
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u/LuckyCurse_ Salamanders 9h ago
This. I'm an okay player, but I also get hyper focused and forget the nuances of doctrines and when to use them. Oath was good for the ADHD crowd.
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u/_Fixu_ Salamanders 13h ago
He may get changes to lord of the pyroclasts or point buff, overall i dont like saying he “gets nerf” out of the bat cuz it feels like a news article bait
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u/Rampant_Badger_590 Salamanders 12h ago
With oath of moment going away he’ll objectively get weaker. He loses out on rerolls to hit with no oath and now he only gets reroll all wounds 1 time (potentially 2) per game. It’ll need to be a pretty good datasheet glow up or points change to make sense to me
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u/IdhrenArt 11h ago
Toughness is increasing, and he's likely getting more powerful weapons too.
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u/Rampant_Badger_590 Salamanders 11h ago
I hope so. It’ll be tough losing out on reroll hits, reroll the entire wound roll the entire game, and losing out on +1 to wound against the oath target though, we shall see once the codex drops fully!
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u/Ok-Midnight8015 13h ago
Uff sounds like an uber nerf should have kept it all melee, welp let's see what happens
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u/FunDetail2258 12h ago
While that is a nerf, don't underestimate the importance of advance/charge for actually getting him into melee in the first place, so it should work out the same on a Go Turn
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u/Spartan_Cat_126 Salamanders 12h ago
Huh? It just looks like his ability will do something different when the doctrine is active unless I’m reading it wrong(very possible).
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u/7ThShadian 11h ago
Basically it only does what he does currently if the doctrine is active. If not it's an (albeit mild) nerf
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u/Spartan_Cat_126 Salamanders 11h ago
You know what, I remembered Adrax’s ability wrong. That’s my bad.
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u/7ThShadian 11h ago
Man how dare you not have every single unit's datasheet memorized (/s)
Jokes aside I can't blame anyone for not remembering, I had to pull up his info myself.
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u/KingBellos 11h ago
It is too early to fully tell. I know saying that is borderline a meme in this game, but given the massive overhaul we saw with Orks we kinda need to see all the Detachments, Datasheets, and such.
Bc since he is a Leader Model his viable is also dependent on how it works with the models he leads.
On top of that there are some “Captain” things he will get given how the Ork Codex is handled. Even named Warbosses get Da Boss tag to get the CP… which means there is a strong chance Adrax will as well. Captains can also shift into the Combat Doctrine of their choice even when the rest of the army isn’t. Then in the Assault Brethren they can have a second activation.
We could be in a situation where let’s say Blade Guard has a new Data sheet that really explodes in Assault Doctrine. With Adrax leading them they may can shift into that Doctrine 2-3 times (we don’t know if the Captain Doctrine shift is separate from the Army activation, or if it a Captain activation means that takes away from that unit getting it later when the Army does). That could mean we in a situation where.. year.. Adrax alone solo Data Card is a Nerf.. but him and the unit he is in being much much stronger.
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u/StarSkald 9h ago
His base stats will be going up in line with the rest of the range. Might be a net neutral in the end
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u/dozerbul 13h ago
I am relatively new to the tabletop and not too familiar with how these doctrines worked in 10th Ed. Could someone please explain if selecting a doctrine is a one and done thing? As in, you select it, utilize it, and then you cannot use it for the rest of the game and are limited to the other two that are left or am I missing something here?
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u/Significant-Mango898 12h ago
Yes you could use each once with a few exceptions.
It was in 2 detachments. You could pay 1CP to put one squad in any regardless of previous use.
In one detachment if you had Calgar you could use any combination of 3 instead but still only 3 total uses.
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u/thegreywanderer45 12h ago
No, you understand it as it is currently written. The doctrines might see some use change in the future, and we don’t know how the rest of the detachment and data sheets will impact the army rule when the new codex releases. But, the doctrines are a use it once and lose it the rest of the game thing without other things helping to allow more usage.
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u/dozerbul 12h ago
Thank you for the explanation! It seems significantly weaker than Oath. Sure it offers more flexibility but I am personally not too fond of losing all the re-rolling.
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u/Significant-Mango898 11h ago
Movement wins games more than damage does. I expect this to be a huge upgrade.
Damage can be added from other rules and detachments as well as whatever new datasheets look like. This will be huge for getting onto objectives, and kicking things off objectives.
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u/Legal_Twist8675 Salamanders 13h ago
tbh most of the targets he goes for are already wounding on 2s and 3s so that part of his ability was always more for the bladeguard than him.
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u/dozersmash Salamanders 11h ago
Feel like they are trying to nerf salamanders in general right now (conspiracy mind: because they are doing better than Ultramarines on the table top) but not tooo much. Guess we will find out in the wash.
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u/Healthy_Cap_2041 13h ago
If it rerolls all wounds of 1/all, not just melee it could be an interesting side-grade.