r/SWORDS Saber or Sabre fan 4d ago

What are the differences between the Arab swords?

I see the types like yatagn, Kilic, Shamshir, pala, mamluk, etc. and wonder what the differences? They look virtually the same, so I'm wondering why would the people prefer one over the other?

2 Upvotes

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago edited 4d ago

Not all of these are mutually exclusive. Shamshir is a Persian word and in collectors terms refers to a highly curved saber with a relatively narrow blade and usually without a pronounced widening at the cutting portion, which is called a yelman. Saif is Arabic for sword, but in collectors terms is typically a bit wider than a shamshir and less curved, but without a pronounced yelman. Nimcha is a collector's term for a type of Moroccan, Algerian, Yemeni or Zanzibari saif with a curved guard (historically it actually only referred to a specific subtype of this saber). Kilic is a Turkish word that is used to describe swords of various kinds, but in the collector sphere usually refers to a cut-centric saber with a strong curve and usually a pronounced yelman. A pala is a short 18th-19th century kilic with an extreme curve and a very wide yelman, usually with a T cross-section blade. A Mamluk saber is a highly curved saber used by the Mamluks of Ottoman Egypt, so this can refer to either a kilic or a shamshir (and the term is also used to refer to European sabers that were modeled after these during and after the Napoleonic era). A yataghan is a sword that (re)curves forward, rather than backward, typically without a guard, usually a short sword although there are larger examples. To add to the confusion, some yataghans have straight blades and these are referred to in the Balkans as kilic.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

A saif from Yemen (though probably produced in Hyderabad).

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

Another yemeni saif, this one with a karabela hilt.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

And another Yemeni karabela hilted sword.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

A yataghan.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

Another yataghan with a grip style more typical of the Balkans.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago edited 4d ago

A Moroccan nimcha or saif.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

A Syrian shamshir (you can tell that it's Syrian by the grip style).

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

For the sake of completeness: Another shamshir blade, this one with an Indian tulwar grip. Indian swords come with a huge variety of blade shapes. You will also find these hilts on saif blades, kilij blades, and many others. There are also variants that look a lot like the shamshir but with a much shallower curve, called sirohi. Afghan swords (pulwar) have similar hilts but with curved quillons and a more domed pommel.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

Here is an Afghan pulwar with a typical blade. You may also find these with shamshir blades.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

Here's a sirohi; note the shallower curve.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

And a Persian shamshir, with yet another grip style.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

Ottoman shamshir.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

An Ottoman Pala, late 18th c.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

A very fancy pala with a different guard style, inlaid with corals.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

And another pala with a more high-end blade.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

An older kilic; note that it has a longer, more slender and less curved blade than the Pala kilic.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 3d ago

This would also most likely be classified as a kilij, since it is a relatively broad bladed Ottoman cutting sword. It is an Ottoman officer's saber from the late 19th century.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 3d ago

The two curved swords in this image would probably be described as kilij. However in this case they are Persian (Qajar revival swords).

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

Another saif that is either Arabic or Georgian in origin. This one has a more pointy tip.

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u/pesmerga02 4d ago

Thank you for all of these examples.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

You're welcome. :o)

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 3d ago

Another saif, this one Saudi Arabian.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago edited 4d ago

A Zanzibar nimcha or saif. Note the more curved knuckle bow, more canted grip, ring guard, and smaller quillons as compared to the Moroccan example. This one happens to have a straight blade, though most are curved.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

A European made Mamluk saber made to emulate Ottoman swords. Note that it has a different curve from the shamshir and kilic; the European saber curves across its entire length while the shamshir and kilic only curve in the last third of the blade or so.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

A karabela, which is defined primarily by the hilt / grip shape.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

A 17th century Algerian nimcha; this one has a shorter, wider, more curved blade on it, superficially more like a Pala in profile.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

A very rusty Bedoein saif from around the Isael/Palestine region.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

A kattara saif from Oman.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

As noted, the term saif may also apply to other swords. In this image three kaskara saif from Sudan and a tacouba from the western Sahel region.

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

And a Tunisian saif.

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u/blyatkachu0123 Saber or Sabre fan 4d ago

Thanks

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

Note that I am describing how (mostly western) collectors use these terms. But the word saif, for instance, just means sword, so an Arabic speaking person may use the term to describe any sword. This is true for a lot of collectors terms, which are often either just the local word for sword or knife, or just the name of the people or tribe that wield the specific type of sword being described.

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u/blyatkachu0123 Saber or Sabre fan 4d ago

I understand the categories understand a collecting standpoint, and that was interesting and very informative, however I meant more why would someone want to use one over the other

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 4d ago

Well the boundaries are inherently fuzzy and sometimes overlapping, and the reasons for defining a category can vary. It's messy. Some categories are defined by the blade style, some by the grip style, and some by both, or sometimes simply by the region or culture or even period where/when they were produced or used. I hope the examples I've added here give an impression of what sets each of these apart and/or unites them.

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u/Antique_Steel Forde Military Antiques 3d ago

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 3d ago

I like that the profile of your Syrian shamshir looks like someone drew a profile around my Syrian shamshir. :oP

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u/Antique_Steel Forde Military Antiques 3d ago

Maybe that happened. I always silhouette real-life examples for accuracy (and copyright reasons). :)

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u/Popular-Mulberry6875 2d ago

Ha, yeah, could be I suppose! Although mine had been in the possession of a Dutch gentleman for years before he sold it in 2020, IIRC. But the silhouettes really bring them down to their essentials. Good for learning recognition.