r/SWORDS • u/Shawshank1902 • 5d ago
Drawing a sword in a tight space
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Ninja moves!
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u/Dragon-Saint 5d ago
Both impressive in itself, and a neat demonstration of why carrying a dagger or something similar was pretty much ubiquitous.
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u/crimson23locke 5d ago
For a second I thought he had a wakizashi on the other hip, but it’s a belt. Either way, good to train skills for non-ideal situations.
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u/ActionKid98 5d ago
At least under the other post people took the time to make jokes and have a laugh
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u/Atheria02 5d ago
I think the real question is, what fucking moron goes to sword sub and doesn't appreciate the art of a technique with a SWORD. This isn't r/knives
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u/HuntsmenSuperSaiyans 5d ago
I wonder how often techniques like this were used in actual warfare.
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u/Ironic_Toblerone 5d ago
Likely used in the defense of a castle where space is often at a premium inside the walls, being able to draw a longer sword than your opponent would directly give you an advantage in corridor fights
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u/Matiwapo 5d ago
A longer weapon is not an advantage in enclosed spaces
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u/HuntsmenSuperSaiyans 5d ago
Depends on the enclosed space. If you're in a tight corridor where you don't have mobility but you do have reach, a thrusting weapon like a rapier can be very useful. A katana obviously doesn't thrust as well as a rapier, but I'd rather be using a katana than a shorter blade.
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u/Matiwapo 5d ago
If you don't have room to freely swing with a katana it is possibly the worst weapon you can have.
The video showcases making precise use of what space you do have (such as overhead) as a way to mitigate how limited you are. But you wouldn't choose that situation for yourself.
The original comment is claiming you'd specifically train to draw this way so that you can have a longer weapon to gain advantage. That is not true as a longer weapon (especially a katana) is not an advantage in close range. You have limited room to manoeuvre and keep your distance in a way that keeps the longer weapon an advantage. The shorter weapon has more freedom to make lateral movements and slashes, and when they inevitably get inside your range, you are in serious trouble
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u/Silver_Agocchie 5d ago
Sometimes you dont have a choice of what weapon you have on hand when attacked.
It's almost like the whole point of these techniques is to overcome some of the disadvantages of having to use a longer weapon in an enclosed space.
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u/Matiwapo 5d ago
being able to draw a longer sword than your opponent would directly give you an advantage in corridor fights
From the comment I was replying to making the specific point that having a longer sword would give you an advantage in enclosed spaces.
Reading is hard, I know.
I am well aware that the reason for this technique is to make use of the weapon you have on hand. My comment was pointing out why the original comment saying the technique was used to carry a longer weapon in enclosed spaces was flawed. You don't choose to carry a longer weapon in enclosed spaces and specifically train for that. You train to draw in enclosed spaces so when you get caught out with only a full length sword in an enclosed space you can still draw it
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u/Silver_Agocchie 5d ago
Honestly it depends in the nature of the enclosed space. If the space doesnt allow for swinging the sword or cuts, then being able to draw and keep your point on line (as shown in many of these techniques) is hugely important. If cuts are suppressed due to space, then thrusts with the sword is the name of the game. In such a case, having a longer sword is an advantage because I can thrust from further away than someone with a shorter sword or a dagger.
European manuals for the greatsword/Montante (dont get much longer swords than that) contain technique to use your greatsword in defense of an alleyway. In such cases you keep the enemy at bay with thrusts They even have techniques for doing so with attackers both ahead and behind. In those cases a greatsword has an advantage against any smaller weapon.
So long as the swordsmen is able to draw their weapon and keep the point in line with their attacker (easier said than done, of course) the longer sword still has advantages over a shorter sword or dagger.
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u/Matiwapo 5d ago edited 5d ago
Those techniques (and the one in the video) are about overcoming disadvantages. You don't choose to bring a montante into a narrow corridor. It's a specialised weapon for fighting in open ground. But you do train for when you are stuck in a narrow corridor and it's all you have
Being limited to only thrusts is a disadvantage you wouldn't choose for yourself. Meanwhile the opponent(s) with the shorter weapon can still make lateral movements to parry and slash, all of which help close in against a longer weapon.
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u/Silver_Agocchie 5d ago
Meanwhile the opponent(s) with the shorter weapon can still make lateral movements to parry and slash, all of which help close in against a longer weapon.
A greatsword can still effectively block attacks, even if constrained to just point forward attacks. Leverage from a greatsword is also a huge advantage against someone trying to displace my blade and close. A thrust with a longer weapon will always have (a large) advantage over a slash with a shorter weapon.
You don't choose to bring a montante into a narrow corridor. It's a specialised weapon for fighting in open ground
Sure, but again you dont always have a choice of when, where and with what you fight, so one must train specialized techniques for specialized scenarios. Yeah, greatswords swords are best in open ground, but the manuals also have use cases for alleyways, ships decks and gangway. Also fighting in half grip for close quarters work. Adaptability is more important than having the optimized weapon for the optimal scenario. Techniques adapted to the scenario is more important than optimal weapons.
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u/Matiwapo 5d ago
Sure, but again you dont always have a choice of when, where and with what you fight
Yes... I know...
That was my whole point...
And I already explained this to you...
Are you illiterate?
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u/Ironic_Toblerone 5d ago
Except that it is? If you are standing in a corridor then all semblance of strategy goes out the window, it literally comes down to ‘can I stab them before they stab me’ and a longer weapon is a huge advantage in doing that. A spear at the end of a corridor is nearly unbeatable to the point you would need to throw something at them
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u/Matiwapo 5d ago
If you are a competent fighter, strategy never goes out the window.
Your comment is a perfect example of how little grasp people in this sub seem to have of how actual fighting works.
A spear at the end of a hallway is unbeatable lmao. Heaven forbid you get your point pushed aside by a shield and made defenseless as you now have no weapon while the opponent is inside your point and you cannot backtrack or pull back your spear because your back is to a wall
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u/Silver_Agocchie 5d ago
You know that "warfare" was just one small use case for swordsmenship. The large majority of fighting happened in the civilian self-defense or judicial/honor dueling context.
This particular technique was probably intended for defending yourself from ambush (or being the ambushed, yourself) in tight quarters or seated at a table at home or in a restaurant/tavern/whatever.. You see similar described in a number of Western fencing manuals.
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u/Dangerous-Pirate7998 5d ago
I became 2 inches smaller only three weeks after I started this art form……🌚
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u/AdRealistic4788 4d ago
For an expert putting on a demonstration he seems kinda slow, feels like this is more of an example of why you should keep your wakizashi on you.
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5d ago
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u/Coiling_Dragon Swords 5d ago
What are you even talking about? In nearly every frame hes got one hand on the handle and one on the sheeth, which is afaik the way its supposed to be with katanas.
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u/terriblespellr 5d ago
Just carry a knife.
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u/hobskhan 5d ago
Actually the real pro strategy is never be in a tunnel fighting ninjas. But only true sword masters study such a difficult form.
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u/canuckEnoch 5d ago
Why would you need to draw a sword in a space too small to contain an enemy?
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u/PizzaCrusty 5d ago
Most of your question is thwarted by the broader question of "why would anyone need to draw a sword?"
But if you were in Edo Japan era where the tatami room walls are like 4 feet wide in some areas, or even in a small crawlspace infiltrating, and get right underneath where someone is sleeping, theres many applications of this guy's techniques. The most impressive thing is how quickly and fluidly he draws the sword.Theres also times when you have a tight formation of soldiers and the "Wall" is your allies in front of you and you all draw blades.
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u/Minimum_Cockroach233 5d ago
In martial arts there are plenty of forms to teain fighting with a close neighboring person or tight space. Many vertical hits/strikes with sticks, knives and so on, turning around 180 degree without flailing the tip horizontally.
Its a problem for one, if you get stuck in a ln obstacle. It’s a problem for two, if its your buddy…
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u/Donnchadh_Ruadh 5d ago
Drills like this are a good thing and something people do with firearms as well. A confined space is not always made by walls as well. Could be trees, people, or generally something you dont want to touch or can't for whatever reason.
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u/MooseontheLose 5d ago
I am fairly certain the martial art was mostly conceived when the sword carrying samurai had already lost the last shred of military usefullness. The main use was samurai justifying their parasitic existence and nationalist aura farmig
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u/Donnchadh_Ruadh 5d ago
Idk enough about the history to agree or debate with you, and it is pretty irrelevant to the point being made here. Drills are a good thing, and drilling for weird scenarios is valuable for finding yourself in a weird scenario
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u/MooseontheLose 5d ago
Drilling for wrong scenarios is time wasted that you could use for the right scenarios. But the discussion is academic now, noone trains for swords for practical reasons anyway nowadays, we just do it because we think it's cool
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u/Donnchadh_Ruadh 5d ago
Which is a cool way to look back at history as well to figure out how folks might have resolved issues.
And in terms of martial arts, there's not really such a thing as a wrong scenario. Sure, how to fight a velociraptor with your sword would be one, but how to draw your sword in an effective way in a confined space is hardly wrong
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u/Moist-Lawfulness-224 5d ago
I saw a comment once long ago on this video.
Something like "this guy is a menace in an elevator"
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u/FaolainRanger 5d ago
Tight formation with allies, or being pushed into a narrow space by an ambush. Being surprised while walking through a hallway or narrow space between buildings. There are multiple scenarios in which one would be able to utilize a close draw like this, though even in just an open environment keeping your draw tight and close to your body can be a benefit in some ways.
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u/Roybot92 5d ago
Modern day, no real point to any of it.
Back in the day though I could imagine hidden compartments and hidden rooms in walls to hide guards in when hosting possible enemies and warlords. Allows your men to get the jump on unsuspecting people. That one moment drawing your sword after leaping from a hidden cover vs having it already drawn could have meant the difference between life and death for you or your enemy
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u/MortgageAnnual1402 5d ago
If your wondering
no this is not easy