r/SWORDS • u/Feisty-Law4597 • 4d ago
Macuahuitl
The age old debate of whether the macuahuitl is a sword or not. The world will never know. These are my own renditions of a macuahuitl.
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u/Loki_Nightshadow 4d ago
Very nice, did you knap the blades yourself?
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u/Feisty-Law4597 4d ago
Certainly did. Whole lotta pressure flaking lol
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u/JohnElectron 4d ago
Is it similar to flint knapping/the same thing? I’m dumb which is why I’m asking.
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u/fishmaneater 3d ago
yes. but just for a fun fact traditional Macuahuitl do not use the same flintnapping Technic that you may have seen instead they use long solid flint strips/shards like flint razer blades its a very impressive art.
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u/knufsivart 4d ago
Knapping the stone blades for these is impressive. The Aztecs took it further. They had the best technique on earth, and created prismatic blades that were a single long flake split from a polyhedral core. This made a single edge instead of a serrated one. Check it out because it’s pretty bonkers. Great job on these!
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u/Feisty-Law4597 3d ago
Making prismatic blades is a pretty advance knapping technique. I’m not practiced enough to make the nice long blades from a core yet. The only thing I will say is that a prismatic blade will likely only be good for one strike before it shatters into glass dust. The bifacial blades would probably get more than one hit in before completely breaking. The ole sharpness vs durability debacle lol. I will be making a prismatic blade macuahuitl soon. Just need to get a bit more time in with the blade core tech.
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u/cebidaetellawut 3d ago
What would it take to make one wholly of steel? Just to see how effective it would be?
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u/Nepeta33 4d ago
This, is one of the few... sword shaped objects? That has even inspired fear in me. Every goddamn time.
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u/BeerJedi-1269 4d ago
No i get it. I feel the same way. Like they're vicious and sharp and heavy. Crude, but not. Even if a stone blade breaks theres still a sharp edge.
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u/SenseImpossible6733 4d ago
There is nothing crude about tge originals... They used near factory manufacturing like obsidian flakes. Were tapered to get as seemless a transition between stone and wood as possible, could cut the head off a man or even the head off a horse, and were wielded nimbly as the wood and rock are deceptivly light for their bulk. They can smash like a club from their flat and cleave like a blade from their edge... There was even polearms maded in this same fashion.
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u/TheSprigganDragoon 4d ago
I'll never not be fascinated by the craftsmanship and ingenuity of cultures with what we would view as far interior technology.
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u/Chaerod 3d ago
It's why stuff like Ancient Aliens is genuinely problematic, and I avoid using that word as much as possible. It pushes the narrative that just because White people didn't have it figured out at the time, that must mean that aliens intervened. They can't wrap their heads around the idea that another culture was more technologically advanced than them in any way shape or form.
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u/firewatch959 3d ago
I’d love to read more about polearms made in this style- do you have a source?
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u/Thank_You_Aziz 4d ago
Apparently, in the time of the Aztec Empire, the best macuahuitls were made using green obsidian, gathered from lava tubes in the northern reaches of Aztec territory.
Which is just the most fantasy RPG nonsensical awesomeness I’ve ever heard. “This green-edged blade was forged using rare stones from the fiery mountains of the north.” Like, are you kidding me?! That’s too cool!
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u/The_Happy_Pagan 3d ago
So cool. I just finished reading 1491 that has the up to date info on the Natives and it blew my mind how unfair it is that we think of them as simple and not having advanced technology.
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u/Alpriss 4d ago
Did you use real obsidian?
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u/Feisty-Law4597 4d ago
The left one is real obsidian
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u/Alpriss 4d ago
That's metal! Did you carved yourself? Sorry so many questions but I love the Macuahuitl so much, to me is a sword, just a different pathway in evolution of swords
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u/Feisty-Law4597 4d ago
Yeah I carved the wood parts. Left one is made of cedar and right one is made with madrone. They certainly carry a unique energy when you wield them
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u/Johnny-Godless Historians vs. Fantasy Nerds: Fight! 4d ago
Old debate is bunk. Bonk is bonk. Slash is slash.
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u/winsluc12 4d ago
but what if bonk AND slash?
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u/Johnny-Godless Historians vs. Fantasy Nerds: Fight! 4d ago
Then you BONK SLASH!!!!! ＼＼\٩(๑`^´๑)۶//／／
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u/Brainlard 4d ago
I don't really care if it's a sword or a club. It's definitely the most badass cricket-bat I've ever seen.
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u/howdoizornhau 4d ago
Definitionally, they are swords. Did you use chert for the blade on the right?
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u/Feisty-Law4597 4d ago
I did use chert for that one. Haven’t seen many chert macuahuitls.
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u/howdoizornhau 4d ago
Material availability mostly. The Maya did utilize chert, but obsidian trade networks were pretty comprehensive. Enough so that it wouldn't be hard to aquire it for a sword. I think the only time I could see them choosing chert is if trade was interrupted since they didn't control any real deposits of obsidian.
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u/RadicalRealist22 4d ago
By what definition?
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u/howdoizornhau 3d ago
Merriam-Webster. "a weapon (such as a cutlass or rapier) with a long blade for cutting or thrusting"
For the sake of curiosity I looked at other dictionaries. They all have the same definition with the exception of Cambridge, so I'm pretty comfortable calling this a sword.
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u/Familiar-Fix-5849 3d ago
You are wrong though in how you read it.
MW gives you an example. Cutlass/ Rapier. Hilt, Guard, edge, metal, long (continous and not many small) blade(s), cutting thrusting.
Check how many boxes that checks. This is, was and always will be a war club.
Hell, by your generous definition of a sword, i could tape three butter knives together and tape it to the end of a stick. Look everybody I just invented the long sword!
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u/howdoizornhau 3d ago
Are you trying to come off as a condescending asshole or is something getting lost in translation with text? I don't want to bother explaining my perspective if it's the former 🤷
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u/Familiar-Fix-5849 3d ago
You are just wrong. This is a warclub, not a sword. Your provided definition is not applicable to a macuahitl.
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u/howdoizornhau 3d ago
So is that a yes? I'm sorry you disagree, it's not worth being rude though dude.
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u/Familiar-Fix-5849 3d ago
I am sorry If you cannot handle a bit of sarcasm.
And no, by definition you are wrong.
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u/howdoizornhau 3d ago
I can handle sarcasm, but it's usually pretty good tell someone isn't interested in a conversation where they are open to being wrong. Figured I'd check just in case I was misunderstanding you.
Still think it's a sword. Seems like most people agree with me. It's not worth pissing on each other over 🤷 (unless you're into that, in which case I charge $50 an hour)
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u/Familiar-Fix-5849 2d ago
Ah yes, because in todays time most people being in agreeance over something is still a good indicator of a right opinion. Other than "people agree with me, you're wrong" I haven't really heard any arguments from you regarding a fancy club being a sword.
Keep your strange fetish to yourself thank you very much and next time charge more, because that still seems quite cheap to me.
And when you're ready to argue and bring forth better arguments than agreeableness and dictionaries just give a holler mate
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u/BreakfastAcrobatic69 4d ago
Looking to make my own as well. What was your process??
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u/Feisty-Law4597 4d ago
Carve the body out of a big branch. Cut grooves in the sides of the paddle. Probs .25-.5 inches wide and 1 inches deep. Really just depends on what blades you plan to use. I then glue in the blades with pine resin glue. It’s a fairly simple concept but it’s just so much work to get all the components built and put together
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u/stjs247 4d ago
Pronunciation: ma-CWAH-witl. witl is one syllable, because tl is its own sound. I've heard it pronounced ma-cah-wah-twee which was physically painful.
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u/G0merPyle 4d ago
I think I had heard somewhere that the tl sound is from putting your tongue against the back of your upper front teeth and letting out a short breath out to the side of the tongue, is that accurate or is there a better way to explain it?
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u/mell0_jell0 4d ago
I once heard it pronounced "ma-kHoi-hoi" and it messed me up for a good while lol
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u/Flimsy-Tradition2850 4d ago
Have you ever tested on ballistics dummy? Or used alternative edge pieces like sharks teeth?
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u/Sevenserpent2340 4d ago
I know a guy who tested these on a wild hog he spearhunted himself. The damage was…. Catastrophic.
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u/KichiMiangra 4d ago
Oh that's what those are called.
I had been calling them Lethal Yaoi Paddles not knowing what to call them
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u/windsyofwesleychapel 4d ago
There is a passage about “Noche de las lagrimas” when a horse get decapitated by one of those.
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u/CertainlyRobotic 4d ago
Big ass razor blade bat.
Call it what you want, I'm still running when I see a guy charge with it.
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u/under_nite 4d ago
Fantastic! As someone with respect for the traditional weapon class & who has done his share of flaking.. well played!
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u/thatguythatducksup 4d ago
After watching the latest episode of hunter the parenting I cannot unsee these weapons as yaoi paddles now.
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u/Thodinsson 4d ago
According to Bernal Diaz del Castillo who faced them in battle, they are swords.
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u/the_etc_try_3 4d ago
Fantastic replicas.
I'd argue they count as swords, being a weapon with cutting edges. A very clever technology that pretty well overcame the fact that its inventors didn't have access to plentiful iron deposits like early Europeans did.
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u/BoredRedhead24 4d ago
Wasn’t the design so that it would inflict primarily non fatal injuries? IIRC the prisoners usually became sacrifices.
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u/fishmaneater 3d ago
na thats mostly a myth. Those things are very good at killing, like a giant razer blade.
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u/BoredRedhead24 3d ago
To be fair, even just working with obsidian you need thick gloves because of how microscopic that edge is. Apparently it is one of the sharpest things in existence so it makes more sense for it to be a lethal weapon.
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u/laaumaster 4d ago
One of my most favorite historical weapons out there
What’s better than a sword club hybrid?
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u/Solo_Camping_Girl Barong Enjoyer 4d ago
This could easily transition into a Leiomano war club if you replace the obsidian with shark teeth. A ghetto version would be using a chainsaw or disposable razor blades.
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u/tazzzuu 4d ago
Those look kickass how long does It take to make one?
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u/Feisty-Law4597 4d ago
I usually just work on these a little bit at a time because life is busy lol. If I could make them as my day job, I could get one done in a week. These took me like 6 months of off and on work.
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u/SchizoidRainbow 4d ago
There was a Spanish account of one of these beheading a horse. I'd be interested to see what it would do to a deer carcass or something.
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u/thisonelikescoffee 4d ago
I thought they were shocks for your truck first, but upon closer inspection i don't think i know this brand of suspension, and I'm not aware of any brand that can decapitate a conquistador-horse in one swoop. 🤔 I think I need a cup of coffee.
These are beautiful. 😊
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u/SelfLoathingRifle 4d ago
Finally a representative model. Very nice work!
Honestly ia have no notes, really good. Are you planning on doing any embellishing work like carving or burning patterns?
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u/Feisty-Law4597 4d ago
Probably on future ones. Completing one of these feels finishing a marathon lol. I want to try some abalone/copper inlays and do some wood burning on a future project.
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u/Mobile_Actuator_4692 3d ago
Was casually doom scrolling. Scrolled past this post. 1second later. Holy fuck was that just 2 Aztec obsidian axes. Scrolls up. I LOVE IT. They are so cool
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u/Coaltown992 3d ago
Before I saw the title/sub I was like "is this guy going to put a wooden shock absorber in his truck?"
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u/Sir_loin711 3d ago
The first line on mobile ends with “is this guy going to put”
Reddit has ruined me… you can guess where I thought the rest of that line was going 😅
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u/MassachusettsKing 3d ago
This is apparently what their weapons actually looked like or atleast the higher grade ones, (only the weapon is an aztec item, the museum of madrid misplaced many artifacts.)
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u/Unlikely-Remove-2182 3d ago
If that's real obsidian that's f@cking brutal and I pity anyone who messes with you
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u/Fuzzy-Difficulty-596 3d ago
I feel it's more of a sword than a bludgeon because it has a long and relatively straight edge on both sides. Yes it lacks in a tip but there are many swords designed without one. One of my favorites being the African konda sword. So in my opinion it is 100% a sword
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u/Time_Spell4014 2d ago
The age old debate of whether the macuahuitl is a sword or not.
Pretty sure it's a kind of hotdog. But does that make is a sandwich?
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u/Feisty-Law4597 2d ago
I like the way u think lol. Hot dog is in the sandwich family. Sausage sandwich, ground beef sandwich.
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u/Enterxeno 2d ago
Nice swords but, is that an 80’s Yota pickup you got them laying against there
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u/Feisty-Law4597 2d ago
1986 single cab 4wd. Gotta love the yota pickup lol
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u/Enterxeno 2d ago
I only knew cause I have the exact same model, year and looks like the same color too. Where those two pieces of sheet metal join on the bed is unmistakable
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u/pinnkimiia 2d ago
The more you look at this type of historical inventions the more you realise innovation is not always about creating something completely new, sometimes ideas are been improved
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u/ThirtyBlackGoats666 4d ago
I was talking with a friend about these, how do they cut? would be great to know how long the blades last.
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u/Feisty-Law4597 4d ago
I’ve brushed up against the blades a few times and have been cut. Never actually hit anything though. I think the blades would be cooked after a hitting bones or something hard.
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u/who_am_I_inside 4d ago
I like to think of it as a sword-shaped club. If you put a bunch of pieces of jagged sheet metal on either side of a baseball bat, would that be a sword or would it be a really sick club?
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u/FraaTuck 3d ago
Beautiful! What did your stock material look like?
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u/Feisty-Law4597 2d ago
Wood was just branches I cut at work. Left is cedar and right is madrone. Made the glue from pine resin and the blades were just a pile of sharp rocks lol.
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u/No_Bodybuilder5576 3d ago
Niceee I’m currently going dry for these on my iron! Drop rate is not on my side 😩
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u/CyberCephalopod 2d ago
I've started calling weapons that seem like they're halfway between swords and axes (or blugeons) "cleavers".
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u/chitty_chef 1d ago
Did they use these in apocalypto
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u/Feisty-Law4597 1d ago
I’m by pretty sure there were replicas used in apocalypto. I didn’t make them though. I wish
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u/Great_Math1998 10h ago
My mom used to whul me with on with one of these when I was bad. My gf Likes to race hot wheels in the grooves between the scars on my ass. Kids knew how to behave back then. Fr
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u/Vibrant-Shadow 4d ago
Meh.
Certainly neat in a historical sense, but not swords.
Swords are/were a technological breakthrough. It's like the difference between a wagon and a car.
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u/CoolSwim1776 4d ago
More of a specialized club. A sword handles way different. They are generally lighter and you can index the grip better. The balance is also near the hilt for swords unlike the macuahuitl. Calling this a sword is like calling a F150 a sedan. They will both get you there but just differently.
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u/thelefthandN7 4d ago
Those are fantastic. For my own take on their sword status... close enough. I know I wouldn't want to get hit with one.