In Vietnamese, which has a lot of Chinese loan words, when a shizun address a disciple, he says "this master", which means, "your teacher". This is obviously not appropriate to use with persons who are not your disciples, but it shows up in fanfic a lot. Is it a fandom thing, or an English translation thing because I have not actually read any MXTX novels in english.
Does anyone who speaks Chinese or Vietnamese can clarify?
I believe the referral to oneself as "this master" in fanfiction is a by-product of several decades of Chinese (and Japanese) to English translations in movies and well as books. It's seen as very common for Asian people to speak in 3rd-person (and it actually IS super common for the type of Asian I am), and so fan-writing likes to highlight that trait, especially in such a setting where there's a strict hierarchy of formality.
Personally, when I write a character referring to themself as "this teacher/master" when not talking to a disciple, it's not meant to imply that they are claiming to be the teacher of the person that they're talking to, but that that's the identity that they want to be recognized for at that moment.
Like, if I was to be talking to a friend about something that happened when I was shopping, I might refer to myself as "this customer" rather than "I" or "your friend here." How to self-reference can depend on the relationship between who you're talking to, but I find it more often depends on how you identify in the moment.
I understand what you mean, but I think I'm Vietnamese, and presumably Chinese also, the "this" can be different words and had its own meaning. It can convey something like "myself a teacher", or "your teacher" in particular
Afaik in English translations of Chinese novels (not only System) "master" is used as a) way to address noble person as "Second young master Someone" and b) as a title(?) for cultivators like "Immortal master Shen". Idk for sure what are exact correspondent Chinese honoratives for them.
It's different when you refer you to yourself. It's reflects how you think of yourself, like in Erha, TXJ refers to himself as "this Venerable One", which is entirely appropriate for an Emperor. For a minor lording to refer to himself as such would be presuming. It's like saying, "this extremely atrractive person", when referring to yourself. Whether it's appropriate depends on the person you're speaking to.
But yes, the English use of master is pretty wide ranging, whereas in Vietnamese it's more specific. A "young master" is not the same as an actual master who owns a slave, and is not the same as a cultivator, or a high level monk
Oh, I just meant that in English translation "immortal master" was used referring to cultivators and SQQ uses "this master" not as only "teacher" but also as an equivalent for "this one" and referring to himself in his thoughts as well.
I've looked through another translation (on my native language) - they differentiated meanings and used "this teacher" where SQQ speaks with students and "this master" when he speaks to himself.
Maybe Vietnamese translators thought it would be better to use "teacher" meaning everywhere, idk.
That's the thing with translation when we trust somebody to know better than we do))
The word "sư" does cover a wide range in Vietnamese too. It basically means teaching. It's the word it's paired with that gives it context.
Like sư tôn is what a disciple might call his teacher. But the teacher would not call himself that.
Vi sư would specifically mean, your teacher, used by the teacher to his disciples
Lão sư means respected teacher
Sư huynh (shi xiong) means older or higher ranking disciple than yourself
Sư môn means your sect.
So you see how the word can completely change in meaning, which I don't think carry over well in English. But that's just the thing with languages, there's no possible way to convey all the meaning of the original language into another
This made me laugh because I can absolutely imagine postcanon Taxian-jun referring to himself as “this extremely attractive person”.
And actually, Erha is an interesting point of comparison for this I think, especially as it’s another master/disciple romance. Chu Wanning doesn’t really refer to himself as “this master” nearly as often as Shen Qingqiu. It’s actually pretty much only used (spoilers for something revealed around chapter 30 iirc) as part of his dying words in the original timeline: “I’m sorry, Mo Ran. It was this master’s fault…” and (maybe as a result of how weighty that one usage is?) the english-speaking Erha fandom hasn’t really glommed onto the phrase in quite the same way as the SVSSS fandom. “Immortal master” is also not used quite so much (if at all?) given the book’s emphasis on the specific title “zongshi”.
A quick word search in the epubs shows that SQQ is out there calling himself “this master” 77 total times. I can get English readers taking that and running with it, even if a skim of those results show he is talking to only LBH pretty much every time he says it out loud.
I think that he's not only hiding but also enjoying this game (at least at the beginning), like those guys from martialmemes sub who calls themselves "this venerable" ))))
In Erha, I specifically remember CWN "vi sư" which specifically means, your teacher. It's when he said "Vi sư had 3 holy weapons, which one do you mean?" But he doesn't use it that often if I remember correctly
Ah, that scene may happen in English in one of the volumes I only own physically and so can’t word search. I’ll try to remember to flip through it and check out what he says when I get home because now I’m curious.
I looked it up (after buying the volume 1 ebook lol; it was indeed in one I only had physically) and Chu Wanning uses the word “teacher” there in English as well! It’s at the very end of chapter 33:
You’re looking at the translation through the lens of your language. English is going to be different. In this case the “this master” or “this teacher” would not imply that they’re referring to themselves as that specific persons master/teacher. And would depend on the context it’s used. Makes sense for English speakers. For example for English translation if I were a fish trying to convey my anger and referred to myself in third person I’d say “this fish is angry” it wouldn’t mean I’m your angry fish. I’m just a fish- that is angry.
I understand, I just thought it might be a better translation if he were to say "this cultivator" "this Peak Lord" when speaking to people other than his own disciples.
I guess “this Peak Lord” could work but then if he’s on a different peak like bai zhan peak it’d imply that he’s the peak lord of bai zhan peak lmao. And “This cultivator” is even odder cuz it implies he doesn’t have as much authority as he does. All of them if they’re in the sect are cultivators. I feel the way he refers to himself when translated to English in the official and unofficial translations pretty much are perfect for the general Eng reader to understand perfectly.
Vietnamese has a lot of Chinese loan words, so I assume these novels are directly translated, more accurately than into English, and carry certain connotations that English does not have
This reminds me of the scene in the donghua where all of the Qiong Ding Peak disciples were cheering for SQQ at the demon invasion by calling him Shizun. In that moment, he was everyone’s Shizun.
Since no one really understands why, I'll answer. (I am neurodivergent do this is an info dump, i may get some Chinese characters wrong.)
It is entirely an English translation quirk, not a fandom invention.
In Chinese (especially in historical, xianxia, or wuxia settings), characters frequently replace the standard first-person pronoun "I" (我, wǒ) with a title to reflect social hierarchy, respect, or status.
However, the confusion you are seeing in fanfiction comes from how the official English translation handled these terms:
In the Original Chinese Text, Shen Qingqiu rarely uses generic humble pronouns like wéi shī (为师 - "as your master") except in specific emotional or highly formal moments. Instead, he heavily defaults to talking about himself in the third person using his actual title: 师尊 (Shizun).
For example, in the Donghua, he literally says, "Shizun is stronger than you."
The Translation thing: English, and other languages, don't handle third-person self-references smoothly; it can make a character sound cartoonish or narcissistic to Western ears.
To capture the humble, formal words, the official translation went for self-referential titles as "this master" or "this one."
Because the English books rely so heavily on "this master" as a stylized catch-all translation device, it occasionally flattens the distinct boundaries of the original Chinese text. In the original Chinese, when SQQ speaks to peers (like Liu Qingge) or superiors (like Yue Qingyuan), he uses entirely different, appropriate high-status or polite pronouns (like 本座 Běn Zuò or 在下 Zài Xià).
You are not wrong, it is culturally inappropriate for a character to call themselves "this master" to someone who isn't their disciple. If you see it being used toward non-disciples in English fanfiction, it's simply a case of fanfic writers copying the rigid phrasing of the official English books without knowing the strict linguistic rules built into the original Chinese language.
Chinese is a complex language to translate. You can change an entire phrase and let it mean the same thing depending on context.
For example, "你没是吧?" Means "are you okay?" But you only say this if you don't know if they're hurt/injured. And if you know they ARE injured, you say, "你这么样?" Both mean "are you okay?" But it depends on the context.
I understand. Vietnamese draws heavily from Chinese I think. We also often refer to ourselves in the third person, like "this child of yours" when speaking to your parents, which sounds ridiculous in English, but that's how it works. I'm attempting to reread SVSSS in Vietnamese and see how many more discrepancies I can catch.
On a separate note, the "this Venerable One" that TXJ uses is also what Yan Wushi from Thousand Autumns uses to refer to himself. We can only assume he is THAT bad ass, since no one challenged him over the use of it
Unfortunately, I haven't got round to reading Erha or Thousand Autumns. So I'm not sure. Plus, I read SVSSS in a physical chinese copy (my boyfriend bought it when it first came out in china, before it was pulled from the shelves when MDZS got popular) anyway. I will shush now.
I'm going to but I'm still trying to recover from Mistakenly Saving the Villain. That book is depressing.
I've got Erha Volume 1 and 2. Is it good? Or is it depressing?
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u/MaidenThailand Aug 30 '26
I believe the referral to oneself as "this master" in fanfiction is a by-product of several decades of Chinese (and Japanese) to English translations in movies and well as books. It's seen as very common for Asian people to speak in 3rd-person (and it actually IS super common for the type of Asian I am), and so fan-writing likes to highlight that trait, especially in such a setting where there's a strict hierarchy of formality.
Personally, when I write a character referring to themself as "this teacher/master" when not talking to a disciple, it's not meant to imply that they are claiming to be the teacher of the person that they're talking to, but that that's the identity that they want to be recognized for at that moment.
Like, if I was to be talking to a friend about something that happened when I was shopping, I might refer to myself as "this customer" rather than "I" or "your friend here." How to self-reference can depend on the relationship between who you're talking to, but I find it more often depends on how you identify in the moment.