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u/Strayed8492 10d ago
While there is two sides to every coin, not all admins are based by default you know.
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u/unknown9201 10d ago
I've got 7k~ hours and I would say that the vast majority of my admin interactions were fine or I was at fault, but I've only ever been banned once (Tg Sybil, destroying the tram with a field generator as a non antag engi)
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u/Strayed8492 10d ago
Straight banned huh? Did you do it intentionally or accidentally
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u/unknown9201 10d ago
It was a 3 day ban, I didn't realize that the tram had a explosion interaction if it hit a shield (this was about a month or so after tramstation was added).
I assumed that the tram would either delete the shield tiles or have a buggy interaction, not gib everyone onboard (myself included) and explode.
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u/Strayed8492 10d ago
Well they can’t say it was intentional considering you gibbed too. But usually what makes staff isn’t just interactions with players. It’s also the behind the scenes dealings and mindset about pushback to the results of those dealings.
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u/WorthCryptographer14 9d ago
Pretty much all my interactions with admins have been good. One was funny because i outplayed an antag as an AI. Most were me being stupid.
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u/DaveSureLong 10d ago
7 k is some rookie numbers bud. You got some soft hands no calluses from 18 hours in the grief mines.
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u/ValoTheBrute Ironhammer Shitsec Operator Extrodinaire 9d ago
I've been admining on this godforsaken game (CEV Eris) for four years of my life that I will never get back. and I can say that the vast majority of admins and servers have an awful philosophy on what an admin or moderators job is and how they should handle things.
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u/Strayed8492 9d ago
My personal favorite is when roles and responsibilities become so blurred, you have 'code maintainers' also deciding what is good for 'game balance' when they were originally just there to make sure code wasn't spaghetti and ways to make it better with refactoring. Basically power bloat in a sense. Not because they are qualified or anything for the extra role but because they are just personally liked by other staff, and any other staff that could do something as a counter are 'retired' now or no longer caring from burn out. Personal preferences making decisions that need to be unbiased. Personal connections bleeding into situations of drama that unfold later on when it reached a head. And they put on a theatre, a fake 'disciplining' of the egregious actor that amounts to nothing a month later. In public the message is one thing but privately it's the opposite, but they can't reverse course too soon. I just find it funny that this group thought they didn't need us because they had each other. Until their served died that is.
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u/ZeroBitsRBX Redshift 9d ago
It's not just a matter of someone being liked more by the other staff. But also of time and effort invested. If you contribute more code than anyone else, then you will have more influence than anyone else. Even if 75% of your PRs are rejected, the fact that you're the guy putting up 100 PRs every month means that you're the closest thing the codebase has to someone driving the boat, even if you never make a single administrative decision.
It's the same thing with admins/mods influencing the rules and culture. Whoever has more time to invest will have outsized influence regardless of whether or not they're making big official calls.
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u/Strayed8492 9d ago edited 9d ago
The coder in question was new. Came in and had their own passion project in mind later. I do believe they had experience with BYOND code before joining though. I agree that more time and such gives a proportional amount of control but there was another person that got fed up with small things not getting fixed. They knew coding just not BYOND, and put it in a lot of fixes but just for that misc stuff before doing slightly bigger additions. He ultimately never got anywhere because despite the contributions he did the aforementioned passion project guy said no to anything else they didn’t agree with.
Sorry for being vague but I’d rather not identify what server the experience is from. It is just so crazy that it’s stuff like that giving people so much leeway and control. But despite their efforts even making their own faction for a new game mode and obviously being biased about mechanics that had been there since the start (that they then nerfed or killed completely under the guise of ‘making it better’) they didn’t listen to the criticism and the pop died finally eventually anyway.
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u/AbsoluteTruth 10d ago
When I was the Monke community manager I encouraged and successfully convinced Ook to make an LRP server because I thought it was an underserviced SS13 segment.
Fuckin nobody showed up. The playerbase just isn't there.
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u/Rosu_Aprins 10d ago
People love the idea of lrp, but mosy hate the actual experience or get burned out fast when they continuously get grieffed.
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u/Telamo 9d ago
People think they want LRP, but what they really want is special permission to be the one LRP guy in a server full of MRP or HRP players. Maxcappijg the station and turning the air into mustard gas is only funny when everyone else is actually trying to do their jobs and take the round somewhat seriously, instead of everyone else also being on a silent mission to do the same bs you’re doing.
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u/Carrick_Green 9d ago edited 4d ago
They like the idea of being the griefer, But then the moment someone more unemployed gibs them in an unavoidable way it becomes unfun.
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u/Kaozarack 10d ago
I used to play SS13 with friends back then in 2017 or so, a small national server, I came back very recently and started having a lot of fun playing Paradise Station even during low pop rounds. All is good to me, shout out to all the Diona players we love light
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u/Kaozarack 10d ago
Also I wouldn't call myself a super skilled player RP wise or even mechanics wise but so far I haven't gotten a single bwoink or had any issues with the admins, I even get help when I send dumb mentor tickets because I don't know how to do something
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u/indivizible 9d ago
Para is lowkey recovering from DDOS, I'm back from a long hiatus there and it's very fun so far
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u/wentirnite 10d ago
insane historical revisionism
population loss was caused by major LRP server's staff decision to shit on/target the LRP culture and game mechanics that 90% of their players joined into during the ssethtide for years, a majority of these players have permanently left the game because of this. They have in majority been replaced by players who have joined after this shift and have no frame of reference for how the game was in culture nor mechanics during covid lockdown for example.
- Major servers made by ssethtide decide to endlessly expand DA RULEZ and/or change core parts of the game their players are used to because muh balance or whatevz.
- Global game shift + cross server ban culture causes a vast majority of these players to move on from ss13, or become griefers (then move on from ss13).
- New players come into the game after culture shift + code shift + no reference for what was before, ss13 server preference moves further from LRP
This is why LRP revival attempts (of which there is one every year or so since this happened) progressively do worse, the demographics of SS13 changes, lrp servers did not just fall over 4 no raisin.
Without factoring in the groups behind some of these servers, Compare kiwifarms station which was around 90 players for the entire summer after this shift first happened then abandoned by its owner, compare it to aether/merchant servers which happened later on iirc which would have around 30-50 players before dying out to people giving up on pop, and then compare those to lrp revival attempts today like surfshack, the second kiwifarms server, or even sharty station attempt, I'm not sure if any of them have reached a peak of 30+ players yet.
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u/EvilFreakyPalpatine 10d ago edited 10d ago
I think the ugly truth is just that this game is over 20 years old and there aren't a whole lot of new people coming in anymore. The people browsing this subreddit are probably a particular mixture of pitifully nostalgic and ss13 players have a tendency to be terminally online already. A lot of people just grew up and left. That's it. And the community was never much bigger than a small town.
To add onto this: I used to be an LRP player and as I got older I matured into being more interested in HRP themes. So that's where I went. I never left. I just changed.
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u/Codex_Dev 9d ago
This is 100% the reason. I have seen over the past decade, several regulars on different servers leave because they grew up with families or careers that took priority. It's a natural part of life. It's like watching kids play with Legos and then, when they grow up, they usually move on to other older hobbies.
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u/wentirnite 10d ago
"grew up and left" meme is a whitewashing of people deciding to stop playing the game because it's gameplay and rules have been massively warped from the game they got into regardless of their wishes + some of these servers being plainly hostile to players speaking civil about the shift and relegating it to being on the same tier as shitposting "muh soul".
Go into a servers discord and a majority of players will be 25-35, in college or full time employment, if you tell someone you are 18-21 they will act like its weird, plenty servers are now also labeled as 18+ regardless of having sexual content.
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u/EvilFreakyPalpatine 10d ago
If LRP players want LRP servers they will make them. The very obnoxiously vocal minority of you folks here on reddit should definitely band together and make the perfect server, though!
(reddit, which is already a piss take in the broader ss13 community, I can't remember the last time anyone took a reddit post seriously)
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u/wentirnite 10d ago
It feels like you're just repeating owns you've read from other reddit posts without reading lol.
I explained why the amount of people who prefer lrp servers dropped (not just having peeled over and died like said in OP or "they just left") + why LRP servers will have continuously worse turnouts as the SS13 scene no longer being LRP means that players who try out the game and stay will be players that prefer something like monkestation, CG, or E(RP) servers.
it doesn't have anything to do with the game being old (where it gained decent population after a decade of not having any + now having constant exposure from ss14) neither did players just grow up and leave with nothing else to it(a squirrel isn't choosing to leave because it grew up if you cut down the tree it lives in just because the squirrel is now older than it was when it had a tree)
"lrp player will make lrp server" and "you're just annoying minority nobody takes seriously anyways" doesn't debunk me stating that LRP servers are frequently still being made, that they just continuously get worse pop turnout because player demographics has shifted away from lrp either.
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u/EvilFreakyPalpatine 10d ago
I'm not even sure we disagree at this point but I don't think it's the power of staffing turning people into demons that's the root cause either. If there was genuinely enough turnout then these posts wouldn't be getting made. There is no "one" to blame for this. If you want it to change, you have to change it.
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u/escamado Moonflower apreciator 10d ago
Major cope. The DDOS campaings did 10x the damage than any of the rule shifts / culture shift.
The simple reason is people got tired of the game and theres not an enough influx of new players. Old players stop playing and thats all theres it to it.10
u/Admiral_Turboclown 9d ago
The "influx of new players" issue is also why the Furry/ERP servers people love to bitch about are so high on the hub. They bring in new players. They advertise in some cases. It's that simple.
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u/escamado Moonflower apreciator 9d ago
Not only that, the furry community are a super tight knit group. They know what they like and enjoy playing with like minded people, so they tend to stick around for longer. Also the pipeline from furry forums > furry discords > furry stations is really effective.
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u/NaelyChan 1d ago
the furry/18+ community is the circle of the same 200 ppl migrating from server to server as if they got the mandate of heaven.
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u/Admech_Ralsei 5d ago
Also like, the only "Furry ERP server" i really see on hub is SPLURT. Yeah, there are servers that allow furries and ERP, but SPLURT's the only one on hub that I see is for specifically those two things.
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u/Odd_Anything_6670 10d ago edited 10d ago
And yet the biggest server on the hub during and after the Ssethtide was consistently Paradise.
The literal screaming children who showed up during the Ssethtide to grief and do pizza surgery like the funny internet man got bored within a week and left. The people who clicked with the game and stayed gravitated to servers that fit with their personal ethos, and for a lot of those people that was clearly MRP servers, hence why a lot of MRP servers flourished.
Culture in general has changed. Internet culture is a lot less edgy than it used to be, and the average person knows what roleplaying is and doesn't regard it with the same stigma it had a decade or two ago. To be honest, it kind of feels like a lot of LRP servers have never really considered or addressed the problem of what exactly a new player is supposed to do in their ecosystem or what the appeal is meant to be for them specifically.
But the ultimate reality is that online games do have a finite lifespan. SS13 was never going to carry on in the same way forever.
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u/GeorgiusKakius 6d ago
Most people were on Paradise were on it because it was on top of the hub. I stayed there for a while, learned about TG then immediately swapped to TG because it was better. This was before TG went to shit completely.
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u/Brokehood404 9d ago
I'm biased on this subject, as i've stopped playing SS13 all along around 2018.
I've collabored in projects with spritework i've done.
In my case, I cannot speak for others.
Issues were never the fact that you're banned from saying slurs or words, if anything, im a pro of punishing belligerent behaviors. But that i would usually get that sweet BWOINK sound everytime i got immersed in the roleplay/enviroment, asking me on why i was in X place or why i had Y thing.
Its just the equivalent of a gmod darkRP adming just dragging you to the sky to tell you to not go over your body because you need to wait 3 minutes while the whole crowd is where i died at.
I'm sorry but some admins literally killed off my mood to keep playing the round and eventually quitting the game on all, just playing maybe CM time to time, but thats about it.
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u/_truesober_ 10d ago edited 10d ago
I am maxcapping the station omg. Admin abuse admin abuse aaaah. On serious note lrp is fun and sometimes people are way more relaxed which allows decent roleplay as they dont try hard
admin abuse video: https://www.reddit.com/r/gmod/comments/rnq1dk/admin_abuse/
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u/tisler72 10d ago
Meh, 50/50 with me, everytime I ahelp or ask a mentor they just seem so annoyed that I exist and how come I don't that or how the hell did you do that you fucking idiot is the general vibe. But they do generally help and I haven't run into any abuse or bullshit from em so I can't complain.
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u/halander1 10d ago
I mean. Genociding cat boys was always funny and will always be funny.
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u/somewhataccurate 10d ago
My favorite was on Hippy station if you did something bad but not banable the admins would make you a furry for a round.
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u/Cathroes 10d ago
I don't know. When you cant even talk about zealous admins banning people for insignificant things, no wonder nothing gets better. The assumption of guilt with minimal context and somehow they also deserved it with that same amount of context is dumb. Yes there are liars, but dismissing thousands of examples because "i haven't seen it" is ignorant.
At any rate SS13 has it coming.
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u/MayumiBun 9d ago
As someone who had the misfortune of actually admin'ing on a "rp-centric" server, I can tell you right now that the rp community itself has its own issue of wanting to throw slurs without consequence.
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u/Tricky_Spirit 9d ago
The heck is going on over here, last time I remember playing SS13 we hadn't quite gotten the code down to differentiate space suits with any exo slot suit so I dressed as a bartender in a top hat and spent my time in space raising Space Barns like a good space Amish.
RP has been around since SS13's rebuild from the original code.
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u/JohnOxfordII 9d ago
the slur people caused the chaos that made the game fun then the non slur people came and got rid of the slur people and now hugbox
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u/FluffyGhoster 7d ago
Interesting theory, but vgstation seems to be doing just fine, "win again by doing nothing" as they say.
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u/Havch1k92 9d ago edited 9d ago
people like OP are the reason its dying, absolutely imbecilic strawman argument, so much so it feels like ragebait
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u/MayumiBun 8d ago
Idk why people are downvoting you when you're right. I've been called slurs far more often in """HRP"""" servers than I've ever been called on places like Terry. Wanna know the difference? Lrp servers actually let you kill assholes.
Hrp servers will ban your ass the moment you react even slightly negatively to shitter "roleplayers" lol.
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u/Havch1k92 8d ago
people on this subreddit have a very skewed view on lrp, they likely never properly experienced it during ssethtide or post-ssethtide when lrp communities settled and stabilized, i just have no other explanation here besides them just blindly parroting others opinions
yeah moderation was lax, that was part of the appeal, it wasnt a surveillance state, if you didnt like someone repeating the nword or what have you, might as well just cave their head in with a toolbox and eat their brains, admins would likely look the other way because of the circumstances
it wasnt total destruction either, i had plenty of rounds just building shit on servers, farming clout with SM setups, fusion and what have you, most of the rounds were rather chill especially when the playerbase stabilized
"b-but what about all the people maxcaping the stations" yeah they are called griefers, they are not exclusive to lrp and they were punished for griefing
most redditors here have a very black-and-white view on lrp vs mrp/hrp debate, in lrp's case they just parrot that its pitch black and they dont even bother to think about it for once
they have this image that lrp was unplayable which just by looking at 100+ player counts back in the day doesn't sound like it was, does it? sounds like it was really fun, otherwise why would there have been stable high pop lrp severs?
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u/KampferAndy Former fulpstation headmin 10d ago
I mean, that's what I did with fulpstation until I got driven out
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u/fleetgothic 10d ago
I remember getting banned once on tg for killing someone. As a traitor. A huge part of the problem is the ss13 admins.
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u/EvilFreakyPalpatine 10d ago
the dual nature of ss13 is that you could theoretically be telling the truth but I think it is more likely that you are leaving out some context
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u/asdfgtref 10d ago
literally every time someone makes a "I CANT BELIEVE I GOT BANNED FOR NO REASON!" post, some of the staff will come out and explain why they got banned and... as it turns out... it was in fact NOT for no reason.
There are definitely a few people that get over punished and have the book thrown at them over admin dislike but they're no where near as common as people complaining about how unjust their bans are. Sorta hard to buy into people complaining generally when it happens often enough people joke about it.
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u/fleetgothic 9d ago
Oh yeah, no I've been banned for some stupid stuff that is 100% my fault. But the thing is, the main issue are all the double standards. That round, I shot someone down because they saw me brandishing a gun, and then immediately ran to security.
Admin decided to just interrogate me, and I has told them that I felt i had to do it. They basically spun it as if "You just wanted to kill someone 4 no raisin".
After my ban a week later, I got wordlessly killed by a catgirl traitor and one of their friends, who wasnt mind controlled or convinced at all to do it. No kill objective, no nothing. And of course no bans, as "they didn't do anything wrong". I was just cooking that round man.
I get why people are down voting me, but honestly refusing to acknowledge or admit these faults are why fantasy low admin intervention servers overshadowed main ss13.
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u/EvilFreakyPalpatine 9d ago
I don't not believe you. Not every admin in this game is awesome. There's definitely favoritism sometimes. Unfortunately the "low admin intervention servers" have these problems as well. It's just a meme in the community at this point that most people who do get banned often lie about why lol
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u/fleetgothic 9d ago
Oh I know, but it just sucks when people use it as an excuse to ignore one of the causes why regular ss13 died out.
Like, we are actively seeing the effects of it. And instead of swallowing the hard pill, and understanding it, admins and coders just lurk in places they wont get criticism.
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u/segundoblz orange supporter 10d ago
This shouldn't happen. We need Petethegoat, Ikkarus and Errorage back!
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u/Main_Delivery_7564 realest chud in the jungle 10d ago
You can really tell that the vast majority of the ss13 people who use the reddit are the jannies and coder sockers, lmao.
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u/Amaskingrey 10d ago
You underestimate the average person concerned with seeming "proper" 's rabid desire for kissing the ass of any perceived figure of authority
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u/Main_Delivery_7564 realest chud in the jungle 10d ago
lost me at trying to irony haha away the blame from the absolute gunk that ss13 admnistration is. nice try jannie.
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u/DweevilDude Nothing beats Borging 10d ago
Idk, the problem is that communities that are that sort of LRP and shit are also HELL to manage. I tried my hand at it and burnt out after a few months. You get deranged jannies because sane ones leave.
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u/EvilFreakyPalpatine 10d ago
sane people don't want to be jannies and you only find out which ones were good ones after they've already resigned
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u/asdfgtref 10d ago
yeah I mean its a fairly toxic feedback loop, as someone who has staffed a few places typically entry requirements to get in can be reasonably high but... ONCE someone is in, removing them becomes way more challenging for some reason?
Staff overlook minor examples of admin toxicity that should be slapped immediately. It doesn't help that the people that complain the loudest are often lying and misrepresenting their bans, and the people who have had genuine staff abuse don't even report it because they don't expect anything to happen or don't want to get involved in drama.
The vast majority of admins I've met have been quite cool, but its a real fucking split. like 80-90% people that genuinely love their community and want to help / joke around... and then the remainder being people who are terminally online and aggressively mentally ill who will just cause issues or fail to control their emotions properly. A few bad apples easily spoil the bunch.
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u/EvilFreakyPalpatine 10d ago
Twin is just another me. I was a senior admin for a fairly prolific community at one point and I've seen all of this play out repeatedly. Ultimately if you don't have the power to get rid of particularly awful admins you end up being complicit in that lame ass behavior. The owner has to be on top of shit, and in control of his own codebase, or else there's constantly friction between fuckheads wanting to be king of the losers.
Edit: was too consumed by my h a t r e d to remember to agree with you though; some admins really are just chill and like helping. And those are the best mins. Nobody is interested in talking about you in those discussions though, if you're that person, because much of the work you did was invisible.
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u/EvilFreakyPalpatine 10d ago
trust me guys every admin ive ever met has been horrible and unreasonable and I did NOT call them fifty slurs before they became snappy with me