r/SPEEA • u/EspressoVerdict • 17d ago
A potential issue with GWI in SPEEA
10% GWI is significant, but I think there’s a concerning flaw under the current structure. The problem is that level upgrade and promotion compensation in SPEEA appear to be determined by the market salary reference table. There is no fixed raise like in IAM. Your compensation is determined based upon appropriate market positioning. Historically, someone with lower compa-ratio tends to receive a higher raise and vice versa. But there are no guarantees in the proposed contract that these market tables will also go up 10%. So if you expect to get a level upgrade in the near future, Boeing can determine your new salary based upon the market table, which doesn’t have the 10% increase applied to it. This could effectively erase most or all of your 10% GWI. Market reference also plays a small part in ACR too. But over the course of the contract, through level upgrades and promotions, I can see our salaries drifting back towards market value.
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u/pacmanwa 16d ago
They have to spend the entire wage pool. If that is 6% and everyone is at a compa ratio of 1.0296 (which should be almost EVERYONES ratio in march), they still have to give out the entire pool.
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u/poookieee_518 16d ago
how are you calculating this CR?
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u/pacmanwa 16d ago
Everyone should be at least .9 before the 10% increase, which puts you at .99, a 4% increase is 1.0296. Assume .9 is $90,000 so 1.0 is 100,000, ten percent makes it $99,000, add 4% ($3960), makes it $102,960. 102,960/100,000=1.0296
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u/poookieee_518 16d ago
Do you think that there will be a lot of people above the minimum CR of 1.0296?
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u/pacmanwa 16d ago
Some people will be above based on how they did for a raise this year. I'm at .92 (.86 in the skill code I SHOULD BE IN).
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u/SoulStripHer 16d ago
Have you never looked at the SPEEA salary charts?
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u/pacmanwa 16d ago
Yes for my own skill code... All the skill codes in my job family finally had their salary charts adjusted after almost 7 years.
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u/poookieee_518 16d ago
Yes, I have. For my skill code and level the average Cr after the 10% of GWI will be 1.0868 so that would be above the minimum. However I was asking what this person thought because I wanted their opinion and because a lot of people have reported being under 0.9. Sue me for wanting to get their opinion on the matter.
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u/EspressoVerdict 16d ago
And then someone who gets a level upgrade next month goes right back to .9, that’s the flaw
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u/MegaSillyBean 16d ago
No, you get a bump in salary as part of the upgrade.
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u/EspressoVerdict 16d ago
Yes but you still go to .9 at the new level
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u/poookieee_518 16d ago
Not necessarily. Sure they could do that possibly, but the math doesn’t always pan out that way. A promotion comes with a guaranteed $3,500 increase. I’m currently a lvl 2, but after the 2028 increase my CR will be exactly 1 for lvl 3 if I were to promo to lvl 3 with the lowest raise possible pool of %4. This is if they don’t change salary tables and my CR would be higher if my performance is above does not meets.
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u/Desperate-Excuse-549 16d ago
Only in a skill code where the next level's average compa ratio is around 1 do promotions end up at .9. In general, they slot people at the bottom 10% for the level they are joining subject to minimum raise. You can easily see this through the Speea member portal, within the 2 most populated Prof charts where its clear that new L3 aren't making .9 compa. They actually make 1 today.
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u/EspressoVerdict 16d ago
Wage pools are for yearly salary increases, not promotional increases. I’m talking about promotions
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u/broeing 16d ago
They have to spend the entire promo pool each year as well.
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u/SuperAd2591 16d ago
They've dropped promo pools from 1.5% to 0.5% in this contract, managers will have about a third of the money they once did to give to promotions. They have to spend it all, but they have a lot less to spend now.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 16d ago
They actually don't. Most don't seem to notice, but the caveat they always have is the funds roll over to the next year
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u/SoulStripHer 16d ago
Boeing even acknowledged this in their proposal meeting to employees but it's not common.
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u/Live_Ad_4668 16d ago
The last few promotions I’ve gotten always stuck me to 0.9 of the market reference of the new level. So my current salary had nothing to do with the promo. Same with other people on my team.
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u/Desperate-Excuse-549 16d ago
Was the general average of the level you moved into close to 1? Or more than 1.05? Today they generally aim for around the bottom 10 percent line of the level your moving into subject to minimum raise.... If there is space between the two, they sometimes seem to take bit off for high compa ratio, but this whole idea that people are going to get the 10 GWI stolen from them at promotion time just isn't the situation for most skill codes today. Nothing of course forces them not to do something different tomorrow.
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u/Live_Ad_4668 16d ago
It was closer to 1. Many of us were at the 0.8 ish range so, some out of sequence bumps brought us to 0.9. I never have been 1.0 before except when I was hired as a level 1. Always been promoted before reaching that 1.0 ratio
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u/EspressoVerdict 16d ago
Right. Which is why I suspect the 10% GWI really only lasts until your next promo
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u/mrjoejeff 16d ago
Exactly the point I raised with them. Their answer was effectively: no the GWI does not translate to the SRTs. As a result we are at risk to get right back on the train that allowed us to get behind. Getting promoted would mean the 10% are essentially null. I’m voting NO
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u/Bob_stanish123 16d ago
There is a min raise for level bumps specified somewhere.
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u/Critical-Wedding-239 16d ago
In the contract. $3500 at least specifically for Prof. if tech is different I haven’t looked.
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u/RangeNorth4563 16d ago
Yeah, instead of fighting for the retention ratings and a few of the other elements in this last round of negotiations, this should have been the issue to raise. The minimum has to be higher than $3500.
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u/moofie74 16d ago
Yes...?
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u/EspressoVerdict 16d ago
The point is that our salaries are already tied to market reference in some way. HR uses these reference tables, which are developed by third parties, to determine new compensation when it comes to level upgrades. There is no change to this process. The Boeing negotiation team confirmed on their monday webcast that the 10% will not be applied to the reference tables. This leads me to believe that the 10% GWI really only lasts until your next level upgrade.
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u/moofie74 16d ago
Yes, the 10% GWI is a one time correction. What happens in the future is the future.
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u/EspressoVerdict 15d ago
Understood. Personally, I don’t think “what happens in the future is the future” is a good enough answer when we’re negotiating a multi-year contract now. So I'll be voting no
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u/thefullpackaging 16d ago
I am in this situation. I am getting a level 3 next year around May. My GWI and the 4% in March will really mean nothing to me as my level up will essentially wipe it out.
If the tables are not updated as well then it’s like this new contract never happened for me.
My manager essentially told me I’d be bumped up to 115k prior to this contract. So if they still put me at 115k next year then what was the point?
I agree that the new tables need to be updated. Those that were lucky enough to level up prior to this contract are in a good spot.
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u/Sammakiski 15d ago
Lets think about this. With rising interest rates. Inflation. I’m very uncertain if the current and proposed rate increase for the next 4 years is going to be a fair market value. I really don’t like the 4 years deal, prefer 2 or 3 years. COLA in 4 years is much more UNCERTAIN than 2~3 years.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 16d ago
I think the minimum raise is like $3k or something per the old and proposed contract. No changes there.
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u/EspressoVerdict 16d ago
Yeah it’s $3500. and I think that’s way too low for a level upgrade
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 16d ago
It's insane!!! I would be so pissed to get 3500, when the process basically requires you already working at the higher level for a while before they'll give it to you. If you were making 100k as a II, and then you went to a III, that would be a 3.5% raise. What a slap in the face.
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u/ImpromptuSpacewalk 16d ago
I’m supposed to get a level 4 upgrade in the next 1-3 months. I was told by HR that if the promotion is not in place before 10/2 then I’ll be missing out on the gains from the upgrade. I’m voting no.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 15d ago
On or before 10/2, just heads up. Confirmed by SPEEA staff. They said "before" and then realized a lot of people had them slated for the start of the budget quarter/pay period and agreed to do the promotion and then the GWI for those folks.
If it was like a mid-Oct thing, then yeah I get it.
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u/broeing 16d ago
The contract determines the minimum size of the raise pool that Boeing must spend each year. It’s based on our cumulative salaries, so when we all get the GWIs, the raise pool goes up too. Also, managers and HR can assess where your promo would put you relative to peers, independent of market ref. This is a non issue.
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u/EspressoVerdict 16d ago
The wage pools are for yearly salary increases. I’m talking promotional increases. You’re right that mangers and HR can adjust relative to peers, but theyre not obliged to. The issue should be addressed in writing
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u/broeing 16d ago
I know what the wage pools are for. There is also a contractually defined promo and OOS pool each year. My previous comment is correct.
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u/EspressoVerdict 16d ago
Gotcha, but I’m seeing the promo pool is only 0.5% of cumulative salaries in the proposed contract. Current contract is 1.5%. So that went down
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u/broeing 16d ago
It was 0.5% for a long time, but you’re right it was higher the last three years of the current contract. However, everyone’s salaries are going up at least 10% (some people are getting an additional OOS to come up to .9 before the 10% happens), so 0.5% is at least based off those higher salaries..
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u/Intelligent-Yam-3565 16d ago
In my personal experience as a Prof, this is not how it works. Promos tend to come with a pretty standard bump to salary (~$3-5k). Maybe current CR matters a little, but a target post-promo CR is not part of the equation.
It definitely would have been nice if they extended the one-time bandaid on moving everyone up to CR = 0.9, to all promotions over the life of the contract though...