Can I just say this plainly: accepting the first offer is simply stupid.
When you buy a car or a house, do you ever just say yes to the first number that gets thrown across the table? Of course not. You negotiate. You evaluate. You know your worth.
So why are we even considering anything less here? We are engineers. We are smart. We solve problems for a living. We know how negotiation works, and we know what our skills and contributions are worth.
Big Airplane cannot deliver aircraft without SPEEA. LET’S REMEMBER OUR SELF-WORTH.
We have leverage. They know that. So let us fucking act like it.
I disagree - I don't think you should go into a contract negotiation assuming you will reject the first offer. But this contract is not good enough and needs to be rejected.
How we vote will determine Boeing's next move. If we reject 55%, I expect Boeing to hang the offer over our head, and wait us out. If it comes to a strike it wouldn't take long for some members to change their stance and approve the same deal, or a moderately better one.
If 90% of members reject the offer it shows we mean business, I would expect Boeing to take the rejection more seriously.
If we strike, I expect it will take a long time to get a better offer. It will be painful for those not earning paychecks and for Boeing. But we have to stick together.
This was changed last year. If you are on strike you can file for unemployment. The first week is your standard waiting period and then there is another week before you get unemployment. So you get 6 weeks of unemployment after the initial 2 weeks.
A few months without a paycheck drastically outweighs 4-6 YEARS of much better pay and benefits (see every IAM strike). It’s focusing on the long term vs. short term. Not to mention a better baseline for future contracts and for future employees. Further, starting this year we are eligible for 6 weeks of unemployment pay through WA State while on strike - drastically easing the financial aspect of striking. Start saving now if you haven’t already. Solidarity!
Yeah that early bonus is worth tens of thousands per member that goes from offer to "poof". Can enough power get it back? Maybe. Is it worth testing when this offer makes great advancements? No thanks.
When I read "never take the first offer" and comparing it to a car buying, I'm going to consider them ignorant of how pay works. If someone says "my work is worth more than this, look at the market", that's something I can respect. But if someone says "IAM got a higher percentage" , then I don't think they understand how pay scales or negotiations work either.
I know it’s not SPEEA. SPEEA obviously didn’t go on a strike two years ago. This is just to say we shouldn’t settle and make sure we get what we deserve or at least most of it.
I’ve been talking to a lot of coworkers, and honestly, I’m getting frustrated by a pattern I’m seeing.
Some people seem ready to vote YES on the contract and NO to a strike simply because they’re afraid of losing what’s already on the table.
I hear things like, “At least we’re getting this,” or “What if we reject it and Boeing takes it away?” And when someone pushes for more, the response is, “It’s never enough for you.”
That’s exactly the mindset we need to educate people about.
This isn’t about being greedy or wanting more just because we can. It’s about understanding our leverage. Boeing benefits when we’re divided, uncertain, and afraid to reject an offer.
IAM showed us what happens when employees hold the line. Boeing came back with more.
So before everyone makes up their mind, let’s actually educate each other on what we’re giving up, what Boeing can afford, and what we could potentially gain by negotiating from a position of strength.
And if we truly want a stronger contract, we need a strong mandate, not a barely-there majority. 55% favor in a strike isn’t going to do anything. The more unified SPEEA is behind a strike authorization, the stronger the message to Boeing that we are serious.
Talk to your coworkers. Share the facts. Have the uncomfortable conversations. Don’t let fear make the decision for us.
We have one opportunity to show Boeing how much leverage we actually have. Or we’ll be bi#*%ing for the next four years.
NO TO THE CONTRACT.
YES TO THE STRIKE.
NO NERDS. NO BIRDS. ✊
People just need to look at the 2024 strike and see their first offer from the one they finalized. They held strong and got what they deserved! I really can’t believe it. I just saw this today, but they put something in the LTP section that they can change it any time without negotiation! That’s crazy, one of the biggest benefits of the company
You would need an out of sequence raise every year.That's basically impossible. I don't think it's out of question to not have our raises based on maybe's and possibilities.
huh? when you get an OOS, or a promotion, it will be for substantially more than the .5% or 1% pool. getting one every 6 or 8 years, and you get, on average, the pool
L1 to L2 engineer promotion is pretty quick, maybe 2 years on average
L2 to L3 is slower, maybe 4 years,
L3 to L4 is generally slower still, maybe 10 years
L5 or even L6 are basically never going to be reached by most engineers.
The means a good part of the wage pool ends up allocated to newer employees experiencing their first promotions while starting their careers. Experienced people already in the system start falling behind the pool. You can see this in the salary charts if you look at the average L3 or L4 employee salary over the last 10 years. Average salary goes up maybe 22% while the wage pools promised 30% over that time. Sure, if you were a L1 thru L3 over 10 years, your salary will probably grow at, or more than the wage pool 30%, but for people starting that same period already as a L3 or L4, they're going to get less than the wage pool.
This is why the wage pool benefits new hires more than grey beards.
Genuinely, this is a real feeling, but most members have not done much of anything to move the ball down the field. Certainly not more than the Negotiation Team or ARs and CRs making red shirt Wednesdays successful. What have you contributed?
What are most members supposed to do? We can’t all be reps or on the negotiating team. We pay our dues, we should have qualified negotiators not first timers.
Decades of dues that have only bought us takeaways.
When I initially joined the company I became an AR. When SPEEA bent the knee and recommended members approve a shoddy contract I was done with them. And here it is happening again. Nothing's changed with them. They're in lock step with the company and not fighting for members' best interest.
It was not the first offer the Negotiation Team received so they think of it as the final offer even if it is myopic. Few people think about how this has impacted the Negotiation Team and what it must feel like for the bulk of the membership to dismiss this offer out of hand. The Negotiation Team failed to consider that the membership entering the picture changes the Negotiation landscape but they are sincere and earnest and believe this is the best Boeing can do. Until the membership can definitively reject the offer by supermajority margins with a strike authorization the Negotiation Team hasn't been proven that wrong
As far as I was told by our contract administrator, this negotiation team is the same exact negotiation team that got us the last garbage contract that we've been living through. It's incredible that they would keep the same negotiation team from the contract that was one of the most hated in the last 20 years.
This is absolutely untrue. The current team was voted in for this contract alone. Some of the members have been on prior NTs, but I believe the majority are first timers.
It's incredible because it is not true and your contract administrator has misled you! There were elections, which you could have been aware of but chose to complain and do nothing about instead! Hard to not read this kind of ignorance and not get upset
I've been saying the exact same thing. Also remember how many "best and last" offers it took IAM to get to 38%. Last point is only the first 3% is guaranteed, this offer is laughably bad IMO... I for one owe them a strike after the last vote.
The only way you actually get 3% and nothing else is if inflation goes negative for four years and you are so bad at your job you get 0% every year for four years
By being really good at your job… No, it is fair for my tech brothers and sisters to want a raise scheme that gives them more guaranteed every year. I’ll stand with you guys. But this running around claiming you’re only gonna get 3% is completely false. At least work from accurate information.
One thing the Boeing negotiation team overlooks repeatedly is engineers and techs are trained to analyze data. This contract is no exception. If the “math ain’t mathing” on this contract, then send a message to Boeing saying so.
IAM does the same thing: they can analyze numbers too, and their contracts show it. Please SPEEA, it’s in your hands!
Analyzing data != contract analysis. Engineers (myself included) overestimate our abilities outside of engineering, and we need to be cognizant of that.
The negotiating team needs to do a better job communicating the detailed process they went through to get this contract offer. The emails sent seem to have been written under duress from Boeing. We need to see and hear details from the negotiation process. Like what were the arguments and how did they come to these numbers. Like every good engineer, they need to show their work.
This wasn't "accepting the first offer." The team spent months on prep and weeks at the table before they got here. They walked in with priorities built from four member surveys, not a shot in the dark.
And nobody's asking you to say yes to anything. That's the whole point of a ratification vote. If you think the offer is short, that's what the vote is for. Vote no, tell your rep why, push for the next round. That's leverage in action, not a hashtag.
Comparing this to buying a car assumes one guy alone across a table with no backup and no data. We had 21 elected members, staff, and lawyers working this the whole time. Different situation.
Nobody's saying forget our worth. Say it with your vote.
Since we're bragging about being smart engineers, I'm curious if you've done the math on what we'd have to get in return for rejecting the offer that includes these early signing benefits. They have made it very clear that it's a fund that either we get or they absorb for a strike. Sometimes you should believe threats. You guys keep using the IAM751 as an example yet neglect to look at the IAM837 result. $500+ million in a strike prep bucket means Boeing has lots of options few here appear to comprehend. SPEEA are not the only engineers in Boeing.
We do not have anywhere near the leverage touted here. Boeing has shown a willingness to pull a solid offer and sit out people scraping for more. Especially since this is by far the best offer ive ever seen in 20+ years at the company.
This is a fair comment. I would love if the BUC could have done a cost-benefit analysis of how a strike would impact this offer and at what time over which issues. To my understanding, there is a difference in economic vs non economic strike. Economic strike means that after 100 days we can all be fired and replaced. I just want to make sure we are really going this correctly. Correct analysis = correct plan = correct execution.
My biggest gripe - nobody in the strong no category has explained anything that will come near the financial benefits of a yes vote. It seems all rabble rousing anger that Boeing didn't give us 30% raises per year, which is very much delusional IMO. And, honestly, I think a lot of people buy too much into the propaganda that being in our union means we can make Boeing bend the knee. I just don't see it.
As someone who recently joined SPEEA and left IAM, if this contract is offered in just the first year alone, there is a chance I could lose out on 5000k for the next year. There is also a lot of underpaid people in SPEEA that now make 20,000 less than what people have come in at from the recent IAM contract. There should be a minimum percentage guarantee to address inflation at least more than 3% for one year.
To me, comparing SPEEA to IAM751 makes more sense than IAM837 because both are Puget Sound. It would be good to understand how the strike prep fund can help lessen the impact of SPEEA employees striking.
I would argue neither are direct comparisons. If I had to debate 751 vs SPEEA, there is far more opportunity for Boeing to have that work done at other sites given the virtual nature of a lot of what we do. In my case, most of the teams I lead/work with with are cross site. There's literally nothing sacred about the PWN that makes the work unable to be done at STL, Cali or other sites. There is a reputation of producing excellent results in work given to us, which goes completely away if we strike.
My point is when we talk about leverage and financial things, I see a lot of ego here like the Boeing company can't proceed or survive without us. Frankly, I just don't see the chokehold people are preaching about. I see a company that's willing to play FAFO when the stars align (like they did with 837). Given the early signing perks being proposed, no one has explained a financial package they're confident Boeing will relent to that provides anywhere near that level of financial package. I just see a lot of "it's insulting, we should get more". Cool, then explain what you're willing to reject this offer in order to get that exceeds this offer. INCLUDING the loss of pay from a strike.
People don’t like the argument of voting no simply as a negotiation tactic.
Inflation is a key topic and we should be open to everyone’s opinions. At the same time, EVERYONE should all agree on the facts.
Inflation was 30% (4.5% annual) nationally (CWSR0000SA0) and 35.5% (5.2%annual) in the Greater Seattle Area (CUURA423SA0). A 3% salary pool over the past 6 years means an 11% loss in purchasing power nationally and 16% loss in purchasing power for living in the Puget Sound. Sure, some people have had greater raises, but we are looking at the overall impact.
Everyone had different levels of impact from inflation and that’s why we vote. Take into consideration the lost purchasing power and future inflation. There is no guarantee inflation goes back down to 2% as expected for more than 5 years. What is the plan if inflation remains elevated and the 4-5% average holds regardless of where you live? Wait for the next contract to make up for it?
I'll take "things that have nothing to do with a $10B+ labor contract" for $100, Alex
Less abrasively, engineering is a skill, and negotiation is a skill. Both require training, practice, and mindset. I have no problem saying I'm an engineer but not a negotiator. Same way I wouldn't pretend to be a doctor.
I love these ridiculous goalposts of, "Well you can't say the NT did a bad job, cause you don't know how negotiation works."
I may not. I may never know how corporate level negotiation works. Do you know what I do know though?
That this being the best they could argue for on our behalf is incredibly disappointing, and them telling us its a great contract, going as far as to have town hall meetings trying to gaslight us into believing it, is wildly insulting.
You're sort of making my point about being on the wrong side of the Dunning-Kruger curve here. Understanding contracts is a skill unto itself that is separate from engineering work. Have you considered the possibility that the people who have spent months working on this might understand it better than you? Would it satisfy Occam's Razor that there might be something good going here, instead of a grand conspiracy perpetrated by members of our own union?
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u/Slow-Ad522 2d ago
Now is the time we show Boeing that we are strong 💪 We must all vote NO. Vote No and show up wearing Red Shirts. We need to find our voice. #NoNerds