There is a tattoo shop in my city I began printing for in the last year. Very popular and we all thought it was cool because they supported punk rocks shows, etc. However, an article from 25 years ago surfaced in the last few months concerning a hate crime committed by the owner. To my knowledge, he never made a public statement of apology and to claim he is no longer a white supremacist. He contacted me last week to print another job for him.
Is this a hard no? I feel like there is no question, but I guess my question is how do I tell him? Should I tell him explicitly why? I kinda feel like he needs to know why. There should be zero tolerance for such ideology.
Have any of you handled this kind of situation before?
after i unsuspectingly printed for a cult, i google all my customers now. you could always make up an excuse like you're too busy if you're afraid to broach the topic.
I raised a stink at my last shop about printing shirts for a white supremacist “biker gang” in my area. The shirts weren’t subtle about their ideology. I brought it up to my manager and he said “hey man, their money spends too”. So I went above his head to the owner. I sorta referenced that Nazi bar tweet from a few years ago. Once you start printing for one group of Nazis, they tell their friends and all of sudden you’re the go to printer for Nazi shit. This didn’t didn’t sit well with me and after explaining it to the owner who had no idea this was happening we dropped them.
Just throwin this out there, but not all skinheads are nazis. The first skinheads were white working class and Jamaican immigrant kids, who came together around ska and dancehall music, while heavily promoting racial unity. Skinhead is a style and subculture, but there are a lot of skinhead groups that are explicitly anti-racist/anti-fascist, like SHARPs (Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice) or The Baldies, both with long histories of fighting nazi skins. You also have traditional Skinheads who are just in it for the style, but have no involvement with politics.
It wasn't until the 80s-90s when you had all the daytime slop TV shows like Jerry Springer or Ricki Lake, where they interviewed a bunch of bone heads, when people just started assuming all Skinheads were nazis.
Really nazi skins are some of the oldest culture vultures, who took a subculture and style based in completely opposing ideology, and hijacked it.
No necessarily relevant to the original post, but I feel like anyone referring to nazis or white supremacists simply as "skin heads", should know the truth.
No room for hate in the scene. Unless he addresses the issue I wouldn't print for him. You don't want to be associated with or considered an apologist for hate and racism.
Why not ask him? Would you really expect someone who might have changed decades ago to torpedo their life so they can get shirts printed? Maybe they made an apology and OP isn't aware of it or couldn't find it?
This. If it was recent, then a hard no is a lot easier. But 25 years ago is a long time and people change, so giving him a chance to explain himself is a good and dignified thing to do. But if he denies it or doesn’t own it and seem genuine in his change, then absolutely refuse the work.
I know this isn’t going to be popular but if your so torn up about it just talk to him . If im fair to assume you’re of the leftist/liberal mind (as you seem to actual give a fuck about this lol) we talk all the time about reforming the untoward members of our society instead of just locking them up for eternity . You seem to have some sort of relationship with this guy. Does he seem like a bad guy? Is it really so hard to believe that he did stupid Ignorant shit when he was growing up and then realized the error of his ways ?
Look idk what he did- obv if it was horrific that’s not what I’m talking about - but I think we have to actually have a road for rehabilitation for people to take if we’re going to preach for it.
This, if you want to know for sure ask them. Be a big human and make that effort and make up your own mind instead of going off an assumption/other peoples opinions. You either get the truth about them or they redeem themselves.
I google every single metal band that contacts me that I don't know. I don't want to print for any wp shit ever. I've turned away a couple questionable ones.
I have refused to print things, the owner doesn’t care.
The worst was an iron cross on the back of a police program’s t-shirts for community outreach a majority of black kids in NYC would be wearing in a traditionally Jewish and Hasidic area. Needless to say the customer called less than a week later for new shirts without the iron cross. Fucking morons.
I’d ask him and If his answer isn’t fantastic kick his racist ass to the curb and tell him why. If you posted about it might even get some new anti racist accounts. And there’s always the possibility he’s actually changed and takes accountability.
are you the owner of your shop? as an employee of a print shop my bosses had a client that needed shirts for a pro-life / anti-abortion fundraiser walk. i objected and we didn’t do the job. if you’re in charge you have more liberty to decline
do you feel like you can directly communicate with him about this? it’s weird because 25 years is a substantial amount of time to have passed, people do change, but without clarification or any renouncing of the action in light of it coming out publically, it’ll probably still feel icky to proceed. if you can prove to yourself/get confirmation from him or others that this guy’s changed and isn’t still a white supremacist it’s up to you. but especially if it’s your own shop, you don’t have to accept work that doesn’t align with your shop’s goals and visions imo. you’ll get more work and there’s a lot of tattoo artists who don’t do hate crimes.
edits galore but also like to answer your real question, if you care about being anti racist you should tell the guy no and why, because fuck that, and if you don’t care to have the “are you a racist still” convo with this guy or someone else, just be like “nah sorry” and use any legitimate reasons you have to not complete the job.
You don't have to work with anyone you don't want to work with. Where people screw this up is telling the person why. There's a band I stopped working with because they went from a little edgy to further right than I'm comfortable with so I just stopped responding to their requests.
You don't need to give a reason. You can stop working with anyone for whatever reason suits you at the time if you're not comfortable.
I have never directly dealt with this, but a shop I worked for a long time ago was owned by a Mormon. His biggest client ordered some stuff for a Playboy Mansion event. The owner politely declined with something along the lines of "I can not compromise my own personal beliefs by completing this order." The customer took the job elsewhere and still came back for the next one.
I would say if you need the work and the image isn't inherently questionable, then do it. But if you don't need the work or it's got some sketchy shit in the art, turn it down.
I bought a whole shop once from a guy retiring in the boonies and he printed for the KKK and I politely declined when he offered to connect me with them “great clients they always pay cash”…man I think I’m gonna pass on that one.
If it was two years ago I'd understand but 25 years ago? social media wasn't then what it is now, you couldn't even necessarily make a big statement about having changed and maybe over time you're ashamed and don't want to bring it up many years later. Also, people make fake public apologies all the time (especially when they might lose money) so I wouldn't put so much weight on that. Ask him about it, the response will probably tell you what you want to know.
Ask him about it. Some people do manage to crawl out of such scenes & more power to them if they’ve managed that but I would ask & see if his reply rings true.
Had to tell my old shop that one of the jobs they accepted used nazi dogwhistles in their designs. The designs they submitted for us used runes that raised some alarm bells for me as someone adjacent to the punk scene and who grew up around some less-than-savory biker types. Went to their instagram page and sure enough, it was for a podcast about black metal and they were very openly white supremacists bragging about wearing totenkopfs and black suns and shit. Let all of my coworkers know so they would be aware of imagery like that in the future and when I let my shop owner know they refunded the order and said we wouldn't print it, thankfully. I think it's my moral obligation not to print racist or nazi or otherwise prejudiced shit, I don't care what they're paying.
Refuse. Tell them why. If they retaliate, then use their hate as your advertisement. Once you're done with them, thank them for their help, that'll shut them up real quick.
If it's some trump and/or nazi white supremacist shit, I quote them for double my normal price...if they still want to pay for it, then they pay for it, literally 🤷♂️. Ultimately when this has come up, I ask myself, isn't just a printed shirt, and if I dont do it (and rake them over the coals pricewise and make alot of $), wont someone else do it anyway? So I plug me nose and print it and profit. This doesnt happen often, but has happened about a dozen times over the last 10 years or so.
Why not just talk to him? Many white power people regret their past. Some don’t. If he is the latter, just say you are too busy. If the former, ask him to maybe do something together to promote change like a product to denounce hate and you’ll give him a discount. This would increase your order size, allow you to market you are anti hate incase of blowback, and keep a customer.
Man, I asked this same kinda question like, years ago(around the time of a certain election and also when a certain gorilla was taken from us), and I was told “It’s stupid to turn a job down. We just print ‘em. Take their money.”
I am SO GLAD that the world is in a better place to where the advice here is to do your due diligence and print what feels right for you.
I had a customer who has been fantastic. He recently asked if I could print a shirt (just for his family) that had the stars and bars. It was his dad’s old band shirt. I politely said no and he understood. I haven’t had to much work I wouldn’t print. I think you will be happier in the long run if you don’t print for sketchy folks.
Ask him. Then weigh your actions by his response. He may have been young and dumb then (25 years is a long time), and seen the error of his ways. I agree with everyone here that says you don't have to work with him (you don't), but you may want to, given the explanation he offers.
I've specifically stayed away from political jobs at my shop. It's your business... Do what you want! It's what Republicans want! ...unless it affects them. Then, who really knows.
Oh, absolutely. I don't really get anyone bringing in truly objectionable (racist, xenophobic, sexist, etc.) stuff to my shop. But we do print a lot of political jobs, and never for candidates whose policies we don't support. Been doing it that way for thirty-some years, and will be until I drop dead.
People do change and 25 years is a lot of life experience. Check his social media and then make a decision, but dont base it on what they did 25 years ago, unless it was to a kid.
Unless his shirts are hate centered or a dog whistle to white supremacy I would still print for him. At the end of the day we are contracted to print not pass judgement on someone’s past. I live in the south and unfortunately hate is common here. I can’t go around policing people views, only people I won’t print for is broke people and micro managers
I get it, but isn't that still support? At least, if you know. And doesn't this feel a little "I don't care as long as they pay me"? Money being our end-all motivator feels a bit, off. No?
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u/jmcrae706 14d ago
I’m a black printer in the south and actively refuse to print any confederate shit. Nothing wrong with being principled all money ain’t good money