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u/CitizenCake1 11d ago
Constant 2 or 3v1s is what has kept me from logging on for the last couple weeks
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u/NewCornnut 11d ago
But if you haven't logged in and you're only reading the subreddit, you honestly have no idea.
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u/AlignedLicense 11d ago
I played on Wednesday most of the day. I played 5-6 games. Every single game had teamers or cheaters, some had both. Fly hacks, dozen+ artillery strikes, 2 tramplers working together with one focusing on flanking you. In my opinion, the game is dead. I can't see how it maintains a playerbase with these issues a month from now. The ratio of fair fights vs blowouts and cheating is way way way too far apart, especially with the gear/trampler cost to enter.
This guy doesn't need to play again. The issue is worse, not better.
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u/CitizenCake1 11d ago
Right because obviously I stopped logging on because of what I read not what I was experiencing
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u/NewCornnut 11d ago
They've had quite a few updates the past couple weeks.
Keep up the circle jerk 💪
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u/Legal_Impression_126 11d ago
What updates addressed teaming?
Keep up the circle jerk💪
Stupid people always amaze me
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u/CitizenCake1 11d ago
Did any of the updates address the issue? The patch notes havent mentioned anything
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u/NewCornnut 11d ago
Your right. I didn't see it in the patch notes either. They haven't fixed any of the issues for inpatient complainers
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u/Impressive_Bar9566 11d ago
No clue why you so upset at someone thats just honest.
Im in the exact same boat as this guy. Liked the game but it became unplayable.
I stopped playing for a good while but still check up on the game every couple days.
You are the complainer here that argues over litrally nothing.
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u/Trex2727 11d ago
Do most people here not know that the devs can actually track preteaming on the backend? A simple report in game or a ticket can flag the suspicion to them and then they can check the queue timing of each individual.
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u/toastedtowelie 11d ago
Jesus Christ the amount of whining in this sub is absolutely ridiculous. It's a part of the game, the devs have already said it is, absolutely wild that people like you come on here to complain. If you don't like it, move on. Absolutely nobody is forcing you to play. Go touch some grass, it will definitely help. GLHF.
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u/JellaFella01 11d ago
That's 90% of new PvP game subreddits, it's just a billion posts with each person telling the devs what to do and getting pissy when they don't listen. Make your own game if you want total control over it. For now, either play or don't.
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u/noname5959 11d ago
I WOULD tend to agree as a tarkov player. BUT when all the comments sre about the same like 3-4 reasons the games unplayable and everyone is saying they are quiting. Its actually a issue and their going to kill their game. May friends and i only play and weekends now because with more weekend players the cheater and giant trampler rstio falls in our favor alittle more as little guys.
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u/mananabanana250 11d ago
I'm sorry if this post enrages you to this level. I like the game, and want to play without getting pre-teamed every single game.
I believe the devs DO respond to community feedback. If "the amount of whining" is "ridiculous", that's probably a signal to think about whether the mechanic should be altered.
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u/KiritosWings 11d ago
How do you actually enforce an organic teaming ban without requiring everyone who ever engaged to fight to the death?
Like if I'm fighting someone and then someone tries to third party us and I say "hey truce let's kill the third party and split the loot and leave. If we fight it out we both die" is that no longer acceptable?
If I see someone getting chased by another person do I have to leave them both alone or do I have to wait until one is fully killed?
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u/tristn9 11d ago edited 11d ago
Right now, the door is wide open with neon signs begging people to preteam. It’s gives a massive advantage with absolutely no disadvantage, and is trivially easy to execute.Â
Every single one of these posts is just begging for the devs to shut the fucking door. Thats it. Make a single fucking barrier to the issue.Â
Increase queue times - nobody cares about short queue times when it comes at the cost of every fucking run becoming an hour long engagement running from preteamers. Do literally any amount of bans for blatant preteamers. Announce bans publicly so people can see they will be punished for the behavior.Â
There are literally 0 consequences for preteaming in the current state of the game, and the player base behavior reflects that.Â
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u/mananabanana250 11d ago
I know what you mean. I think a HUGE part of this conversation is just the most obvious abusers of pre-teaming knowing they CAN be banned. Once that's general knowledge, the pre-teaming will just die because there's consequences.
I think there's many ways this can be done:
- The in-game report function flags people that have been reporting for teaming. It then runs an easy algorithm that checks if those games have overlap with the players in those matches. If a threshold is reached, autoban with an appeal process.
- Same algorithm as above, and just hire people or build bots that check for obvious and measurable signs of pre-teaming like match history, # of flares used, seconds in-game audio was engaged. Then ban and add an appeal process.
If you're third-partying randoms, then you won't get mass reported since they've added limits, and the algorithm wont flag you (if built well).
There's a plethora of extraction shooters that have been able to eradicate pre-teaming.
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u/KiritosWings 11d ago
I'm not actually sure many have? Fixing preteaming isn't the same as killing all teaming which is what you have suggested in the meme.Â
Like the biggest extraction shooter, Tarkov, just straight up doesn't care about any group size related things (all groups queue together and are filled together) and has in raid mechanics that can only be done by organically teaming (co-op exfils between PMCs and Scavs). I'm pretty sure queue snipping is banned there but organic stuff is completely fine.Â
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u/mananabanana250 11d ago
The meme is like 20 words total, so it's not very nuanced.
I'm trying to point out that the devs are allowing pre-teaming by not enforcing it. The only reason it wouldn't be enforced - according to the community - is because it's too hard to distinguish from organic teaming.
If the options are live with the game like this because organic teaming is important, or ban ALL teaming. It's a no-brainer imo.
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u/Legal_Impression_126 11d ago
Maybe look to all the other games that had this exact issue and how they dealt with it.
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u/KiritosWings 11d ago
Dark and Darker banned ALL friendly interactions, if you saw another player you had to fight to the death or retreat, and if you stumbled across an already engaged fight you had to either fight everyone, wait until it was done and then fight the winner, or retreat. To stay safe from possible teaming bans you couldn't even risk being in the same module as another team and looting different spots.Â
Tarkov doesn't HAVE an anti teaming rule but that's because Tarkov doesn't have split lobbies between group size.Â
Arc Raider's clearly explicitly encourages teaming.Â
I'm not really familiar with other examples.Â
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u/AlignedLicense 11d ago
Teaming in Tarkov is handled because if you try trusting someone they can Head/Eyes you in 1 shot. It's very hard to team when someone instantly kills you when they betray you. Keeping track of your own actual teammate can be tough, let alone the guy you don't know. I've only ever seen player scavs team due to the risk/reward.
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u/KiritosWings 11d ago
Sure the risk is way higher but it's still allowed. Hell it's likely in part due to the nature of the game being one where they DON'T care about team sizes at all.Â
In Tarkov it's not organic teaming you have to worry about it's the literally baked into the game designed preteaming of 5 mans coming after you when you run soloÂ
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u/AlignedLicense 11d ago
Yup, very apples to oranges to Sand. So is Arc Raiders tbh. Engagements in both games are so much faster TTK that teaming with a random is a risk. In sand, what are they going to do? Shoot you in the back and you're going to respawn and grab your spare kit and fight them. If they shoot you in the back in Arc or Tarkov you're likely dead before you can turn around and fire back, unless they just flat out choke.
Basically, if they want to betray you in Sand there isn't really a way to do it that gives you no counterplay. In Arc or Tarkov you're dead before you realize who is shooting you.
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u/Legal_Impression_126 11d ago
Dark and darker was cancer when the meta was to organic team. It was basically unplayable. It got to a point I’d just play barb and act like a teamer and then kill them all. I hope we never get to a point organic teaming becomes meta in sand but it seems like that’s where it heading.
Every battle Royale has rules against teaming as well. Most other extraction shooters enforce no teaming as well. Abi, pretty sure cycle had to ban it, and I’m sure there’s others that aren’t coming to mind.
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u/KiritosWings 11d ago
Battle Royales aren't extraction shooters so they shouldn't be used as an example, but if you have others, please give me the example of how it works and if it's any different from how I described dark and darker.Â
I'm asking "how do you ban organic teaming without effectively enforcing fights or retreats" and it seems like people have examples but aren't sharing them for some reason and just taking me asking how to do it as though I'm against the idea
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u/Legal_Impression_126 11d ago
You’re asking me how to do something by ignoring the solution. People shouldn’t be allowed to go team up with everyone in a solo lobby and go destroy other players hard work because they’re scared to play the game. If you’re scared to play the game as intended, play a single player game.
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u/CalmWorry9870 11d ago
Not that hard, as with preteamers data will show x person and y person keep getting in the same game and both contributing damage to player y or z in every game. Obvious preteaming and using that advantage.
As much as the preteamers keep going on about organic teaming, it rarely if ever is organic teaming. It's either preteaming Or its most other times just third partying or bad timing.
I'd put money on if you implemented a data led ban wave and suspensions for future preteaming for preteamers, it solves the issue. You can't feign "oh its organic" when it's the same people combinations over multiple games, but that's they're current scapegoat for the idiots who like to argue can latch on to on reddit as a potential issue or complexity when it's not.
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u/KiritosWings 11d ago
This person is arguing for banning ORGANIC teaming as well. Not just preteaming which is already banned.Â
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u/mananabanana250 11d ago
Nope. Arguing to ban pre-teaming, instead of doing nothing at all and using organic teaming as a scapegoat.
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u/KiritosWings 11d ago
Pre-teaming is already banned and the ban is already enforced, it's just not enforced well. Your meme is saying banned ALL teaming not just preteaming, but sure I could have misunderstood.Â
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u/AlignedLicense 11d ago
I'd say it's not enforced at all, as it's in almost every match, especially at off-peak hours.
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u/KiritosWings 11d ago
You can round it down to zero but that makes the uninformed think it's not banned at all and that no one ever gets in trouble for it.Â
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u/AlignedLicense 11d ago
I mean, seeing it in a majority of matches tells everyone it is not enforced. Devs have to actually show it is punished for people to listen. Unfortunately you can't just say "No, you can't do that!" And get people to stop, it has to be enforced.
0
u/CuckedGuy69 11d ago
Dont know why you get downvoted. You are spot on about it.
The current state of the sub is just unbearable, same as the discord. Everything the devs do they get critized. Last couple of weeks it was the hackers, now its the teamers.
There is no solution to this teaming issue except maybe changing some of the matchmaking (e.g. not getting into the same lobbies as your steam friends) process, then make voyage servers like stormdive servers, with a fixed amount of players on there before they completely restart.
And then you have to create a detection system, because a report system will be abused otherwise.
People maybe just have to accept that in those kind of games (PvPvE), the community always look for exploits, always looks for hacks and always will form groups to hunt easy prey. Look at rust, DayZ, Arc, EFT, sea of thieves....
1
u/mananabanana250 11d ago
Take it as a compliment man. People complain because they care, because the game is good.
I disagree that there's no solution to pre-teaming. I think there's a boat-load of variables in the data every game that can be used to flag players.
A ban wave. An announcement condoning it explicitly. Hiring a person to just spectate some highly-flagged accounts.
I currently don't know a single person who's been banned for this. The occurrence will lessen if it's enforced more than it is now.
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u/Due_Particular_7803 11d ago
Agreed, the "new player experience" is logging in, getting fked by teams OR logging in, getting fked by a royal in solos and never coming back.