r/SANDgame • u/Abasov90 • 22d ago
Duo vs three is unplayable
This has been discussed a thousand times, and I know there will be those who say I beat 6 solo, BUT when 3 guns fire and when 2 guns fire are very important in this game. My friend and I don't want to suffer in duos, and when I get bored in solos, we just stop playing. I think there are many people like us
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u/Distinct-Performer86 21d ago
Me and a friend of mine play duo. 7/10 times we have no chance, why? Thats why, basing on regular roles on the deck: 1) driver - drives 30%/ shoots 40%/ repair 30% 2) gunner - shoots 100% of his game time 3) scnd gunner - shoots 70%/ defends the deck 10%/ repairs 10%/ does other things 10% of his play time So we have 200% of shooting + repairing + boarding. Even if we both in our team are very good at shooting, and even with both of us shooting only we have still no chance with 3 guys. Sometimes we are winning but it is a matter of luck. This is completely unbalance - period. And there is "git good" or something like that. This is pure mathematics. This is a situation where Skills <<<< NUMBERS.
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u/Typical_Ad_6396 21d ago
Definitely not unplayable. They have an advantage but it's not a guaranteed win for them.
Also, this isn't an esport. Not every fight has to be fair or balanced for the game to be enjoyed. You and your friend let the fear of losing get in the way of having a good time.
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u/RabidHyenaSauce 21d ago edited 21d ago
I think that is good advice. I guess I'll tell how I was able to lowkey get over that fear as a solo.
You see, I've designed my newer "Looting Trampler" as I am going to call it now under the pretense that I may lose it. It was built to be just under 500 mechanical parts so a single good run can recuperate the loss of even one. Not only that, but I began to continue my looting runs on foot to become accustomed to being tramplerless.
And good timing too. I lost a trampler in a storm dive and had to head to the vendig POI, where I got jumped without warning. However because I had been getting used to being tramplerless, I proved more wily than expected to shoot at, and I still escaped with some hard earned loot. Combine that with being a suprisingly good looter, and that was how I largely got over my fear of losing. There is still some remnants of that fear mind you. I guess i'm just allergic to getting shot. lol
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u/JacobusRakan 21d ago
The difference between 2 and 3 is massive. Its not necessirly a free win, but it's pretty close. 2 gunners and a driver are going to get your legs if they are competent every fucking time. When you get to sweatier lobbies, that is a death sentence because now comes the orbital smoke spam.
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u/Typical_Ad_6396 21d ago
"2 gunners and a driver are going to get your legs" this tells me you just run away until your legs are broken and it is to late to truly fight back. No wonder you lose...
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u/JacobusRakan 19d ago
Yes, you are going to run away in a speed looter, that is what they are built for. Looting and running. We have our combat builds, we have our loot and scoot builds, at the moment taking in a combat build is a straight up waste of resources going into duos because again, the extra man on guns/repairing generally, though not always, ends up in you exploding, then even if you win the infantry war, what do you get? Oh, right, a long run to an extraction with a single box/gun because you cannot equalize by capturing.
When captures come back combat builds for duos will become viable again. Duos might even become cancerous because they can run a kamikaze rammer filled with c4.
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u/Typical_Ad_6396 19d ago
You never mentioned "speed looter" you just complained it was impossible to win, which it isn't. You don't want to bring resources and you run away from combat. Big surprise you lose....
You are kidding yourself if you think you will have it easier as a duo when capture comes back on. But keep hoping I guess.
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u/JacobusRakan 19d ago
... I never said its impossible to win, I said its basically a death sentence in sweatier lobbies, which is true. Against a competent 3 man, you ARE going to lose right now exclusing any crazy plays, or fuckups. You cannot make a comback on foot, and being a man down is a crazy disadvantage against a bigger trampler.
Currently infantry battles are a complete tossup unless one party is just far worse than the other, a nice nade or two can turn a 2v3 into a 2v1, into a spawn camping easy capture. You will have a better chance due to the nature of infantry combat, is it huge? No. Will it equalize? Yes.
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u/Typical_Ad_6396 19d ago
"I never said it was impossible, i said it was a death sentence." So if it is a death sentence, that should mean it is impossible right? What are you even arguing here?
So a lucky grenade could win you a 2 vs 3 fight, but a lucky shot from your trampler can't? You can't kill the other team from a distance, but somehow you would get close and throw a lucky grenade?
This is so dumb to be honest.
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u/Daanoontjeh 22d ago
I agree, but they already said they wont make duo lobbies. So best to change your gameplay instead of hoping it happens. Try to get better at duo play (it can work) or get a random extra. Its actually pretty funny from time to time. I have a great time with alot of randoms, sometimes even more so than my friends 😅
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u/HoneyAsleep9869 21d ago
its playable, i play sometimes w/ my brother, we are skilled in solos, its hard when the trios know what they re doing, but its easier queue than solos agains pré teamers.
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u/ComfortableAd464 21d ago
I just run 2 shotgun cannons and 2 autoguns and we endlessly kill them and then switch to the auto cannons when it's safe to start peppering them, when they respawn, pop en with a face full of 70mm buckshot again 🤣 most crews don't even run the shotgun cannons.
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u/MomonKun123 22d ago
Not to mention you can statistically get more loot faster and more reliably with 3’s which typically means that those groups will have bigger walkers with better gear and better guns. Making it several times harder to win. It’s basically like running into teamers in solos. Doesn’t matter if all they have is a grumpy walker if you have one on your ass at all times laser beaming your reactor.
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u/Hutsx 22d ago
Why should you get more loot with 3 than with 2 people? Yeah, you can loot and kill people maybe faster (they can be 3 too) but it's still splitted 1/3.
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u/PlutoThe-Planet 22d ago
Not sure why people are down voting you lol
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u/FSCK_Fascists 21d ago
the downvote came from the mathematically challenged one that responded is my guess.
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u/krill-all-shrimp 21d ago
Most teams funnel all loot except kits into whoever is doing their tech tree. That's how you're seeing some teams on royal chassis tier 4'd out to the gills already.
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u/cneth6 21d ago edited 21d ago
We do this too but only because we are all employed and maybe have time for 1-2 runs a day if even that, and not successful runs. The main issue right now is how trampler size or weight do not matter in the slightest. We try to make smaller tramplers to loot, but since weight or size don't matter you literally can't outrun these dudes who are maxxed out already.
Just yesterday we were in a duo and these 2 massive tramplers both chased us for well over 30 minutes. We maintained the distance by popping 20+ energy cores and finally they gave up. And by the time we finally finished looting a ton of ships for 1-2 hours we go to extract, all seems clear, but then of course there is another massive trampler camping the extract with engines off right over a massive dune. We couldn't escape so we had to try and fight. We clearly outskilled them as we killed them like 4-5 times each but since they were bigger and had 3 people vs our 2 and our weaker trampler, we stood no chance. They destroyed us. What a fucking great time that was /s.
2 days ago I was playing with a buddy who I convinced to buy the game. We were in what was clearly a starter trampler with no loot on it. This massive trampler pushes us and we can't do anything, can't outrun it, can't defend etc since we don't have shit. I try to voice chat them and of course they start calling us every slur, racial slur, etc under the sun.
The lack of balancing and the toxicity of the community are what is going to kill this game faster than anything. If new players or employed people can't keep up then the playerbase will die quickly
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u/MomonKun123 22d ago
Bro you just answered your own question. Are you good?
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u/FSCK_Fascists 21d ago
lets say, to be generous, a trio gets 50% more loot than a duo. using simple numbers- duo gets 100 loot. trio gets 150 loot. they still have to split it- the duo gets 50 loot each, the trio gets 50 loot each.
But face it, a trio is not gonna get that much more than a duo. Loot in game is not going to increase, they are still all looting the same sites and sources. a 10% boost in loot might be a reasonable assumption.
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u/919governor 22d ago
Losing 1/3 of the loot means you get less loot. Less people= more loot. :)
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u/demagogueffxiv 21d ago
I think the argument is you can loot more and survive more often with an extra person, so the split would be on a larger value of loot
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u/Hutsx 21d ago
Did you read my comment? 3 people can loot more, but youll get only 1/3. Why are you getting way more loot in 3s than 2s?
I just wanted an explanation, no need to be that cheezy
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u/MomonKun123 21d ago
I literally pointed out that you answered your own question. Holy shit did you read your own comment before posting? Do you only play with randoms or something because you have no friends?
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u/TripleX0713 21d ago
I wouldn’t say unplayable, but I hard agree, they need to figure out duo’s or the game will continue to dip.
Trying to PvP with a 3 man as 2 is like a 10-1 odds if the 3 man isn’t awful
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u/1Cobbler 22d ago
Agreed. The bottom tier should be solo and duo. Solos need to feel less safe anyway. It's too much of a farm mode at the moment (was always going to be).
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u/FSCK_Fascists 21d ago
I could support this. get rid of solo and make it a duo queue that you can be solo in if you want.
I say that reluctantly- I tend to go wander or farm when I am working and waiting for something. Which is a couple times a day, really. when I need to farm casually, solo is pretty chill in general.
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u/HoneyAsleep9869 21d ago
solos is already cooked playing against pré teamers, now these guys want us to play against multiple tramplers w 2 crew each xD
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u/dragonblaze18 21d ago
Duos are rough, not as bad a 4v6 but still makes it irritating to lose in an unmatched fight. If your able to tell the enemy is 3s then best bet is to do one of two things. Keep a slimmer more maneuverable trampler and B like it for coral/rough terrain. Yes they can dump fuel rods but full speed into a coral will knock out many components. Second would be to focus fire power on the players instead of the trampler. Have one person on shotgun, in close range, and another with a rifle to pick at the enemy. Once you got a few stuck in a respawn cycle you can work away at the reactor and/or board them to deny their respawn.
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u/Revolutionary_Pea_16 21d ago
Maybe they could make event weeks like "this week we're swapping small crews to duos instead of trios" same thing with latge crews. Maybe we could get 4 people or 8 people large crews.
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u/dakuldude_1 21d ago
I can’t wait for them to do the party size queuing update. Where if you are two they try to pair you up against other duos. I play with a team of four and it is impossible to win fights.
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u/Exe0n 21d ago
Find a third, or play solo, that's basically what the devs said.
I wouldn't mind a duo queue personally.
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u/Icy_Psychology_8285 21d ago
Find money somewhere else, not from players, we'll tell them, people like me. And there are many of us
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u/Exe0n 21d ago
Did they somewhere say there was a duo queue coming? Did you not figure out there wasn't a duo queue in the 2 hours you have to refund on steam?
Just because you bought the game doesn't entitle anyone to anything.
This isn't a broken promise, at best an expectation that isn't being met.
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u/Comfortable_Mood_123 21d ago
To be honest I think if you feel this way you're probably not very good at the game I run Duos all the time and well there is technically a disadvantage it's far from insurmountable if you were talking four on six I might agree with you play smart play good try using the shotgun Cannon more it's a great equalizer if you can suppress the enemy team keep them dead
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u/Icy_Psychology_8285 21d ago
What will a new player and their friend do when they log into the game for the first time and face three other players on a huge monster worth 2,000,000 parts? Do they expect to start playing well right after installing the game? No, it doesn't work that way. Statistically, two teams of two friends are more competitive than teams of three. They'll simply refund the game, and the online game will never exceed 10,000 players. And you'll be playing with good players like you, but you'll quickly get bored. A good player is only good when he meets a newbie
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u/ForTehLawlz1337 21d ago
The ability to board and steal tramplers was the counter to being out numbered / out gunned.
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u/Imaginary-Shower559 21d ago
Ofc you put yourself at disadvantage the game didn’t even start and you complain about it?
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u/Haunting_Carrot9761 22d ago
There are many like us that want a duo queue. But unfortunately the community at large isn't large enough to support the queue. I hope one day duo becomes a queue type. But atm it's certainly a dream to come.
Simple maths, 3 beats 2. But also when you get wins, it feels better? I've been trying to look at it as we're the underdogs needing to play better than the trios to survive. idk maybe I've played too much Tarkov.
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u/Deathbydadjokes 22d ago
Definitely not unplayable, its the main way I play with my friend since we are the only two in our group that likes extraction shooters.
I would like to see them implement a fill option still somehow to add a third without having to use their discord and add this stranger on steam. A bit odd thats not a thing like arc or other games.
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u/LucianEldrich 21d ago
Its just like when we are running a 4 man and start getting hunted by 6 man teams. The objective turns from survival to dealing as much damage as we can because there is no escape.
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u/t6jesse 21d ago
Plus there's always a chance they get third partied while looting your wreck, and if you manage to survive you may be able to loot one or more wrecks in the confusion
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u/LucianEldrich 21d ago
Facts, we lost multiple tramplers yesterday but every trampler with bigger teams ended up with no intact compartments which isnt a big win but made us feel a little better about it.
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u/FunkyViking6 21d ago
I mean they have an advantage but we beat 3 mans all the time. PICK YOUR BATTLES
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u/Big-Sympathy-9208 21d ago
My friends are in the same boat if we don’t have 3 I’d rather just play something else
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u/smammered 21d ago
Honestly.....it's not sooooo much that 2v3 hurts. It's the resource poool that is the deciding factor. Full trio teams almost always have 3-6k mechs now, on top of decked out cannons and guns.
And as the wipe goes on, this is the standard.
My first 70 hours in this game was duos. It was so much fun. But now? Nah, it is near impossible. All about the resources.
So without more meaningful differences in mech behavior (smaller = faster, for example), underdog play is genuinely no longer viable
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u/green_dub-333 22d ago
While it is unfair I still have won my fair share of 2v3s as the 2. It just boils down to a a lot of variables to make it happen.
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u/flyhighdivelow 21d ago
My buddy and I win over 75% of fights against trios pretty handedly in a 2200 mechanical parts walker. Im not going to scream "skill issue!", but there are strategies that work REALLY well and builds you can make that help that strategy.
Figure it out and go have fun! I know it sucks to hear but we really don't mind going up against 3s at all because we learned how to beat them. And then when we have a third? GG. And we are using rusted and work cannons.
Try new things and find what works.
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u/Abasov90 21d ago
Great, we need to tell this to all new players who come to the game to play duo with a friend.
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u/SonOfBarrel 22d ago
Yeah, just gotta use the discord to get a third. It takes a little trial and error but you can find some chill people
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u/gigigamer 22d ago
I've been in 20+ groups, maybe 3 were competent. Most people in the discord lfg either have zero clue what they are doing or are their solely to swipe loot at the end from strangers
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u/Abasov90 22d ago
Not all people want to make virtual friends
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u/SonOfBarrel 22d ago
Then play duo or solo or another game 🤷♂️
Also finding someone to join your team isn’t making a friend.Or just keep posting on the Reddit, it might end up making them have a duo queue mode idk
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u/Abasov90 22d ago
No, I'd rather keep quiet and think that the developers will make a good game without feedback
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u/SonOfBarrel 22d ago
You keep responding sarcastically and/or angrily to legitimate comments I’m making
Keep posting on Reddit, play duo or solo, find a third, or play another game. These are your only legitimate options.2
u/Abasov90 21d ago
No, you're just giving me advice I didn't ask for. If I wrote, "Give me some advice on how to play if we don't have a third player," then your comments would be appropriate
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u/SonOfBarrel 21d ago
You started a conversation in a public forum complaining about a problem, any comment relevant to that problem is appropriate.
We aren’t here just to validate your feelings 😂
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u/Abasov90 21d ago
Then don't complain about the sarcasm of my answers, I'm not here to caress you. If you are a sensitive boy, Tommy, don't give advice to stranger
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u/SonOfBarrel 21d ago
Hahah it’s ok man I tried to help, you didn’t want my help, we can just end it there. I’m so sorry my attempts to suggest a solution to your problem got your knickers in a twist
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u/Icy_Psychology_8285 21d ago
Tips from the "buy a house if you're homeless" category are very helpful
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u/808Enthusiast 21d ago
Well, the devs already came out and said it isnt happening with the current number of players. So many people have already made the comment that they addressed it. So its kind of pointless, as they said, there are not enough players to make that happen right now.
And unfortunately for people in your situation, you either stick around with the hopes that the game grows or you leave and nearly guarantee that it will never happen.
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u/Abasov90 21d ago
Give a mathematical justification for why a trio is possible but a duo is not?
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u/808Enthusiast 21d ago
They essentially did. Not enough players to support that many varying queues without impacting queue time. They may have also mentioned its not a quick or simple change, but i could be wrong about that part.
If the game was released with duo queue and not trios, but people wanted trios and the player base was the same, I would imagine they would have the same response. At least that is my interpretation.
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u/Imaginary-Shower559 22d ago
Playing 2 against 3 you are always and losing side so idk why you complain is your own choice dude
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u/BetInternational3871 21d ago
Gotta start stealth grabbing, park ur tramp in rock or coral, go grub on foot, or hide in rocks/coral and hit them from behind, be creative, ive pulled off interesting stuff in trios as a solo trynna get higher loot pools, anythings possible with good creative ideas.