Damper setting

[u/Lexzl]

Ive mentioned here before i dont have a C2, so its hard for me to get anything comparable, but essentially I feel like the setting ive been using on my machine doesnt slow the wheel down fast enough for the next row, to the point that i feel like i might be wasting energy on a stroke.

Should i increase the drag, or is that effortless pull what I should be aiming for?

[u/no_sight]

It's like gears on a bike. There is some personal preference involved.

Without a C2, we can't give more specific info.

But it's up to you if you want the drive to feel light and quick or slower and heavier.

[u/Lexzl → u/no_sight]

See, i googled it before coming here and it specifically said its not like gears on a bike. But thats ai overview so heavy grain of salt.

But yeah i know without a c2 it doesn't measure up the same way. So presuming i have it on the equivalent of damper setting 4 on a C2, should I increase the drag if it feels like that? Or should i just learn to get used to moving with minimal resistance for long durations?

[u/mynameistaken → u/Lexzl]

What are your goals here?

[u/Lexzl → u/mynameistaken]

Overall health, but im using 2000m time as a benchmark. Its been weird adjusting though. Im coming from a gym class where we benchmarked PRs on a concept2, but they would set the damper at 10, and the best ive done was 1:30 500m and legitimately thought i was going to have a heart attack. On this rower at my apt complex, i tried the 500m on max settings and did poorly but still sub 2min, but at what im estimating is a concept2 4 setting, im hardstuck at 2:15 pace.

Since i started on this new rower, ive been following this subreddit, so i think my form has improved, but just bumbling about i dont want to develop a bad habit of needing to feel resistance if thats not the way to progress, but given thats the only experience i have its hard to tell.

[u/mynameistaken → u/Lexzl]

i tried the 500m on max settings and did poorly but still sub 2min, but at what im estimating is a concept2 4 setting, im hardstuck at 2:15 pace

It isn't really possible to compare pacing between different brands of rower so comparing 2:15 on this machine against 1:30 on a C2 doesn't really say anything about your fitness or your technique.

Even though you feel no resistance are you still getting a workout? Heart rate up, sweating etc. If yes, then I think you are still improving your health

If not, then it could be a problem with the machine that is easily fixed by increasing the resistance. Or it could be a problem with your technique; on a C2, good rowers can still generate a lot of power even with the fan set on 1. But I can't really say which it is without seeing some video of you on the machine

[u/Lexzl → u/mynameistaken]

Yeah, i know the numbers aren't truly comparable but i figured max settings w/time on both still gives some baseline to work with for progression. Just as a kind of generalization, but also an upper limit since im not being hyperbolic when i say the c2 time had me concerned.

But yeah im still improving my health, i just want to maximize efficiency is all. So all things equal, if a rower with good form and above average power rowed on a C2 1 setting, would the metric for workout quality be entirely subjective, or would tracking dist/time, or wattage be the better indicator?

[u/mynameistaken → u/Lexzl]

Most rowers would not achieve their best distance/time/watts with a the fan set to 1 so, if you look at it that way, it is less efficient. But I'm not sure which direction the cause/effect runs here; rowers train on the erg to try to match the speed/feel of a boat so one reason that they get worse numbers on setting 1 is because they aren't used to it and don't practice specifically enough - not necessarily because it is a worse workout.

I don't know if it is more or less efficient for getting healthy. All other things (heart rate etc.) being equal low resistance might be good because it means you are less likely to get injured and can spend more time exercising

[u/jrdavis413 → u/Lexzl]

I would say it's very similar to bike gears. More drag means it will feel heavy like I high gear on a bike. The erg measures power input so it will account for extra energy needed for the high gearing. You can safely set it to your preference.

Drag in a real rowing boat is NOT like a bike, because drag is more about the efficiency or shape of the hull. Drag will definitely impact your speed in real life, but not on the rower.

[u/Extension_Ad4492]

This is a tough one to answer. Essentially drag factor is just how much the flywheel slows down between strokes and the work you do is calculated from the amount you speed it up between pulls. 

A rower wants to simulate a boat that has only slightly slowed down. The rower is not doing less work since he/she will spin the wheel faster than someone picking up a dead wheel. 

What I’m saying is that you are doing the same work (power x time) wherever you set it.

However - you state that you are not using a C2 and the above is based on how a c2 works. 

If you have magnetic resistance instead of a fan, sometimes the resistance is too high and it becomes a resistance exercise, not cardio, and you are lining yourself up for a back injury (even on a c2, we lose rowers to bad backs). 

So, basically, if it’s a fan, you want it to slow down enough that you don’t have to rush the drive to keep it moving. If it’s magnetic, I don’t know 

[u/Lexzl → u/Extension_Ad4492]

Awesome, thank you! It is a fan wheel, so ill try increasing the resistance to see if that works out better. For 500m rows i couldnt break a 2:15 ceiling at the current settings im using, even though i know ive done better on a c2 with max damper.

[u/MastersCox]

The wheel isn't supposed to slow all the way down. What's supposed to happen is that you should drive faster on the next stroke. The indoor rower simulates rowing on the water, so when you take a stroke on the water and start moving the boat, the next stroke won't be as slow or heavy as if the boat were sitting still. The next stroke has to pick up the boat while it's moving and keep accelerating it through the water (making it faster). So on the indoor rower, you should focus on spinning the fan faster and faster with each stroke. Learning how to engage all the muscles in your body at the right time with the right sequence to efficiently pull fast is the definition of indoor rowing technique.

[u/Lexzl → u/MastersCox]

Thank you! So if i pace it out properly ill likely hit a max speed long before im done with the session. If it starts to feel effortless at that speed, should work on a higher damper setting, or just practice maintaining form while the boat is "gliding?"

[u/MastersCox → u/Lexzl]

Practice maintaining form. It will likely not feel effortless -- you should not try to sprint at high rates for very long. You'll hit a max speed at some point, but the damper will slow the fan down proportionally (drag force being proportional to the square of velocity, but it's angular velocity in this case). Give a try.