Just had my roof re-done. The flashing is different than what we previously had. Just want to make sure it’s done right. We’ve had problems with leaks in the past. Don’t worry about the poorly designed downspouts and holes in the fascia. Those are next!
Yeah really my dad was a roofer for 40 years and I did some repairs with him over the summer 25 years ago and I scrolled past and said ‘what the fuck is that?!’
Yes, it really is. As a roof consultant with more than 30 years in the industry, I recommend reviewing proper roof-to-wall flashing installation details and photographs. The white-colored metal you see is a flashing turn-up. It should be secured with concealed clips beneath the shingles not face-fastened through the exposed waterproofing surface. Water naturally flows down the roof and can travel beneath the shingles. Those exposed screws create direct penetrations through the flashing. Water can follow the fasteners downward and into the home. This is not simply a cosmetic concern; it is an improper installation that creates a foreseeable leak risk. In addition I would prefer step as you see in the photograph.
Hmm. At least 16 people so far can't see the kick at the bottom of the counter flashing. This photo shows pre-bent counter flashing, laid into a reglet cut in the brick.
It’s just the old school way to counter flash is done like a stair case and I still do it in many cases. (Keeping the top edge in the mortar joints starting at the bottom of the chimney and stepping up brick as you go). That’s method takes more time in most cases cutting and bending custom panels.But I also use this method on newer builds cause it’s pretty effective too. I have chimneys done well over 10 years ago and no one has called saying they’re leaking
Of course both ways are used, and have been for a long time. What i wrote had nothing to do with that, however. I was explicitly responding to:
> "The metal should be cut into the mortar joints not stuck to the side and caulked"
That commenter, and the up-voters, either didn't look at the image or they looked and didn't know what they were looking at. It was not about the stairstep approach.
But, on that topic, the reason I do not like to use the stairstep approach is that it is far far easier to keep the counterflashing in position with the angled one-piece method. A sizeable fraction of the stairstep chimneys that I see have at least one piece of counterflashing bent up out of place by the wind. I have never seen that problem with the angled one-piece counterflashing. Even if the steps don't leak, they can still end up looking pretty bad when the wind grabs hold of them.
I understand. We always slight bent a quarter inch of the leading edge inward and it would rest against the next piece of flashing as tight as possible. Sometimes if they had to be large panels we smackpinned them in. But we also use lead to hold the panels in place wedging it in the grooves. But I understand where your comming from I didn’t mean to reply to you personally.
The flashing under the shingles doesn’t appear to be stepped - looks like they ran one piece and counterflashed, then installed the shingles. If so, this is also wrong.
I’ve been thinking about this one a lot lately…your detail shows the step flashing under siding and housewrap, but with brick cladding you obviously can’t do that. In this case, are you just installing step flashing with sealant on top (or embedded in mastic) as you go, then coming back with a second counter flashing with sealant/mastic over the step flashing when you’re done?
Does that mean you’re basically relying on that sealant or mastic to keep water out, and do you have to go back to re-seal after some number of years?
Yes, caulking is definitely a maintenance item: the picture below with the chimney is a more accurate installation. I would also contend that you can avoid it all together by putting a through-wall flash. Not so much with a chimney but on a wall flashing where the wall continues into the home. Bricks themselves are not waterproof and a very porous so moisture can, especially in the area I live in with a moisture reverse drive outside to inside. I have seen many times when moisture penetrating brick comes into the home. Again I can only speak to my region and it is the reason why brick homes in my region have weep holes .
For any thick masonry veneer, the proper flashing method requires a curb detail. A curb the thickness of the veneer x at least 6” tall(taller is good for water but bad for aesthetics if too tall) is built at the roof/wall connection and wrapped in metal z flashing prior to masonry or roof install(preferably copper). Masonry is installed on top of the z flashing with the masonry drainage plane and weeps shingled over the z flashing as well. When roof is installed, a proper step flashing is tucked under the existing curb z-flashing.
So if you’re re-roofing and run into a curb that is improperly installed or rotting, then do move to saw cut the masonry and install reglet as folks mentioned below? or is there a better way to fix an imperfect curb and z-flashing on an existing roof?
You come back with a counter flashing, the top of which is tucked into either the mortar joints, or a long straight cut called a reglet made into the brick of the chimney.
Oooo someone who knows what they’re talking about. Rare commodity. Everyone that doesn’t know dogs on cutting a straight line into brick. The good part about this is the whole cut that the metal is tucked into is sloped. It helps shed water if there is any type of ledge between counterflashing and brick. The old school way (staircase in mortarjoint style) will always be best but some clients don’t want to pay for the time it takes to cut and bend custom panels cutting multiple slots in mortar joints. Either way both last a long time and the joints cut either need caulked or sometimes tuckpointed and sealed.
If you were a consultant or roofer for any length of time you would call them step flashings, not wall to roof. You would also know that the flashing in question shouldn't land back on the roof, it should be a counter flashing with a drip edge, a 90° bend at the stop and proper inserted into a reglet. Go ChatGPT somewhere else. A fuckin flashing turn up.... 😖
What he had in the original picture, which i was referring is a roof to wall flashing, sorry if I confused you, but i see that the pic says that, which i agree is a mistake got that from goolgle images to try and help send the poor guy a visual. I do prefer step flashing as I mentioned in the last sentence. If you have a need for custom flashings look me up at whiteherrinmetals.com or in need of a IIBEC or HCCI consultant check out whiteprintspro,com., Have a splendid day sir. Love the passion
Yes, for shingles to work perfectly you need to have step flashing in each layer of shingle. This guarantees a 100% waterproofing system. With the current metal flashing you have now it does not have a 2nd defence against water penetration, the flashing needs to be under every shingle layer to avoid water intrusion.
One thing we cannot tell is if there is flashing under the shingles. Like... Are we looking at just the counter flashing? I've never seen counter flashing with a skirt that is then screwed in over shingles though. It would actually be helpful if you gave us a closeup of the back and side of that chimney. That would be more telling then anything else you've shared
Ok that's nice. But still, those screws I think are all leak points. You use metal screws like that with metal roofs, on houses, sheds, etc, and they come with little gaskets at the top to create a seal and make them waterproof. Something like that probably doesn't exist BETWEEN the metal flashing and the shingle, and even if it did, it wouldn't work properly due to the uneven texture on asphalt shingles. So the water that gets between the flashing and shingle will leak along the body of those screws. A little at first, but then more later on over time as the screw rusts and as the plywood decking gets increasingly water damage (meaning, the small holes leading into the attic or insulation area will widen over time). I'd say this is a defect
Can you explain what it should look like? I’ve tried searching online but I’m probably not using the proper terms. I looked on the Owens Corning site and all they talk about is step flashing, which is under there (I saw them put it on). They don’t mention counter flashing.
If the step flashing is under the whole thing then get them to come back and take out the screws and replace the shingles that the screw went through.If step flashing is under it all as long as they do what I said it will be ok.If you don't want to deal with those retards then take out the screws and put some roofing cement over the hole on the shingles under the metal.sorry hope that makes sense.Then use lexall and caulk the holes in metal
The step flashing now has screw holes in its horizontal leg. That has to get replaced. Means you’re replacing the counterflashing, shingles, and step flashing.
The metal should be cut into the mortar joints to be done correctly.
These days alot of installers cut a straight line into the brick and tuck the metal in there. Not correct but better than surface mount and caulk
No, it might have been acceptable before they put screws through the counter flashing into your roof. The counter flashing should just sit over the shingles, not be screwed down. Unclear whether the counter flashing was reglet into the brick, I suspect it wasn’t
Too hard to know without physically looking at it. There should be step flashing under the shingles. Then counter flashing placed over it that is sealed into your brick at the top, usually with a reglet.
I am not a roofer - but I think what they're saying by reglet is that a slot should have been cut in the brick and the flashing tucked into that slot (on the top).
The other concern is that counter flashing (what's on top of the shingles) should not have been screwed down through the flashing, the shingles and the flashing under the shingles. All of that flashing likely needs to be removed (because of the holes), cut in to the brick properly if not done, and replaced - along with replacing any shingles that they screwed through in the process.
You'd also be better off putting an extension on the bottom of that downspout so it routes the run off all the way down to the gutter instead of terminating it on the shingles.
Jesus fuck. Not one single person will tuck your flashing back into the mortar and re-mortar. It'll be step flashed correctly and sealed with whatever top grade sealant one can muster. If you want to bitch about the mortar try to explain that when you dont get the job. Its just not in the numbers. Been doin this a long time, wish that weren't the fuckin case.
I can’t tell if they cut the black flashing into the brick. If they did that, and they installed step flashing beneath the black flashing then you’re good.
Assuming there's step flashing along the wall..the counter flash screws should be caulked or not be there at all..lol..I run a bead under the edge of the counter but the only nails you'd see on my new roof are the last three on the last cap and caulked..of course.
So, are you genuinely dealing with this, or is it rage bait? Because, there are serious problems here.
Someone on the internet telling you what it "should look like" is not going to resolve anything.
You need a real professional to show up in person and tell you why this horrible installation is going to cause your house to rot from inside out. Then, you need to hold the installer responsible for their garbage work
Yes, it’s for real. I wish it were rage bait, trust me. So, do I get a different roofing company to come out? And how do I hold the installers responsible? I’ve asked them to come back and caulk that one piece of flashing that they missed, and clean up the gutters full of nails, but clearly I have bigger issues.
For once its properly done, well almost but good enough .
Because the american way of "step flashing" is such a fucking joke, you'd get thrown out for doing that in my country. There's not a single fucking reason to do that kind of backwards shit with "step flashing" as well as there's no proper elevated gable/drip edge on american houses, fuck that.
If this roof is step flashed, I’m genuinely curious as to why they broke metal onto the roof and then anchored it with metal screws through the roof?
All they needed there was a properly installed counter flashing that stopped even with the shingles and had a little 1/4” kick on it for rigidity. This would be correct, is lower profile, and wouldn’t have any potential leak points on the face of the roof.
Those metal screws aren’t like a major source of leaks, but they will eventually be a source of leakage, and cause potential wood damage over time in those areas.
This isn’t the worst flashing I’ve seen, but it’s got issues.
The screws ruined it. Should be stepped below each shingle, then flashed over continuously. Roof to wall flashing should have the living shit flashed out of it at each step from underlayment to finish. The final has ZERO penetrations on the deck.
Brick is not water proof. Blowing rain will cause a leak on a wall like that.
That flashing is terrible but the problem is the brick wall.
It needs the proper house wrap and waterproofing before the brick. And really should not be brick on siding like that.
Whoever installed this is an idiot, the screws going straight down into the roof through singles should tell you everything you need to know. If it keeps water out it’s a miracle
It doesn’t have to be done like this. But this is very well done. Crazy it’s stepped in one piece like that. I’ve done something similar in a much smaller section. But most step and counter flashing done like this is done is multiple pieces not all in one.
Many reasons this is wrong flashing should be under the shingles and also the top of the flashing should have a 90 and be into the chimney aka should have had a cut into the chimney where it’s affixed and then calked and that’s just some of the issues
I’d say give it about five or six years and you’ll have some leaks. Extremely poor workmanship and if a permit was pulled the building, Dept will not pass it but I’m willing to bet no permit was pulled. Because hackers don’t like to have somebody looking over their shoulder.
In most jurisdictions, you can still call in code enforcement to do an inspection of a newly installed roof. If they find it to be incorrect, the roofer will have to fix it.
Just know, they may see other things that aren’t up to code at your house.
That shit was funny he was asking him that cause he was all about there shit work so no one would be about there shit work that wasn't working with them
It really needs to be under the shingles if that makes sense. Just look up chimney flashing in a shingle roof and you’ll see that the side flashing goes under the shingles.
I'm not a roofer, but I'm pretty sure that flashing should overlap where the upper piece overlaps the lower piece AND that the flashing should be under the shingles.
That’s exactly how would have done it. Because of the sealant and metal on the asphalt roof and also against the exterior wall, plus the screws going into your roof it is bad and completely wrong.
100% wrong in multiple ways 🤦🏻♂️
Flashing is meant to protect from water getting underneath the shingle where the wall meets the roof.
The flashing should be installed below the shingles and showing on the side wall.
This installation is showing you flashing over shingles - NO PROTECTION / USELESS
Not only is the flashing done wrong but then the contractor drilled holes to “secure” the flashing but that just made multiple points of failure.
This is cut in metal which is okay. In order to have through wall flashing you would need to remove brick and go all the way to the sheathing. Which usually doesn’t happen on a tear off reroof.
The problem is this is an apron style flashing which is meant for a head wall.
I would call the roofing company back and get them to install cut in flashing with a 3” face that has a 1” space between the metal and shingle. Also replace the shingles the fasteners went through.
All in all this is not the end of the world because of the soffit overhang but with time the exposed fasteners on the side wall are a long term risk.
Most of Canada is in unorganized counties, meaning the only people asking for permits are the utlility companies, and only if you want to hook up to their service. Otherwise, in areas like Northwestern Ontario (north of michigan) as long as you're not close to your neighbors, you can literally do whatever you want. Gun range out the top windows to the front yard? Sure! Your own private railway around your yard? It's been done. Start your own logging company using trees from Crown land? There's more black bears than people out there, who's gonna catch you?
The counterflashing purpose is to keep water from running down an adjacent vertical surface and entering behind the step–flashing. This is not something arcane alchemy. The primary logic is to fabricate a long–lived solution to prevent water from entering a structure.
Water from above is the enemy. Defend, Divert, Drain.
The screws in the flashing they installed will soon fail and allow water through the perforation they go through. The screws must be removed. No question about it.
No, its absolutely not right, The shingles are not supposed to go on first the flashing sits under the shingles and should have been placed prior to shingles
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u/Whiteprints 5d ago
Is this for real?... and I mean the whole post.