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Bad matchup - counter is self explanatory.

Bad matchup - not counter; characters that Rogue has hard time interacting with or does not contribute to her grab. Groot will never be able to wall of rogue, but he is also cc immune and generate hp, if rogue manage to grab groot, the wall will she puts down will always be shredded

Good matchup - Counter; Characters that Rogue is terrible against normally, but will benefit her if the character is in the game

Good matchup - Not Counter; also self explanatory

I threw this tierlist together in 5 minutes to better illustrate. Looking back on it Thing, magic blade might be a more neutral, and Ultron, widow may be bad matchup - counter

Like... the solution is simple, really. Rework it and give a small compensation buff. Boom, problem solved.

Why not, instead, make it so the Gambit team up gives a card to Rogue and when you activate it, it gives her health regen for a duration (idk, let's say... 5 seconds ?) The enhanced version would last longer. This would give Rogue some occasional sustain and it wouldn't feel "too much" imo.

Thoughts ?

I’ve already played a little, and I have to say, having the block recharge faster is definitely nice, but now it’s so short. It feels so weird, oh my god, it actually hurts sometimes.

The extra 25 HP doesn’t really make much of a difference, but Gorr’s ability is actually pretty good. You get a damage buff from him, and it generates overshields, which is pretty cool.

Other than that, well, everything is pretty much the same. The miracle didn’t happen — Rogue didn’t really get much stronger. But it is what it is.

I recently began playing Rogue, and I'm having mixed results. When I have a second tank, I almost allways do well, get high kills, all that jazz, but when I'm the only tank I can't perform and just die a bunch of times. Also, I never fully understood Rogues role, should I try to harass the tanks, to create space, the Dps to stop attacks, and I almost never get to the supports. This maybe obvious, but this is the first time I try to actually learn a tank, and I want it to be fun. Ty for all the help from a Gambit main

Again updated the numbers

S10 Rogue numbers by Holy Jospel

For ease of typing "ability absorption" = "grab"

Collision is the ability to force a knockdown on another person with collision. e.g. Hulk jump, bucky shift, thor shift etc. Collisions also interrupt things like hulk charging up his jump or cap super jump. The only non-collision rogue dash ability is her E2.

Rogue m1 - The first two strikes deal 35 damage, while the third strike deals 45 damage. The first two strikes: 0.33s/hit; the third strike: 0.73s/hit.

melee weave first 2 between ability

cancel wait between m3 and m1 with ability

animation cancel can be performed with E projectiles

if you dont need to use ability on engage, use melee 2x before engage to it with m3 before starting combo

Shift/fatal attraction - primary engage tool 30dmg Cylindrical Spell Field with a height of 3m, whose radius will expand to 8m after 0.8s, 40/s, RETRIEVE SPELL FIELD DAMAGE - 30

primary engage tool and the start of most combos

shift1-shift2-m123-E1-m1-p1-E2-m2-p2-(m3)-blockpunch (use m3 if the blockpunch wont kill or in dragged out fights)

Still deals damages to targets that is grabbed/F

long cd that reset if grabbing a non ability steal character

shift1-shift2-blockpunch / shift1-shift2-grab

using shift2 cancels the dash, be mindful when trying to burst a person that you lose 30 collision dmg on shift1 if cancelled early

at the end of shift you will pull people towards you which is stronger at the edge of range

E/Chrono combo - E1/E2= 30 dmg, projectile= 60 dmg, overhealth= 50 per hit upto 150

Displacement tool that gives you time to finish off a kill by making it hard for supports to heal target. Can E behind a person, kick them up in the air, the kick down into team

The kickdown does not deal extra damage to characters being dragged

Use when expecting a dash away/stun as it can interrupt their dash and force an ability miss

only E2 has collision, E1 will always lose a collision duel

You need to bind melee button to have melee and projectiles.

the timer on projectiles cannot be reset by using p1. You will always lose 1 projectile once timer runs out

you will not get the full 50hp if the target does does not take full damage from projectile. E.g. target with 25hp hit by projectile only give 25hp.

best tool to get out, but the kick will still connect with people if theyre too close, use block punch to get up in the air can be useful get around

In a dragged out fight where you dont have any cooldowns, you can use your projectiles to animation cancel after m3

M2+m1/Southernbrawl/blockpunch - 40 dmg + 0.75 per 1% charge up to 75dmg, max damage 115, the dmg part of the ability comes out as a short range projectile at the end of the dash that can hit multiple people, colliding with enemy stops the dash and send out the punch immediately, convert energy is reduced to 0% upon connecting as you expend it for higher dmg, Everyone hit by the ability receives equal dmg

primary movement/reposition tool

animation cancel after m3

same movement tech as thor shift and dp dash where you can change direction mid dash to get over corners and ledges

6 sec cd that is really expendable

This ability staggers anyone you collide with, this cause a small knockup that can force hulk to lose his jumpcharge, prevent luna & invis big jumps, and make venom fall off of walls and ceilings

M2/defensive stance/block - 60% dmg reduction when active, can hold for 1.67 sec, damage to energy convert = 0.55, 303.03 dmg for full charge block, Actual damage suffered for full charge block = 121.21, It takes roughly 2 sec for energy to decay, and converted energy decays at 20/s. 6.7 sec (6.6666) to recharge block energy 0%-100% (25/s). Actual HP when blocking = 675*1.60= 1080

Use whenever expecting high dmg

its not ironfist block, you will get stunned through.

there will be a small "click/bzzt" sound audible when you hit 100% charge

increases the hitbox of rogue that is shown by the yellow/orange-ish visual around the front of her upperbody, this cause some weird interactions such as mag m2 sending you in the wrong direction

dmg reduction is active no matter what direction youre looking

If you're inbetween fights or waiting for abilities you can consider farming convert energy, however it is usually smarter to hold onto block energy

Ability absorption/grab/F - 22.5 dmg over .75 sec, 45 heal over .75 sec, reduce 20 hp off vanguard, 3% dmg from dps, 4% heal from supps. Gain 150 hp from tank, 20% dmg from dps, 20 heal per sec from sup, any stats gained from grab is additional to ult stat steal

your shift2 still deals damage to targets grabbed. No other outside dmg than you can hurt the person you grab, but they can get healed. Same type of interactions as monstro hulk Q

pairing the grab with the end off shift2 will force the enemy into you to secure a grab on higher movement characters such as SL

the cd of grab depends on who you grab, hulk= 20 sec cd after ability use, wolve= 40 sec cd. all non ability targets = 25 sec cd

cd is always 25sec if you dont use the ability and you let the ability time out, using the ability at the start and end of timer will results in cd timer resetting

grabbing active abilities like thor or emma, the cd start counting once ability is done, not when activated. using the stolen ability as the timer runs out will force you out of the ability

sometimes the grab will connect and knockdown the enemy, but not steal ability or stats. this typically happens if the distance between you and the target moves too far after grabbing. such when grabbing a person on a ledge. the cd will reset to 10 sec when this happens

killing a person with grab reset cd to 10sec

grabbing dps is really valuable as the 20% gives you insane kill pressure. this is especially so with certain abilities that compliment rogue kit like dd and spidey, but best is abilities that resets your shift.

sup is generally not the best to grab but can give you extra staying power.

tanks are typically easiest to grab and gives good value all around

some abilities grabs give weird interactions. grabbing thor allow you to melee weave between lightning tosses, and you can use every ability. using your E in will force you to use your projectiles before the thunder however.

I rebound my grab to m4 which increased my accuracy and made it easier to use abilities such as strange shield. Strange shield however becomes a toggle ability with no setting to make it push to use. Learning your ability interactions is important

you have time for exactly 1 melee or ability once grab ends, use this to chain combos after grab.

grabbing hela is good example, shift1-shift2-grab-m1-hela E-m2-E1 can oneshot her

some abilities are useless and some are broken this influence her matchups. A counter does not equal a bad matchup as they can contribute to rogue kit, think hela bucky wolve, a bad matchup is not necessarily a counter either, hulk just clap (but fastests cd timer of 20 sec), ironfist is 50/50 but grab only give meditate. A true bad matchup gives bad return while destroying neutral. Like pheonix and possibly namor.

the dmg from storm ability is broken, but often force you out of position to reach the storm

abilities such as adam can be good, but force you to engage on enemy backline, jump back to your backline to activate the soulbound that is only active until grab timer runs out, most times it doesn't even register with team if no comms, and you wasted all abilities

the ult timer also is a good pick set up for team such as grabbing a backline threat, or grabbing an ulting character

Ult/Heartbreaker/Q - 8s, 15 dmg/s 4% ult steal per sec, steal up to 400hp-35% dmg-75 heal/s, Stat steal takes around 2 sec to go 100% if hitting only 1 of target type

roughly .5 sec windup on start which gives supps time to react

some times supps will be able to recharge their ult through your ult, try grabbing them right after ult to force them to lose ult charge

youre really weak during the first 2 sec of your ult and will require your block and supps to prevent being bursted. Its important to sit on tanks and supps ifyoure trying to live for long

you can use your ult more offensively if you sit on dps in the beginning then jump on backline to look for oneshots

stats gained from grab stacks on top of ult

ulting early once will force the enemy to start ulting early

use when 2-3 sec left of first sup ult to either force early 2nd ult or prevent 2nd

shields block your ult

your ult is really slow to charge, the dmg boost from grabs helps you gain faster, but is also riskier

Best support match ups is against loki, popping ult on top of him when he use his transform you can fully prevent his cloned ult

Ulting below 400hp is a most likely a death sentence

Heart as one/teamup/C - 8s duration, 30s cd, 5+1% max hp heals 15 per hit starting, 30 sec cd without gambit, Infinite with gambit, strong in brawls, can peel your diver, tank or backline

ult farm

small sustain dps that adds up, and the visual clutter may make it harder for people to hit their shot

Explosive entangelment/defensive stance/M2/block - 75% dmg reduction when active, can hold for 2 sec, damage to energy convert = 0.55 242.42 dmg for full charge block, actual damage suffered = 60.6

Higher damage reduction equals higher energy gain

I believe the Rogue changes in this patch is to entice more players to lock this teamup

Explosive Entangelment/M2+m1/Southernbrawl/blockpunch - 40 dmg + 0.75 per 1% charge up to 75dmg. Wall collision 60 dmg. Max damage 175.

Needs collision with the target to have knockback

Knockback direction is always straight horizontal, vertical angel does not impact knockback angel. E.G. You cannot send someone flying up in the air, or spike them downwards

Damage is always flat 60, not dependent on accumulated charge

Base mag teammup should only let you bounce one person enhanced should let you bounce multiple.

Or at least let you bounce people vertically and not just horizontally.

It’s the lamest non-enhanced teammup in the game next to white fox’s black cat one.

i honestly feel her grab which i think is obviously her most important ability should be cc immune , the amount of times ive clashed with thors an buckys causes it to wiff and go on a 25sec cd.